Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s
09-26-2002, 12:02 AM
#1
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
Thread Starter
Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s
Forum members:
Goodyear has just scored a virtual "one-two punch" in the ultra-performance tire market.
A couple of months ago, it introduced the Eagle F1 Supercar (OE tire on 01-03 Z06es) in replacement sizes to fit many 88-96 C4s and the non-Z06, C5s. If you want to learn more about that tire, I posted a review of that product at: https://www.corvetteforum.com/review...503&TopicID=16
On Sept. 17, Goodyear took its second swipe at the ultra-performance market by introducing the "Eagle F1 GS-D3" (or just the "F1" as Goodyear abbreviates it) to the North American market. The F1 GS-D3 fills out the aggressive, performance end of Goodyear’s tire line by replacing the ancient GS-C for all C4 sizes, except 255/50ZR16 which fits 84-87 and some 88s. With the F1 Supercar and the GS-D3, all of Goodyear’s ultra-performance tires are now, state-of-the-art.
This new tire is a quantum leap past the old GS-C and an improvement over the F1 GS in dry traction, noise, wear and ride. By virtue of a completely different tread design, the tire is a heck of a lot better in the wet than either of those older products.
Where does the F1 GS-D3 sit in relation to the F1 Supercar? Well, the Supercar is still Goodyear's most aggressive, dry traction tire and remains one of the top choices if you want a DOT-legal tire for hard-core performance driving on the street and occasional trips to the track.
The GS-D3 fits in Goodyear's ultra-performance line just a small step below the Supercar. It doesn't have quite the limited tread depth and lunatic-fringe dry traction, but it's better in the wet and is quieter. My guess is it might also be just a bit better in tread life, too.
What about the few C4 sizes not covered by the new F1 GS-D3? The existing F1 GS will continue to be available for early C4s.
Goodyear Marketing Manager for Auto Tires, Bob Toth told me last week, at a media program Goodyear hosted to introduce the new tire, that all 39 sizes in the GS-D3 line should be in the retail pipeline by late October. The Corvette sizes of this tire are made, alongside the F1 Supercar, at Goodyear's plant in Lawton, Oklahoma.
On Sept. 18, I spent a day and half testing this new tire at Goodyear's Proving Ground in San Angelo, Texas. A good part of this 7250-acre installation was turned over to two groups of we media folks for two days of tests and briefings. Oh, yeah, we did a little “playing” too. Writers were treated to rides in Goodyear’s newest airship, the recently Christened “Spirit of America” along, with a Texas-style BBQ complete with steak, potatoes, Lone Star Beer and even, a pet Armadillo named, appropriately, “Tex” (runing loose) and Rattlesnakes (in glass cages).
The San Angelo’s facility's vehicle dynamics area, a 540,000 sq/ft. asphalt pad (for comparison a football field is only 90,000 sq/ft.) with a 1-deg. slope and a water distribution system that spreads a layer of water, .050-.060-in. thick over the entire facility, was the site of some wet handling tests I ran. Goodyear had turned on the water and set up a braking test and a low-speed autocross. My test cars were three Corvette Convertibles with automatics and base suspensions. One had a set of Michelin Pilot Sports. A second had a set of Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Positions and the third car had F1 GS-D3s. Tire sizes on all cars were stock. Tire pressures were 30 psi cold.
The braking test procedure was: accelerate to 55 mph then, upon passing a set of start cones, apply full, ABS braking. From the start cones, there were measurement signs every ten feet. The Pilot and the Potenza brought the car to a stop in 87-90 feet. The new Goodyear's performance in the same test was 83-85 feet for an approximate, 5% improvement.
The autocross was not timed and was used as a subjective evaluation of the car's limit handling on a wet surface. After driving all three tires, I felt the Goodyear had a slightly higher breakaway limit in the wet than both the Pilot Sport and the S-03 Pole Position. Also, compared to the Goodyear and the Michelin. the Bridgestone didn’t seem as predictible. Once it began to slip, it broke-away abruptly. With the other two, once I felt initial breakaway, things happened just a bit slower. I observed two different drivers spin the Bridgestone-shod car in the same spot on the course. It was a place where an unprepared driver was liable to lift abruptly in a turn. Once the Bridgestone hits its limit in the wet, it breaks-loose instantly. Not a good thing, in my opinion.
