why so many dreams of putting heavy iron lsx truck motor in c4
10-02-2016, 08:57 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
why so many dreams of putting heavy iron lsx truck motor in c4
im not sure why i keep reading these posts about trying to get an iron 5.3 or 4.8 lsx truck motor into a c4.
the c4 is a sportscar. i would be trying to put in a lighterweight alum block lsx - or no lsx at all.
ported afr195 heads flow the same as stock ls3 heads so you could easily swap out stock l98/lt1 heads for little work. put a better intake on the l98 while you are at it.
its also my understanding that an iron block lsx motor weighs more than an iron block ltx or small block chevy.
for those with optispark woes, try using a quality oem part, not some made in china crap.
the c4 is a sportscar. i would be trying to put in a lighterweight alum block lsx - or no lsx at all.
ported afr195 heads flow the same as stock ls3 heads so you could easily swap out stock l98/lt1 heads for little work. put a better intake on the l98 while you are at it.
its also my understanding that an iron block lsx motor weighs more than an iron block ltx or small block chevy.
for those with optispark woes, try using a quality oem part, not some made in china crap.
Last edited by dizwiz24; 10-02-2016 at 09:24 AM.
10-02-2016, 09:30 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
10-02-2016, 09:41 AM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
you have to ask the right questions. if it comes in a tattered box that looks like its been sitting around for years, then yes thats probably a genuine oem.
if they advertise they have 50 'new' ones with the grey opaque cap (where you can see the electrode paths), then no thats prob a mexico//china one
most newbs though dont want to pay $450 for a genuine nos one vs $60 for a cardone one.
and then come here to rant when there $60 purchase didnt work out so well
10-02-2016, 09:57 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Yes you may get lucky and find a NOS unit and then again you may not. You could play the odds and not find a NOS unit for months if you find one at all. On top of that, it takes a lot of effort to replace the OPTISPARK in the first place.
Point is
1. How much longer do you think those NOS units will be around? Once the NOS units are gone then they are gone.
2. How much longer do you think the aftermarket will even produce "cheap" replacement units that are used on only the LT series engine and only produced from 91-97 on specific GM cars?
3. There are other items on the LT motors that are no longer supported or soon to be non supported like the water pump drive gear assembly. Oh and lets not forget ancillaries like transmissions. For those of us with the ZF6, try to find replacement parts or even a DMF and clutch replacement. How about a doug-nash 4+3?
The OPTISPARK is merely a small piece to the overall larger obsolete parts puzzle. I get the desire to move to an LS motor as parts are more readily available and it has a much larger aftermarket following. If that LS happens to be a 5.3 or 4.8 then so be it. Usually that decision is based on money at the time and any LS can be upgraded across the board as they are all based on the same architecture.
Point is
1. How much longer do you think those NOS units will be around? Once the NOS units are gone then they are gone.
2. How much longer do you think the aftermarket will even produce "cheap" replacement units that are used on only the LT series engine and only produced from 91-97 on specific GM cars?
3. There are other items on the LT motors that are no longer supported or soon to be non supported like the water pump drive gear assembly. Oh and lets not forget ancillaries like transmissions. For those of us with the ZF6, try to find replacement parts or even a DMF and clutch replacement. How about a doug-nash 4+3?
The OPTISPARK is merely a small piece to the overall larger obsolete parts puzzle. I get the desire to move to an LS motor as parts are more readily available and it has a much larger aftermarket following. If that LS happens to be a 5.3 or 4.8 then so be it. Usually that decision is based on money at the time and any LS can be upgraded across the board as they are all based on the same architecture.
10-02-2016, 10:49 AM
#5
from what i read on thirdgen from some lq9 swappers,
iron head l98 is a wash, aluminum head l98 is lighter than lq9 6.0 by 60lbs.
the obvious answer is $$
iron head l98 is a wash, aluminum head l98 is lighter than lq9 6.0 by 60lbs.
the obvious answer is $$
10-02-2016, 11:21 AM
#6
Race Director
Thread Starter
Yes you may get lucky and find a NOS unit and then again you may not. You could play the odds and not find a NOS unit for months if you find one at all. On top of that, it takes a lot of effort to replace the OPTISPARK in the first place.
Point is
1. How much longer do you think those NOS units will be around? Once the NOS units are gone then they are gone.
2. How much longer do you think the aftermarket will even produce "cheap" replacement units that are used on only the LT series engine and only produced from 91-97 on specific GM cars?
3. There are other items on the LT motors that are no longer supported or soon to be non supported like the water pump drive gear assembly. Oh and lets not forget ancillaries like transmissions. For those of us with the ZF6, try to find replacement parts or even a DMF and clutch replacement. How about a doug-nash 4+3?
The OPTISPARK is merely a small piece to the overall larger obsolete parts puzzle. I get the desire to move to an LS motor as parts are more readily available and it has a much larger aftermarket following. If that LS happens to be a 5.3 or 4.8 then so be it. Usually that decision is based on money at the time and any LS can be upgraded across the board as they are all based on the same architecture.
