STEVEN13

Hello,

I have purchased a used but new P600B and would like to run it with E85 with no intercooler or meth inj. I see in the other forums (C5 C6) that they are running large injectors over 60lbs. My question is how large of an injector can I run with the stock batch system and still have it idle okay. I understand that I will need new pump(s) also. Just wondering if this is even possible to do.


Please-For this thread I would like to stay away with how bad it is to run E85.

No need to talk about belt slip-Have purchased Greg@BlowerWorks ATI damper with the 8 and 6 rib provisions. Will try to make my own bracket to have the SC have a dedicated belt.

The car is stock with LT headers, 1.6 rockers, 6 speed, and 9" solid axle. Street driven and taken to the drag strip. Not looking for anything crazy in regard to power. Was hoping to make 8 pounds of boost.

Any information is greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
Steve

Kevova

There are some who believe in E85 over running race gas do fuel cost. To run E85 you will need to upgrade fuel system to use it. E85 is not compatible with most of it. You will need to burn at least 30% more E85 vs gasoline. If it takes 45 lb injectors for engine to run with Procharger on gasoline you would looking at 60lbs. IMO I would not do procharging and E85 with a "chip" type PCM. I would go toward a stand alone or later reflashable GM system. I would not want to trial and error with "Chips"

BrianCunningham

Greg@BlowerWorks should be able to set you up with a system.

Need to get the larger injectors, then have it tuned.

Mine is a MAF car, so I'm getting away w/o having a 2 bar MAP
You may need one on yours.

bjankuski

It is possible possible to run E85 and get it to run fine with the stock 1993 computer. My estimate is you will be around 450 HP with 8 lbs of boost on a stock engine, ,maybe slightly more. A 48 lb injector should be fine. I was running E85 in my 406 making 480 RWHP and the the 48 lb injectors worked well. I was also running the Walbro 485 fuel pump and stock lines and never had a problem. Tuning will take some time but is possible to get done well. You should use a 2 bar map sensor and use half the actual injector rating in the tune and then adjust your VE table to make it work. 50 KPA will actually be 100 KPA and that will allow you to tune the car for boost, since you will not be able to go over 100% VE with this computer.

STEVEN13

Greatly appreciate all the responses!!


Thank you-Great information.



Yes. I have been in contact with Greg (he has been very helpful). Great information. Thank you.

This is very helpful. Looks like it may be possible for me to do this without a I/C or Meth.

This is the information I was hoping to get. Thanks again. If I am able to get this to work I will post my results. For more info on my car. It made 289 RWHP with 1.6 rockers, LT Tri-Y headers, and tune. Best ET 12.96 I will be taking again to the track with my Alum Flywheel (if nothing breaks). Will start on SC install this winter (have most parts)

Steve

STEVEN13

Would it make sense for someone like me who does not know anything about tuning to consider getting a (self learning) stand alone system.

Thanks again!
Steve

Kevova

It depends on the person. If you like to tinker on cars why not? There is a lot of information out there along with opinions of the different systems. IMO I would do research on it, search other forums for other car running similar engine package. Go to drag strip, cruise nights, or car shows, try to find other people running non oem efi and see what they say and recommend.

STEVEN13

Thank you!

qwiketz

you should likely be okay with 60's but if it were me, I'd buy the 80's and be done with it permanently. I am also running the walbro 465 and I had issues with it being too much with the stock regulator, so be ready to buy an aeromotive unit.

I'd like to do the whole e85 thing someday down the road. I'm going the chip route currently and hope to tune my car using real time data through Greg at some point.

SELLC

I understand, but could you please help me to understand why, after going thru the trouble of installing a Pro-Charger; would you use E85?

I'd also suggest inner-cooling. I just had to re-align an ProCharger P1-SC kit on a Mustang last month. Someone messed up the spacing on the bracket which caused it to eat belts every few months. After properly aligning the unit, installing a new tensioner and idler pulleys, everything has been fine for him. I suggested him to use Premium fuel to avoid any possibility of pre-ignition, which with the high heat of a supercharger and the load it puts on the engine, is a very good idea.