Later, Goodyear supplied objective, traction coefficient vs. percentage of slip data for all three tires. It was taken at 60 mph in the wet. While at that higher speed, each tires' hydroplane characteristics may have had a slightly greater effect, the data seemed to confirm what I'd felt in the 40-50-mph slalom. This data showed that the new Goodyear is a moderate improvment over the Michelin and slightly better than the Bridgestone, until the slip angle reaches 30-deg. Past that (angles you'd almost never see unless you were loosing or had lost control of the vehicle) the Bridgestone and the Goodyear are about the same with both having an edge over the Michelin. This testing convinced me that, right now, the best choice in an ultra-performance tire for a Corvette (or any performance car, for that matter) that might get driven in the rain is a Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3.
I asked Goodyear Engineer, Melissa Montisano, what features of this new tire would cause it to better both those other, admittedly good tire brands in the testing I did. She told me that in the 55-mph. braking test and low-speed autocross, on surfaces wetted to a depth of .050-.060-in., the tires' hydroplaning characteristics are not the most critical factor. What makes the F1 stick better in the wet at those speeds is its tread design, its tread compound and the size of its footprint.
That afternoon, I moved to the Proving Grounds' 2.5 mile road race course for a subjective evaluation of the F1 in an at-limit, dry traction environment. The test car was an Audi A4 sedan with a 220hp V6 and a six-speed manual trans...not really a car I'd choose to use for a tire test, but one that is on the "sedate" end of the target market for this tire. Again, the tire sizes were stock and the tire pressures were 30-psi cold.
I ended up being quick time of the day amongst all other media present so, even though I'd never driven that track and never driven an all-wheel drive car, I knew I'd run the new Goodyears harder than anyone else present. There was no competing tire products to test so about the only conclusions I could draw were: 1) the F1 GS-D3 is quite predictable, certainly more so than an old GS-C and 2) they are a pretty forgiving tire in that you could take them right up to the limit, then stray back and forth just across it, and not abruptly end up in the weeds.
It was difficult to gain much more of a subjective impression because an Audi A4 is not the best platform for testing like this. It felt quite heavy for its size, has too much body roll and an awful shift linkage. Additionally, the 30-psi cold figure was probably too low for that car as the outside fronts showed clear evidence the sidewalls were rolling under. For a more substantial impression or some kind of comparison, I'll have to wait until I can get a set of F1s on a car I know well.
The final stop in my day at Goodyear's San Angelo facility was a late-afternoon visit to the "Glass-Plate" testing facility. You all have seen images of tires, rolling across wetted-down, glass plates. San Angelo's Glass Plate facility is where Goodyear does that kind of test work. It's not often that tire companies invite media to visit the venues they use for this kind of testing, much less let them go down, into the underground lab beneath the plate and watch their engineers at work, but Goodyear did that for me. The actual plate is about 18-in. wide, 36-in long and 4.5-in. thick and is covered by an .080-in. of water. The Glass Plate control system is designed to hold that water depth accurately as long as the wind is less than 2-mph. If the wind velocity is higher than that, no testing is conducted. After each run across the plate, automated equipment cleans off the plate and restores the water layer to the .080-in. depth. The plate itself is scientific-grade glass that is optically correct. The imaging equipment is all digital and computer-controlled. Strobes are used to light the tire as it crosses the plate and the water is dyed green, which shows up best in a color image. While we were in the "Pit," a Goodyear test driver ran a C5 Coupe fitted with F1s over the plate a couple of times at 40 mph while I watched the test images get processed then looked at the results.
