VikingTrad3r

Hey, well, I know this is absolutely zero consolation for you, but I am right there with you and I just finished waking the path you may be about to embark on.

Yes, it is possible that the system is hydrolocked..BUT..i hope not. you could pull the plugs out and turn it over. tape some white paper across the spark plug holes.

if there coolant /wayer in the block it will mist out and wet the paper.

then you will have your definitive answer as to if you have a blown gasket.

mlm0

Did you do the work yourself?

bsstaats

I am not completely sure whether or not your problem has already been solved as I did not read all of the posts. But I myself had the same problem a few days ago. You most likely have what is called a vapor lock and need to "burp" the radiator.
First start with a cold car.
Turn the window defroster on high.
Turn on your car on.
Remove your radiator cap.
Allow coolant to bubble as car heats up
Eventually your upper radiator hose will be warm to the touch
Allow coolant level in the radiator to keep lowering
As coolant flows through the engine and the air is released the radiator will seem like it's emptying
Keep topping of radiator fluid
Continue process until car has been at temp for several mins.
Fill radiator all the way to the top
Have friend step on throttle. Or pull the linkage. Raising the RPM will lower the coolant just enough to allow you to put the cap back on.

That's it. It really isn't that hard. The problem is that air and vapor is trapped in the lines not allowing coolant to flow. When the car heats up the coolant expands and it is pushed into the overflow. This makes it seem like you are losing coolant but it really is not being allowed to leave the radiator in the first place. This may not be your problem, but it is common. You know if you have a vapor lock if your car is at temp but the upper radiator hose is still cool and squishy. Hope this helps.

VikingTrad3r

sure did. even decked the heads myself.

edit, well I may have physically done the work myself, it was the guys here on this board that got me through it!

mlm0

Thanks for input, problem not solved. Coolant is not being pushed back and forth between radiator and reserve

bsstaats

I would try "burping" it. Only takes 10 or so minutes and buddy.

Stephenms

Check for coolant coming from the "bypass" hose that goes from intake to (I believe theottle body?) it's been so long since I've replaced that one. Heater lines (metal and rubber), water pump weep hole, the tiny line that goes from rear of lower intake to heater pipes. Take the upper radiator shroud off and check for cracks. If you're feeling froggy replace the radiator cap with an OE cap, none of that fancy locking cap stuff; if you haven't already. I sometimes use large sheets of either transmission drip pans or sheet metal and paper towels over it to find leaks of all kinds. I'd do a pressure test again to see for pressure drop. Or let the vehicle run a little over running temperature to see if that radiator is cracked. My bypass hose used to leak a lot, check to make sure your hose mounts are clean of grime and residue so it will make a better seal. Make sure the threads on your knock sensor are good, coolant temperature sensors, just about anything that goes in a water jacket. Coolant leaks can be one of the simplest but scariest things to diagnose, especially when you don't see it leak. For all you know it leaks when it's pressurized and moving down the road, you'll never find the leak.

I've been using the spill free system for years and never had an issue. It trades air pockets for coolant.

mlm0

Today I drilled two small holes in t- stat, filled with coolant and drove car. Low coolant light came on and off. I have parked car to let it cool down to see if it will pull coolant into radiator I wil do this several times and see what happens. It this does not fix it, it has to be head gasket no matter what test showed. Also if I let car set for several days, it does not want to crank, as though something is catching the starter. It makes loud klunck. After numerous tries it will finally work, engine fires, lots of white exhaust for a while, then clears up. Not oil or gas smoke and temp outside is 80 degrees

If it's gaskets, I will have to attempt the repair, or car will set or be sold for parts. I'm not paying someone 3500.00 to do both gaskets. My wife does not believe I can do it, and she is more then likely right, but no other choice
Car only has 50,000 miles on it and everything else is perfect

desertmike1

This problem has the tell tale sign of a leaking head gasket, if you crank the engine over with Antifreeze leaching into the Cylinder's over time, there is a risk of Piston/Rod Damage. I would let it set as you described for a day or two, and then remove All 8 plugs, and then Crank it over while observing for a Mist or Spatter of Antifreeze being ejected from the Cylinder plug holes.

Prepare your self for the High probability of a leaking head gasket or two. I know this will suck big time but it's not a terribly difficult project, just time consuming. Cost will vary depending on Head[s] condition. You may get away with less then 5-600 bucks, unless you need a bunch of tools and this could drive the cost up.

This Forum could walk you through the process for most all of the information needed.

I wish you luck!

