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I called a trans shop and he said the chances of finding a 700r4 that would fit in my 85 vette were slim to none.
I told him i had this one dropped out and he didn't seem to change his viewpoint.
then he told me to bring mine in for a full rebuilt to the tune of 2500$.
lol. not happening so i'll continue working this over and eventually get it out. then i'll replace/rebuild the pump, get a new tc and re-install.
one of the more seasoned guys i spoke with said that it sounds like it got very hot and there is a plastic part that melts into the snout of the torque converter and locks it in. I have no idea but i'll find out.
im considering attatching it to the hitch of both my trucks and pulling it off. I saw it done on a youtube video which i thought was really redneck. but now i find myself needing the method myself lol.
Don't know that it might influence your decision but the "9TN" tag on your transmission (from your other thread) and what looks to be the 3 pressure taps on the case might indicate it's a '82 transmission as the 9 indicator in the trans code was used in both '82 & '89 BUT it's thought most '89 builds were void the pressure taps. The "casting flashing" through the cooler line area is also missing so it's certainly NOT an AUX VB build which might be another hint of the earliest 700R4 builds.
How many "updates" were used in the rebuild if it were the earlier production might be difficult to tell except maybe the spline count for the converter. That certainly needs to be considered.
If you were to shop a trans you certainly want an AUX VB build.
On the case rail RH side there's likely the stamped code of the original build to further confirm it's source.
from reading other threads on here my understanding is that up to and including 84 was 27 spline. Whereas, 85 and up our 30 spline?
Perhaps they updated it. When I get the tourque converter off we will know.
all I can say is I wish it was the original!
I did see a number stamped on the pan rail but it was very faint and I was unable to read it. I will try again to read it in better lighting conditions.
This transmission was much tighter and smoother than my 1987 tranny. But this transmission always locked up the tour converter so early that it chugged the engine because it was not up to speed enough. I have since learned that this was probably never a mechanical issue, as in these cars the lock up is controlled by the computer. So either the computer was seeing that the vehicle was moving faster and had higher throttle and higher speed or, it was simply set to lock up the tour converter at two low of an RPM/engine speed.
My guess is even with a new torque converter and a new rebuilt transmission, I will find that the computer sends the lock up signal just as early as before.
Thanks for all your help good thing is is not my daily driver!
she has a re-done engine all tight and sealed nicely, and when I'm done the transmission will be the same. Thank you all very much.
Originally Posted by WVZR-1
Don't know that it might influence your decision but the "9TN" tag on your transmission (from your other thread) and what looks to be the 3 pressure taps on the case might indicate it's a '82 transmission as the 9 indicator in the trans code was used in both '82 & '89 BUT it's thought most '89 builds were void the pressure taps. The "casting flashing" through the cooler line area is also missing so it's certainly NOT an AUX VB build which might be another hint of the earliest 700R4 builds.
How many "updates" were used in the rebuild if it were the earlier production might be difficult to tell except maybe the spline count for the converter. That certainly needs to be considered.
If you were to shop a trans you certainly want an AUX VB build.
On the case rail RH side there's likely the stamped code of the original build to further confirm it's source.
it was definately locking up second. it "felt" like it was immediately shifting to "third". before i knew what a torque converter lockup was that was what i thought it was.
one thing i cant sort out based on your information sharing is,when i unplugged the tcc solenoid, the lockup ceased. problem gone.
however i learned after i did that, that problems will arise when a lockup designed 700r4 has its tcc lockup unplugged. the trans shops i called said it would have overheated in OD and the planetary's would have starved for trans fluid.
included are pictures of the valve body. does this help in identifying what type of valve body setup (like from a diesel? I confirm it was locking in second (3rd and 4th) as soon as it shifted into those gears. but from what you wrote it seems that me disconnecting the tcc electrically from the ecu should not have had any impact if it was a diesel system? my understanding of this is evolving quick and sorry if my terminology is offbase.
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Originally Posted by DaveP85C4
A 9TN is a 1989 transmission used in C-series pick-up with a 6.2 Diesel. The TN is first listed for MY 1986 in my source book. My anecdotal observation has been that the pressure taps were present well into the 89 model year.
I've noticed your comments regarding what you regard as an "early" TCC lock-up. Now that your trans is ID'd as a Diesel app trans, I have a thought, particularly if the lock-up was occurring in 2nd.