Goodyear supplied data accumulated at this facility for the Bridgestone Potenza S-03 PP, the Michelin Pilot Sport and the F1 GS-D3. Typically, this data is taken at 2mph (which establishes a 100% footprint "baseline"), 40 mph, 60 mph and sometimes higher speeds, depending on the tire or the testing required. In this case, the data was for 2, 40 and 60 mph. At 2mph, obviously, all three had 100% of the footprint area retained on a pass through the .080-in water. At 40 mph, They varied from 88% area retention for the Goodyear and the Bridgestone to 91% for the Michelin. At 60 mph, things changed. The Michelin dropped to 61% of the area retained. The Bridgestone was at 64% and the Goodyear was at 67%. If you want to go fast in the wet, the best hydroplaning resistance in the ultra-performance tire market, right now, comes with the new F1.
The new Goodyear's improved resistance to hydroplaning in the wet comes from something called "V-TRED" technology. Circumferential, water-evacuation channels, such as Goodyear uses on the Auquatred 3, wouldn't work on a tire like the F1 GS-D3 because they'd deal its dry-traction capability a serious blow. The solution is long, sweeping grooves that are at an angle, but not as sharp an angle as seen on previous Goodyear performance tires. What's unique is V-TRED grooves extend more than three times the length of the tire contact patch. When the tire is rotating these grooves greatly enhance the flow of water to the outside of the tire's tread, yet still put lots of rubber on the road. I prefer not to upload images with forum post, I'll refer you to Goodyear's web site at http://www.eagleF1.com where there is an outstanding, graphical display of the V-TRED idea along with a lot of other pretty cool image stuff. You need the latest Macromedia Flash plug-in for your browser to view this site. Later, when I post a product review of this tire, I’ll post some images, too.
This tire, in a limited amount of sizes, was introduced over in Europe back in the spring. American car magazines seldom do tire tests these days, but tire testing is wildly popular amongst the European automotive press. In the last six months, the British magazine, EVO and the German publications Auto Zeitung , Sport Auto and Auto Bild all ran tire comparison tests and Auto Bild has run two. Each of these tests included the F1 GS-D3. In the interest of saving space, I can't list all those results but suffice to say, the new Goodyear was an outright winner in some of these tests and placed very well in all of them. My guess is, further details of these tests can be found on each magazine's web sites and, perhaps, English versions of the data may be on Goodyear's site.
At this point, I'm a believer.
On my list of tires, the new Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 has replaced the Pilot Sport as the best, all-round, ultra-performance, tire. As soon as I get a set of these new Goodyears on something in my own fleet, I'll have more to say, probably in the form of post to the Corvette Forum’s product review section.
Goodyear has just scored a virtual "one-two punch" in the ultra-performance tire market.
A couple of months ago, it introduced the Eagle F1 Supercar (OE tire on 01-03 Z06es) in replacement sizes to fit many 88-96 C4s and the non-Z06, C5s. If you want to learn more about that tire, I posted a review of that product at: https://www.corvetteforum.com/review...503&TopicID=16
On Sept. 17, Goodyear took its second swipe at the ultra-performance market by introducing the "Eagle F1 GS-D3" (or just the "F1" as Goodyear abbreviates it) to the North American market. The F1 GS-D3 fills out the aggressive, performance end of Goodyear’s tire line by replacing the ancient GS-C for all C4 sizes, except 255/50ZR16 which fits 84-87 and some 88s. With the F1 Supercar and the GS-D3, all of Goodyear’s ultra-performance tires are now, state-of-the-art.
This new tire is a quantum leap past the old GS-C and an improvement over the F1 GS in dry traction, noise, wear and ride. By virtue of a completely different tread design, the tire is a heck of a lot better in the wet than either of those older products.
Where does the F1 GS-D3 sit in relation to the F1 Supercar? Well, the Supercar is still Goodyear's most aggressive, dry traction tire and remains one of the top choices if you want a DOT-legal tire for hard-core performance driving on the street and occasional trips to the track.
The GS-D3 fits in Goodyear's ultra-performance line just a small step below the Supercar. It doesn't have quite the limited tread depth and lunatic-fringe dry traction, but it's better in the wet and is quieter. My guess is it might also be just a bit better in tread life, too.
