baildvetter000

I am a corvette owner ( 98 Black on Black coupe). so please don't boot me! I have a 33 Chevy coupe with a 95 LT1 with a 4L60E trans. My problem is sometimes the starter when cold just clicks ( I know in the old days that usually meant a solenoid). Once it connects and starts it works perfect all day. Now for the weirdness I replaced the starter and it was perfect for 2 mos. and then started acting up again . I replaced the ignition switch and again it was perfect for 2 mos. and then started acting up again. I replaced the battery - again 2 mos. later -same problem. I replaced the switch again and 2 mos. later the same problem. The battery is in the trunk with welding cable for battery cables with hardly any current drop at all at the starter. The cars is only driven maybe 2 to 3 times a week. Sometimes it start right up and other times like yesterday around 15 clicks before it finally caught. Believe me all connections are clean and tight. It has block hugger headers which get close to the starter. Any chance it can draw moisture?

aklim

TEST, TEST and when you are done, TEST again.

OK. you say there is no current drop at the starter. Fair enough. You also say that the starter clicks when cold so we KNOW it is getting a signal. Assuming the bolts are tight, here is my thought. Take the battery out and have it tested. I would charge it up and see what it does at the test site when they do a draw test.

I had a situation that was similar. It would start warm but not cold. After you jump it, it works. So it must be a weak battery, right? Testing done later, not an issue. Checked the charging system to make sure it has juice going to the battery. I removed the alternator and had a rebuild shop take it apart IN FRONT OF ME and test and it was good. Took the starter out and had Autozone or some other parts place test it and it was fine. Just for the hell of it, took it to the rebuild shop. I got called back (not good). Oil had messed up the starter and there was crud all inside. Rebuilt it and cleaned it and no more problems.

WVZR-1

I'll agree with "testing" but maybe first you confirm components and the entire wiring scheme. What type starter is being used? A 'Denso style GM compact likes to see optimum voltage and "less than" generally results in the situation you describe. Your particular set of circumstances I believe maybe you do a crank and charge evaluation on the entire system.

You mention replacing the ignition switch. Why? What type? If it's using a Saginaw/GM tilt column is that the type?

Battery group type? Age? Alternator type & amperage? '95 LT1 would likely be a CS144 - 140AMP. Gauge wire alternator to battery charging? Gauge wire battery to starter? Proper grounds engine to chassis/frame? You fabricated the cables or..? Cables are all "fine wire" welding? What brand/type starter? If you started with less than a quality 'Denso or quality Tilton product maybe that's where you go first.

There should be many good reads for voltage drop testing around the Internet so maybe you pick one that you understand and stick to that one for complete system check. Charging system check using a "Carbon-Pile" load test would be a good read also.

I believe you do all tests "on the car" -

baildvetter000

two different batteries and two different alts. Charging voltage 13.7-14.2. Battery reading sitting overnight 12.6-12.8.

baildvetter000

Two different batts. and two different alts. Charging voltage 13.7-14.2. Battery reading sitting overnight 12.6-12.8. Still the same problem.

baildvetter000

AS I said in my post voltage drop almost nil at starter. Stater is an Autozone premium. Alternator is not a 140amp. but only requirement is stereo and lights. One question-battery is in the trunk and grounds to the frame right underneath, Engine is grounded at bolt where motor mount bolts on block and other end is on the long bolt that goes thru the mount where it is welded on the frame.

scuba717

Check your ground strap at the battery. You may have no voltage drop, but if you have resistance on the ground side your in trouble. If this is the issue, the ground side will be hot when cranking.

aklim

But what is the test saying besides you have the voltage? Does it have the amperage? Also I would take a look at the alternator and the inside

WVZR-1

OP - you've actually answered few questions and none of maybe the important ones. BATTERY GROUP TYPE? CCA? CABLE GAUGE? WHY THE IGNITION SWITCH WAS REPLACED? TYPE?

To solve your problems you either need to learn and accomplish a "load test" of CRANK AND CHARGE OR consider a "FOR HIRE". It's actually that simple I'd say. I don't believe any components need disassembled for inspection - just a well thought out "LOAD TEST" of the entire system.

It sounds like you blamed the battery and the guy replaced it, then blamed the alternator and it was replaced - you didn't mention multiple replacements of the starter but I'd guess maybe you have. You mention it seems just once but then .........

pcolt94

Offhand sound like it's not a cranking problem, but a solenoid engagement problem as I had a similar situation.

Connect a volt meter to the solenoid voltage connection terminal. (run a wire into car with meter and find a ground so you can see voltage all the time when started). When you start you can monitor the voltage to the solenoid and see if there is enough voltage to pull the solenoid in. If your much below 10 volts that may not cut it. A older one may need more voltage than a newer one. There's no definite voltage number that’s needed but you have to measure to see if it seems reasonable.