The 6.2 Diesel was a non-electronic engine. It did not have an ECM that could control lock-up. The TCC in the Diesels was hydraulic. You can identify a Diesel valve body by four large bore plugs. The electronic TCC valve body only has three large bores. Also the absence of a TCC solenoid in the bottom of the pump (passenger side) would indicate hydraulic TCC control as well. The TCC will lock-up soon after TC signal oil becomes available when it shifts into 2nd. Diesels have good low-end torque, and can tolerate early lock-up. TPI 5.7's, not so much.
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9tm3 is as much as i can make out here. appears to be ground off<br ><br >
do ALL parts of the tranny receive FILTERED oil only? or is it only the valve body that gets filtered oil?
the vehicle shifted fine, and gears all worked perfectly.
the metal u see here is all from the torque converter exploding and then it appears that it shaved plenty of metal off the input shaft. my guess is, the input shaft is supposed to be equi-diameter throughout its length??
i now have two issues, the early tcc lockup issue, which went away after i unplugged the tcc lockup
and
a whole crapload of metal that was in the pan.
as u can see we cut open the filter and it had caught everything. which is why id like to know if the tranny gets filtered oil. if the planetarys were lubricated with fluid after it had been ejected from the tc, with all these shavings, the writing is likely on the wall. if however, the tc is the last stop before returning to the pan, i might be allright.
thoughts please!!
this came from inside the convertor <br ><br >
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this was the only way to get it off. <br ><br >
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grooved and worn. the fragged parts were in this area. i assume this was supposed to be 1. smooth and 2. the same diameter??<br ><br >
I believe that it's actually a 9TN on the rail and would match the "label". The only concern is that you don't want to reuse it (unless you disassembled and inspected closely) and it's the only reason I pointed out what I thought the lack of the AUX VB external case identifier and the '82 (I thought/still do) to be a very early case. You had mentioned buying parts so I only wanted to alert you to the very early input splines etc that needed to be confirmed before buying anything.
If you elected NOT to repair that trans I mentioned shopping hard in your flywheel thread.
The VSS (mechanical drive) on most 700R4/4L60 didn't change to the 40 tooth (electronic) wheel until '94. Corvette for sure. A short shaft anything 4L60 through '93 is no problem (other than Corvette you need to trim the output) and the later with the reluctor wheel I believe actually have the locating hole for the mechanical drive gear after you swap your extension housing.
Internal wiring of the later VB to the '85 requirements I believe are done frequently.
I have the combination of 30 and 27 splines here they are:
front pump input shaft splines:
big:27 splines
small:30 splines
rear tailshaft: 27 splines
does this tell us that we are dealing with the internals of an 85 or earlier?
Originally Posted by WVZR-1
I believe that it's actually a 9TN on the rail and would match the "label". The only concern is that you don't want to reuse it (unless you disassembled and inspected closely) and it's the only reason I pointed out what I thought the lack of the AUX VB external case identifier and the '82 (I thought/still do) to be a very early case. You had mentioned buying parts so I only wanted to alert you to the very early input splines etc that needed to be confirmed before buying anything.
If you elected NOT to repair that trans I mentioned shopping hard in your flywheel thread.
The VSS (mechanical drive) on most 700R4/4L60 didn't change to the 40 tooth (electronic) wheel until '94. Corvette for sure. A short shaft anything 4L60 through '93 is no problem (other than Corvette you need to trim the output) and the later with the reluctor wheel I believe actually have the locating hole for the mechanical drive gear after you swap your extension housing.
Internal wiring of the later VB to the '85 requirements I believe are done frequently.
im considering attatching it to the hitch of both my trucks and pulling it off. I saw it done on a youtube video which i thought was really redneck. but now i find myself needing the method myself lol
Before you go the redneck route.
Try fabbing up a plate to your TC to attach a slide hammer.It will give you alot more control than yanking it off with your truck.[/QUOTE]
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wanted to follow up on this incase anybody else has a similar failure and finds this thread.
i pile drived the trans and got nowhere.
i tryed prying it out and got nowhere.