Point is
1. How much longer do you think those NOS units will be around? Once the NOS units are gone then they are gone.
2. How much longer do you think the aftermarket will even produce "cheap" replacement units that are used on only the LT series engine and only produced from 91-97 on specific GM cars?
3. There are other items on the LT motors that are no longer supported or soon to be non supported like the water pump drive gear assembly. Oh and lets not forget ancillaries like transmissions. For those of us with the ZF6, try to find replacement parts or even a DMF and clutch replacement. How about a doug-nash 4+3?
The OPTISPARK is merely a small piece to the overall larger obsolete parts puzzle. I get the desire to move to an LS motor as parts are more readily available and it has a much larger aftermarket following. If that LS happens to be a 5.3 or 4.8 then so be it. Usually that decision is based on money at the time and any LS can be upgraded across the board as they are all based on the same architecture.
however i am not going to put a heavy iron block lsx truck motor into my sportscar.
im gonna go alum block ls3. i dont care if the heavy iron truck ls motor can be bought for $3k cheapr
Last edited by dizwiz24; 10-02-2016 at 12:34 PM.
10-02-2016, 11:54 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
AFR heads are $$$ compared to something like ls3 heads which I have seen for sale for $400 for a set. On the street the iron block weight wouldn't be noticeable. How much does an iron block aluminum headed gen 1 with an aluminum intake setup weigh? That's another thing: those composite manifolds are dirt cheap, are dry, and weigh way less than gen 1 performance intakes.
LS is just better. All the parts better. I love gen 1 stuff too but it cost more $$$ just to get one to base LS power levels. Gotta love those LS engine management units too as it's dirt cheap and lots of room to tune it with. Do some hot gen 1 fuel infected motor then you gotta shell out big bucks for an aftermarket efi system to run it. Unless you're one of the handful of tuning wizards who can make a 427 sbc pull 6800 off a stock 165 MAF, you're shelling out more money for engine management that can get the job done right the first time.
A little boost on a 5.3 goes a long way. I used to have my doubts about the LS train versus aftermarket but when you rack up a build bill on a gen 1 and cross shop the LS stuff, it's almost a joke.
LS is just better. All the parts better. I love gen 1 stuff too but it cost more $$$ just to get one to base LS power levels. Gotta love those LS engine management units too as it's dirt cheap and lots of room to tune it with. Do some hot gen 1 fuel infected motor then you gotta shell out big bucks for an aftermarket efi system to run it. Unless you're one of the handful of tuning wizards who can make a 427 sbc pull 6800 off a stock 165 MAF, you're shelling out more money for engine management that can get the job done right the first time.
A little boost on a 5.3 goes a long way. I used to have my doubts about the LS train versus aftermarket but when you rack up a build bill on a gen 1 and cross shop the LS stuff, it's almost a joke.
10-02-2016, 12:49 PM
#8
Team Owner
i agree a swap to an lsx (modern computer, none of the optispark hassles) makes a lot of sense and will be what i do next.
however i am not going to put a heavy iron block lsx truck motor into my sportscar.
im gonna go alum block ls3. i dont care if the heavy iron truck ls motor can be bought for $3k cheapr
however i am not going to put a heavy iron block lsx truck motor into my sportscar.
im gonna go alum block ls3. i dont care if the heavy iron truck ls motor can be bought for $3k cheapr
10-02-2016, 01:30 PM
#9
Safety Car
A 6.0 truck with factory alum heads weighs about the same as a sbc with alum heads and it can make great power with a cam change. In the end the cost to power ratio probably goes to the ls1 engine, with similar weight. If you go to an alum ls1 then the weight is also less.
Last edited by bjankuski; 10-02-2016 at 01:31 PM.
10-02-2016, 06:09 PM
#10
On the other hand, in some cars it will upset the balance. Like say an RX7, that was not designed for an iron block V8, you will notice the car push more in turns. It was even more pronounced than I thought it would be. I've had both an LS1 and an iron 5.3 in the RX7, and you can definitely feel the difference.
10-03-2016, 01:23 PM
#11
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
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St. Jude Donor '05
They make power easy
Super strong blocks
Still dont know where all these cheap deals on em are still cost bux out here. Remember the cost of EFI or if you carb the MSD youre still married to that.
Like the bigger ci ones GMPP sells a 454 lsx crate thats about all youll ever need with all the stuff ready to go conttollers harnesses no tuning etc
Super strong blocks
Still dont know where all these cheap deals on em are still cost bux out here. Remember the cost of EFI or if you carb the MSD youre still married to that.
Like the bigger ci ones GMPP sells a 454 lsx crate thats about all youll ever need with all the stuff ready to go conttollers harnesses no tuning etc
10-03-2016, 01:48 PM
#12
Still dont know where all these cheap deals on em are still cost bux out here. Remember the cost of EFI or if you carb the MSD youre still married to that.