I guess you got your reasons, I'm just curious what they are.

qwiketz

Do your research. There is a very good reason we don't do air to airs and that is because they become nightmares more than they work on c4's. Most people run into cooling issues.

STEVEN13

Thank you for your response.

From what I understand the 60's may be the max with the 1992 computer in regard to idle quality. I am okay with upgrading the fuel system. This will never be a high HP goal (max 450-500 crank HP)

I will data logging with the help from Greg too.

Thanks again!
Steve

STEVEN13

As qwiketz stated.

Also the piping is many hoses and clamps which IMHO does not look good. I was wondering if I was to use the air to air intercooler-Would pieces from a C5 kit work (with some modification) or just modify the C4 parts (ie: fab up complete pipes to eliminate the hoses).

Thanks,
Steve

qwiketz

Using E85really helps you add timing and is very detonation resistant dute to the octane level. If you're not going to be leaning on the car too hard then he probably should be able to get to that part level even without the e85 . I have seen a stock displacement for vortech t trim set up make 412 at the wheels on pump. That car was daily driven and didn't self destruct. There are a few things that you can do in the tune to add safety margin.

SELLC

Wow! E85 is actually 100-105 octane! Did not know that! Learn something new every day! That's pretty neat!

But the E85 is still much less powerful than gasoline drop for drop, isn't that right?

SELLC

Yeah, I can see why the piping could be problematic on these cars. Still I find that SuperChargers in general pretty much hog up a lot of under-hood real estate in just about every car that I see them in.

I guess the octane factor on E85 is a bonus, but the fact the fuel is less powerful is probably the reason it's more stable and resistant to pre-ignition.

In the Mercedes forums there were the WVO guys (Waste vegetable oil), these guys were IMO, a little crazy. They would stalk most all restaurants for the oil, then they would have to strain it and go thru this big process to get it prepared for use... Then in the winter they would have to mix it with Diesel and other stuff to keep it from turning into Crisco! LOL, I just could not see the fascination in it!

At least with E85 you can get it at the pump, and now I understand the Octane benefit! Pretty cool, much cooler than straining cooking oil!

I myself like Nitrous, for all my force fed performance desires. But I work on most all of them, so I never feel like I'm missing out.

bjankuski

It is less powerful drop for drop but you use 33% more of it when the engine is running at stoick or WOT so when you factor in the additional fuel burned it actually produces more power then gasoline. The power difference with all items being the same (other then the amount of fuel being burned) is about 3% on the plus side for E85. If you build the engine to take advantage of E85 then you can get more then 3% additional for E85 fuel over gasoline.

qwiketz

Sounds like you have some fun learning to do . I'm definitely not trying to be a jerk or anything but the C4's are very unique in their needs as far as forced induction . I came from the world of mustangs with the Vortec s trim to t trim and pro charger D1r. I found that the Corvettes are a bit more of a challenge because of the limited front area for the inner cooler. Methanol injection will get you quite a ways at these Limited horsepower levels . If you really want to make a big numbers and you have to notch a frame, use a huge harmonic balance and use a huge fuel pump and fuel injectors. LT one engine's are not efficient. Yes, you could go bottom nine's with the LT four head and a Y SI but it's got take a huge amount of fuel . In this case for someone trying to make about 450 hp, I think that can be done pretty simply.

Sorry to go off on a rant but I'm working on my car trying to make this heap of **** work ! I'm also a little grumpy because I've been on this form for 11 years and I still haven't gotten nine 's!

STEVEN13

All good-Thanks! I think for my goals this will work. I have also been in contact with Greg@BlowerWorks. He has been encouraging!

SELLC

Hang in there brother! If it's 9's you want, it's 9's you'll get!