(all this is understandable when you see what was inside the was causing the jamming)
the only way for me to get it off was to use a tow strap around the torque converter. they have a nice wide band and we accessed the rear of the torque converter from the top down so the band was almost centered.
then we put the extension housing / cbeam bolts back in the other end and used "wratchet straps", 4 of them, placed on the top and bottom of each bolt. we were unsure how much force would be applied and in case one of them snapped, we placed an old sheet bundled up over the tailshaft housing so if one snapped, there would be no flinging back to the rear end of my denali xl.these setups where run to the hitch of two vehicles. left the one attached the the tailshaft stationairy with parking brake on, and pulled with the torque converter side. it came off with a gentle throttle push. very easy. i was mad at myself for not doing it earlier after so many hours of trying other things. the key is to be gently and use these soft straps.
also, the trans was placed on a piece of plywood, so if it did move at all, no scratching would occur.
then we used corks to plug the holes, wrapped the 2 electrical plugs with tape, and used degreaser to clean. then i used eagle 1 mag cleaner to clean up the case even more. its not real pure aluminum! not surprising.
anyway, just wanted to followup here, the solution turned out to be very easy, fast, and gentle on the trans. no big deal. it turned out to be very un-red neck and a very viable solution.
thanks all for your brainstorming on how to get it off.
Last edited by VikingTrad3r; 05-02-2016 at 02:05 PM.
the trans was shifting excellently, no noticeable issue OTHER THAN THE TC LOCKING UP EARLY and ofcourse the noise which we now know what was causing that.
which WENT AWAY when i unplugged the power to the tcc solenoid.
the current plan is for me to "clear the bench" and dissasemble the trans, folliwng a video series on youtube. i will inspect the components to see if i have metal throughout the trans. if not, great.
at this point, we have a confirmation that i need:
1. new tc
2. new input shaft
probably a pump.
i was going to pull the valve body apart and see if it has metal inside it. if yes, then i was going to clean it all up and put it back together with any parts that are damaged replaced.
going to inspect all metals for pitting etc.
the question remains though. WHAT WAS CAUSING the TC to lockup so early?
i have an 87 and its tcc lockup is not even noticable. no chugging or lugging because it engages higher up the rpm band.
something was not right with the tc lockup.
my research tells me it is either:
1. messed with tune, programmed to set tc lockup earlier.
or
2. could the tv assembly be getting some blow by due to metal scoring which would allow line pressure to build up in the tcc line system which would make it lockup early?
my understanding of this is not good enough so i do not know if the TV cable setting could affect the tcc lockup.
Cheers all.
Last edited by VikingTrad3r; 05-02-2016 at 02:14 PM.
Did you make mods to the car? Have you gained more hp and more torque?
we have not made any mods to the car. i just rebuilt the top end of the engine and it was all stock so no HP gains from there.
i can tell you that the previous owner was younger than me and he said he did lots of tire spinning and he was told the previous owner to him that the tranny had a shift kit installed.
Too late now, but it would have been nice to have cut one of the wires going into the transmission connector that commands tcc. When my car was on the road, I hooked up a manual switch on the console to this wire and I had complete control over the lockup of the converter by connecting it to ground (in fact I still use it to lock up the converter at the drags). This way you would be able to determine if you problem was the wire going into the tranny being grounded or something hydraulic within the tranny.
edit: or is there a way for me to swap the tailshaft and black box thingy? then repaint and install.
Hey guys. what do you think of this. buy the "rebuilt" 700r4 in this ad, then i gut it all and swap it over to my case which i know fits into my car. the guy said this is a 30spline as well.
this seems like a good price as the cost as it is less than the cost of a torque converter alone up here. one problem is that this case has a black box on it. not sure what that is but its not the same as mine. thats why im thinking just swap the internals over to mine.
Too late now, but it would have been nice to have cut one of the wires going into the transmission connector that commands tcc. When my car was on the road, I hooked up a manual switch on the console to this wire and I had complete control over the lockup of the converter by connecting it to ground (in fact I still use it to lock up the converter at the drags). This way you would be able to determine if you problem was the wire going into the tranny being grounded or something hydraulic within the tranny.
Last edited by VikingTrad3r; 05-03-2016 at 10:51 AM.
That looks to be an -e transmission with the connector on the right and the VSS also on the RH in the extension. Swapping internals? You need to rely on what the seller says is done. I believe you'll have issues with the pump from an -e trans. I believe if you plan on using yours then you need a pump from a prior to AUX VB build. I've not messed with AT "parts builds" for quite some time.
Get the information off of the side pan rail and check the original build. See if there's any identification on the converter with it. If the trans is rebuilt customarily a converter is part of the build so there's likely identifiers on the converter.
I'd think "maybe" almost any Astro/Safari earlier than '93 maybe that ran and drove. Got to be I'd think many of those around. THINK and MAYBE!!