If voltage is too low, there may be a voltage drop across the wire down to the solenoid. But it could be anywhere if there was unusual drop, on any wire or across a contact or connection.

This is a starting point and should be check when cold, and then when hot or rest of the day as you said. If things look good, move to another area.

baildvetter000

I think we are missing the point here. There is no Guy-I do all of my own work. I am on my second starter. My question is again- Why does everything work perfect for 2 mos. after I replace it and then go back to the once in a while clicking and not turning of the starter. believe me I have friends who have built and raced cars all of their lives and cant answer me. I am 68 and have worked on cars since I was 16. I came to you guys because I know the LT1 has a little different starting system.

aklim

Kind of why I thought that an autopsy of the starter may reveal something

A Peter C4

You say all connections are good,did you check cable lugs on welder cable also good ground engine to frame.Have you had someone else checking all connections while this is happening?If starter is good sounds like a bad connection somewhere.

WVZR-1

I certainly did understand! I missed nothing! "THE GUY" (I mentioned) is the retailer that you dealt with handing off parts. I actually thought/think that what "pcolt94" mentions is where I'd go if it were in my driveway but you asked and since it's a complete rewire "the car '33 coupe" and you've 2X replacement of nearly all components I thought I was doing you a favor by mentioning reads and load testing! You've offered nothing in response to the wiring questions. You were asked ignition switch type with no response.

What are you using as a "NSS(neutral safety switch)?

I don't know what you feel is so different with the LT1 "cranking" - maybe explain.

I doubt you've a component issue but actually a wiring fault, but if you ain't prepared to do what's required to confirm that there's no hope. If you've an AZ 'Denso starter I'd maybe check the contacts and plunger operation along with the ignition switch, NSS etc to the starter.

Was/is the car wired with a "Painless" or other branding components or a total DIY fabrication?

baildvetter000

It is a hot rod. Idit tilt column with no switch provision. Ignition switch is a universal on the dash. Car was wired when I got it. It is a custom wiring kit ( tags on each wire telling what it is). No neutral switch. When I put up this post it had clicked around 15 times and then started ( when it starts it spins fast- the reason I don't think of current drop). I live in Virginia and this morning it was 35 degrees. It rained all day yesterday and the car is in an unheated garage. I went out this morning and put the key in the switch and it fired right up. I started it another ten times in a row. I might go out tomorrow and get the click. The reason for the statement on LT1 starting comes from the fact that years ago I had a 96 LT4 Vette and it would not start by cranking but as soon as you returned the key to run it would fire right up. I questioned it on this Forum and was told that the LT Vette starting system was a little different. As I have stated before I can change the battery or I can change the switch or I can change the starter and will be perfect for a couple of mos. but will start acting up again

lt4obsesses

I'm going to go another direction here. I'm not exactly a guru on this so take it for what it is.

The one thing in the orig post that hasn't been discussed is the block hugger headers. Starters don't like heat, do you have some type of heat shield or heat wrap protecting the starter from external heat? This seems like one thing that might cause issues after x amount of time.

My other thought is the 4l60e, while very close this isn't exactly the same auto trans that was mated to the LT1. Could there be an issue with the flex plate, or the alignment that might be causing extra load on the starter when engaging the flex plate? Line of thinking being that it is just enough to cause premature wear or excessive stress on the solenoid.

I'm just trying to think in terms of what would take some time, like 2 months, to start having issues. I would think electrical issues would be apparent sooner than later. Although the argument for not enough juice to the starter is valid and could result in the same symptoms/time frame?

baildvetter000

I thought of that maybe causing moisture in the starter as it cooled off. But once I start it for the day it seems like the hotter the motor gets the easier it starts. How does that explain changing the ignition switch it will work great for 2 mos? Wasn't the 4L60E used with the LT1 in full size cars and some Camaros?

pcolt94

You have been throwing parts at it for months now. You need some actual repeatable data so you can see what's going on. You may have a wire that’s too thin for the amount of current that's demanded and the length of it.

The starting configuration for a LT1 is pretty conventional and straight forward.
In a corvette VATS is part of the start circuitry with a start enable relay. I have no idea of what your configuration and connections are. Are you using VATS?, probably not.

Taking data is sometimes slow but is the only way to establish a pattern in a methodical way. Got to start somewhere.

aklim

Where are you getting these replacement starters at?

lt4obsesses

Maybe, before being called the 4l60e it was the 700 r4. The 4l60 began in '94. I don't know if there was any difference in the basic architecture in terms of the two, or even the different applications. The LT1 in the f-body as well as the full size cars were different. The Corvette has four bolt mains while the others were two bolt.

But yeah, it's kind of guess. It just seems strange that every time you throw a new part at it, it's great for a couple of months and then acts up again.