Like the bigger ci ones GMPP sells a 454 lsx crate thats about all youll ever need with all the stuff ready to go conttollers harnesses no tuning etc
Like the bigger ci ones GMPP sells a 454 lsx crate thats about all youll ever need with all the stuff ready to go conttollers harnesses no tuning etc
Last edited by 5.7LSleeper; 10-03-2016 at 02:20 PM.
10-03-2016, 01:53 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
If I remember, there is only an 18 lb weight difference between an L98 and an iron block LS. The LS engines are incredibly stout in stock form. I've done dozens of builds. There is very much a reason people are swapping them into everything.
For example, the aluminum 5.3 in my Nova cost me $800 complete with wiring, accessories, ECU. I put in a small 218/218 cam with .570/.570 on a 112 LSA, some PAC1218 valve springs and some head studs. Nothing else was touched. Stock truck intake and throttle body, stock truck exhaust manifold. Rest of valvetrain is 100% stock. Bottom end is 100% stock. I used the stock wiring harness and ECU. I have a billet Borg Warner S475 stuffing 18 PSI-24 PSI on pump gas. It will melt my 275 ET Pros from a 50 roll, and I can drive it all day every day with zero issues. I could never dream to make well over 700whp through an automatic on an almost 100% stock L98 long block and have it last for 2 years and several thousand miles, even with a few 30 PSI blasts.
Not to mention, I have $4000 in the entire swap and turbo setup.
I've done a couple of them for half that price recently.
For example, the aluminum 5.3 in my Nova cost me $800 complete with wiring, accessories, ECU. I put in a small 218/218 cam with .570/.570 on a 112 LSA, some PAC1218 valve springs and some head studs. Nothing else was touched. Stock truck intake and throttle body, stock truck exhaust manifold. Rest of valvetrain is 100% stock. Bottom end is 100% stock. I used the stock wiring harness and ECU. I have a billet Borg Warner S475 stuffing 18 PSI-24 PSI on pump gas. It will melt my 275 ET Pros from a 50 roll, and I can drive it all day every day with zero issues. I could never dream to make well over 700whp through an automatic on an almost 100% stock L98 long block and have it last for 2 years and several thousand miles, even with a few 30 PSI blasts.
Not to mention, I have $4000 in the entire swap and turbo setup.
I've done a couple of them for half that price recently.
Last edited by JoeNova; 10-03-2016 at 01:53 PM.
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10-03-2016, 04:46 PM
#15
Most people don't literally means LSX when they say LSX, especially if they use the word cheap in the same sentence. I do it often, but I just mean LSXYorZ. You can piece meal together a pretty inexpensive iron 5.3/6.0 using used GM stuff. It's starting to make more sense $ wise, when an opti cost you the same as a junkyard long block. Makes even more sense if you've got time and some fab skills...
im a L98 early c4 Atari dash lover.
ive even looked at shavind down the teuck intakes but there would be the need for a small hood cowling which i dont want. the glass and repaint would cost more than an ls1 intake. but wow that'd be easy!
no doubt having an aluminium block would be the cats meow. Ive seen wrecked c5's up here in canada for 8k !!!! i can an lq4 or lq9 up here for 400$!!
10-04-2016, 09:39 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
IMO The LS swap is really only hard with a C4 because of the drivetrain layout. C beam, engine shoved back, no transmission mounts, etc. I'm not sure it's worth the headaches of doing swap. Getting a LS C4 could be a different story. Dropping LS in almost anything other than a C4 is just a swap. I would only want a 6.0 or larger, but would prefer aluminum block.
10-04-2016, 10:03 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
IMO The LS swap is really only hard with a C4 because of the drivetrain layout. C beam, engine shoved back, no transmission mounts, etc. I'm not sure it's worth the headaches of doing swap. Getting a LS C4 could be a different story. Dropping LS in almost anything other than a C4 is just a swap. I would only want a 6.0 or larger, but would prefer aluminum block.
It drops right into a C4 with the transmission on the stock position using the stock clamshell mounts with some $35 ICT Billet adapter plates.
With boost, engine size is almost completely irrelevant. The price gap between a 5.3 and 6.0 doesn't even really justify the power difference unless you have a certain goal in mind.
10-04-2016, 10:40 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
If I was building a "Street" or track car my view would be different. The 6.0 was standard in Escalades shouldn't be that pricey. I prefer more bore than stroke that just me.
10-04-2016, 11:16 AM
#19
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Only 'bespoke', "true sports car motor" that ever came in a Corvette that I can think of, is the LT5, which was one of the heaviest Corvette motors of all time (even though it was all aluminum).
Focus on the meaningful results...don't get wound up in the details that really don't matter, like block material.
10-04-2016, 11:39 AM
#20
^^^^ this!!