If you have a JY that inventories their transmissions in a building maybe a walk through and ID what appears to be a Corvette build with the correct extension. You don't need to mention you're shopping Corvette just 700R4/4L60. Maybe?
i have found a 86 vette trans for $650. its 3hrs away from me but my wife would be thrilled to make the day trip to see her university friends.
the trans is from a wrecked 86 with 25k miles on it and has a broken tailshaft housing from the crash supposedly.
i have the tailshaft from my trans here.
the "claim" is that it works fine but how would they know now especially after a wreck that somehow cracked the tailshaft. id be more inclined to think the trans fell onto a concrete floor.
anyway, the price is right, it would be a 30spline (right????) and it would put an actual corvette trans into the car rather than whatever the heck this one was that grenaded.
i have found a 86 vette trans for $650. its 3hrs away from me but my wife would be thrilled to make the day trip to see her university friends.
the trans is from a wrecked 86 with 25k miles on it and has a broken tailshaft housing from the crash supposedly.
i have the tailshaft from my trans here.
the "claim" is that it works fine but how would they know now especially after a wreck that somehow cracked the tailshaft. id be more inclined to think the trans fell onto a concrete floor.
anyway, the price is right, it would be a 30spline (right????) and it would put an actual corvette trans into the car rather than whatever the heck this one was that grenaded.
price is good. i can live with it.
comes with the torque converter as well.
You know what needs to be confirmed for it. I believe an '86 needs to be either a 6YC or a 6YA (there may have been a 6YD in the mix also) on the rail. If it's said to be original the converter should be able to be ID'd also. If the extension is broken that's maybe not unusual. It would depend on the "hit" in the collision. It's not unusual for a side hit on a wheel to crack/fracture the rear differential where the C-beam bolts on and the extension housing suffers the same damage frequently also. It's overlooked often. In '86 the M for 700R4 was added to some transmission codes. I don't believe all but likely many. I didn't realize until today that the TCC solenoids were different for 2.59 & 307 axle ratios. Never needed one but noticed another application.
I'd think the price is likely very negotiable/or should be. Can you confirm the crash miles from DMV records? If NOT then I'd think the price very negotiable. Snapshots? You know what's needed.
its an 86 vette trans but no way to tell if its good
ok its a 6ydm. that confirms its a 86 vette trans.
no way to prove the mileage of 20000 miles as they dont have the vin of the donar car.
he said "trust me".
they have a 90day warranty, so if i install and it doesnt work i can get a refund but boy id be pissed.
bottom line is i dont think im willing to risk it for more than $400 . even then if the fluid is dark and if crud comes out of the torque converter i would pass.
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Originally Posted by WVZR-1
You know what needs to be confirmed for it. I believe an '86 needs to be either a 6YC or a 6YA (there may have been a 6YD in the mix also) on the rail. If it's said to be original the converter should be able to be ID'd also. If the extension is broken that's maybe not unusual. It would depend on the "hit" in the collision. It's not unusual for a side hit on a wheel to crack/fracture the rear differential where the C-beam bolts on and the extension housing suffers the same damage frequently also. It's overlooked often. In '86 the M for 700R4 was added to some transmission codes. I don't believe all but likely many. I didn't realize until today that the TCC solenoids were different for 2.59 & 307 axle ratios. Never needed one but noticed another application.
I'd think the price is likely very negotiable/or should be. Can you confirm the crash miles from DMV records? If NOT then I'd think the price very negotiable. Snapshots? You know what's needed.
For around $500 with a warranty, I don't think you can go wrong. You will be supplying the labor, so that's no cost, just a few quarts of fluid and a new filter. I would open the pan and look at the old filter and the goo around the magnet. If there are any solid parts, you can pass. If it's just fuzz, that's normal and go for it. The more you do this, the quicker you will get.
For around $500 with a warranty, I don't think you can go wrong. You will be supplying the labor, so that's no cost, just a few quarts of fluid and a new filter. I would open the pan and look at the old filter and the goo around the magnet. If there are any solid parts, you can pass. If it's just fuzz, that's normal and go for it. The more you do this, the quicker you will get.
i agree. in the meantime i have a local 700r4 available for $100. he says it ran fine and took it out because he is doing an ls swap.
the pan rail number is:
6mkm
above the panrail on the horizontal part there are the numbers:
cgf799950
problem is has no torque converter. there is a local set of 2 torque converters that a guy will sell me for 30$
so, technically i could buy this one, cut the shaft 5/8", swap the tailshaft, stick a cracker jack prize inside ! torque converter on it and see what happens.
or pay the $500 and have a vette trans and have the same chance of it working.
04-30-2016, 08:48 AM