VikingTrad3r

couple things,

0. stop turning over the car if u think u r hydrolicked!! given u have already done it, do a compression test after you have done the paper mist test.

1. setup some whte paper over the empty sparkplug holes before you crank it over. it will catch the mist for u to onserve and smell

2. even if it is the head gaskets, dont stress too mych if u have the time and space, overed, warm, to do the job. u can do the job VERY inexpensively, including "decking" or "milling" your own heads for 50$.

3. here is what my 87 hose looked like. it was the original gm overflow hose. i relaced it with fuel line grade hose. i was getting same thing. low coolant with a full overflow that wouldnt return fluid.

lots of crud in there. ill do a flush when my 85 is done and out the door. <br ><br >


cracks were 3/8 into the hose. <br ><br > both ends were horrid. <br ><br >

mlm0

Would I already know if I hurt my engine by cranking it over. How would I know if I bent or hurt something?

hcbph

Here's just a couple of thoughts/comments.

There is an adapter you can get for a pressure testing kit. It's nothing more than a short piece of pipe with both ends like the neck of the radiator. Put the cap on one side and the tester on the other and you can pump it up and see if it holds at the designated pressure.

If you suspect a blown head gasket, you can get at it with a bore scope and look inside the cylinder and see if there's fluid also if it looks washed down or not. Might also look at the sparkplug condition. I'd start #7 as most people say that's the most problematic one in the engine.

Here's something you can do to check the additionally. You need an adapter that fits into the plug hole, a gauge, shutoff valve and an air chuck. Try to get the cylinder at the bottom of the bore, adapter in place of the plug, pump up the cylinder and shut off the airline. Keep an eye on the pressure and see if it holds or not. If not then it's likely there's a blown head gasket if the piston hasn't moved since starting the test.

Just some thoughts, hope it might help.

mlm0

I'm almost sure I have blown head gasket, just don't know which cylinder I hope I haven't hurt something because of starting it with coolant in cylinder causing hydrolock at times. Thinking back, I believe that the reason it locked sometimes and not other times was because of where the piston height was at when I shut off engine and how long it sat between start ups, determining how much coolant would be in cylinder at start up.

VikingTrad3r

compression test is the answer. do a compression test and u will know if u have bent something and if u have a blown head gasket. easy test.

mlm0

Don't think I hurt anything, there is no knock, only happened at cranking, so there was not that much pressure on rods. I am going to start the project on Monday in my garage. There is no rush, so I plann to do it in stages so I don't get stressed out. I have FSM and will bag all parts and label. I changed a head gasket several times on an old 1961 rambler about 45 years ago by myself in Alaska, outside in weather. Keep telling myself, I can do this

VikingTrad3r

sounds like you've done lots already and you will be just fine. All the paraphernalia of the air system is just a pain in the ***, other than that it's very straightforward and even then it's not that bad if you bag and tag as you say

mlm0

After I have heads off, can't I just measure from the top of each piston to deck height to determine if I have bent rod? All Pistons should come up to same measurement, right?

VikingTrad3r

that sounds like a very smart and practical plan. If you were to bring each piston to top dead center you could measure it with the caliper the depth from the deck of the block

desertmike1

Yes! you would need a fairly accurate Micrometer depth gauge. The Deck/Piston will need to be cleaned of any Carbon build up, and the deck cleaned of any old gasket material..

Did you remove the spark plugs yet?

any sign of moisture on the plugs, or Vapor/mist being ejected while cranking the engine over is a dead giveaway of a leaking gasket, as well as any sign of a spark plug being; Steam cleaned. Look at my #6 plug, this happened when I blew my LT1 gasket.

mlm0

If I find that I do have bent rod, can it be straighten? If I have to buy new Rod can it be fitted on same piston and not have to replace rings or connecting rod to crank bearing, I don't want to pull engine and have machine work done. I was just thinking that compression test will not tell me if Rod is bent, because I have blown head gasket anyway After heads are off, I plan to use magnetic based dial micrometer to determine if all Pistons rise the same when engine is rotated. Will I most likely be able to see the area where gasket is blown once it's removed? Sorry for so many questions, but I'm new to all this. I'm hoping what I have read is correct, that being that a hydrolock because of coolant in cylinder causing the engine not to rotate is not enough force to bend Rod. What I don't understand is why after several times of trying, it would all of sudden start cranking and start up. Tommorrow I am going to pulled plugs, tape paper towel over holes and try to determine just which cylinder or cylinders are affected before I pull heads