What about the few C4 sizes not covered by the new F1 GS-D3? The existing F1 GS will continue to be available for early C4s.
Goodyear Marketing Manager for Auto Tires, Bob Toth told me last week, at a media program Goodyear hosted to introduce the new tire, that all 39 sizes in the GS-D3 line should be in the retail pipeline by late October. The Corvette sizes of this tire are made, alongside the F1 Supercar, at Goodyear's plant in Lawton, Oklahoma.
On Sept. 18, I spent a day and half testing this new tire at Goodyear's Proving Ground in San Angelo, Texas. A good part of this 7250-acre installation was turned over to two groups of we media folks for two days of tests and briefings. Oh, yeah, we did a little “playing” too. Writers were treated to rides in Goodyear’s newest airship, the recently Christened “Spirit of America” along, with a Texas-style BBQ complete with steak, potatoes, Lone Star Beer and even, a pet Armadillo named, appropriately, “Tex” (runing loose) and Rattlesnakes (in glass cages).
The San Angelo’s facility's vehicle dynamics area, a 540,000 sq/ft. asphalt pad (for comparison a football field is only 90,000 sq/ft.) with a 1-deg. slope and a water distribution system that spreads a layer of water, .050-.060-in. thick over the entire facility, was the site of some wet handling tests I ran. Goodyear had turned on the water and set up a braking test and a low-speed autocross. My test cars were three Corvette Convertibles with automatics and base suspensions. One had a set of Michelin Pilot Sports. A second had a set of Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Positions and the third car had F1 GS-D3s. Tire sizes on all cars were stock. Tire pressures were 30 psi cold.
The braking test procedure was: accelerate to 55 mph then, upon passing a set of start cones, apply full, ABS braking. From the start cones, there were measurement signs every ten feet. The Pilot and the Potenza brought the car to a stop in 87-90 feet. The new Goodyear's performance in the same test was 83-85 feet for an approximate, 5% improvement.
The autocross was not timed and was used as a subjective evaluation of the car's limit handling on a wet surface. After driving all three tires, I felt the Goodyear had a slightly higher breakaway limit in the wet than both the Pilot Sport and the S-03 Pole Position. Also, compared to the Goodyear and the Michelin. the Bridgestone didn’t seem as predictible. Once it began to slip, it broke-away abruptly. With the other two, once I felt initial breakaway, things happened just a bit slower. I observed two different drivers spin the Bridgestone-shod car in the same spot on the course. It was a place where an unprepared driver was liable to lift abruptly in a turn. Once the Bridgestone hits its limit in the wet, it breaks-loose instantly. Not a good thing, in my opinion.
Later, Goodyear supplied objective, traction coefficient vs. percentage of slip data for all three tires. It was taken at 60 mph in the wet. While at that higher speed, each tires' hydroplane characteristics may have had a slightly greater effect, the data seemed to confirm what I'd felt in the 40-50-mph slalom. This data showed that the new Goodyear is a moderate improvment over the Michelin and slightly better than the Bridgestone, until the slip angle reaches 30-deg. Past that (angles you'd almost never see unless you were loosing or had lost control of the vehicle) the Bridgestone and the Goodyear are about the same with both having an edge over the Michelin. This testing convinced me that, right now, the best choice in an ultra-performance tire for a Corvette (or any performance car, for that matter) that might get driven in the rain is a Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3.
I asked Goodyear Engineer, Melissa Montisano, what features of this new tire would cause it to better both those other, admittedly good tire brands in the testing I did. She told me that in the 55-mph. braking test and low-speed autocross, on surfaces wetted to a depth of .050-.060-in., the tires' hydroplaning characteristics are not the most critical factor. What makes the F1 stick better in the wet at those speeds is its tread design, its tread compound and the size of its footprint.
That afternoon, I moved to the Proving Grounds' 2.5 mile road race course for a subjective evaluation of the F1 in an at-limit, dry traction environment. The test car was an Audi A4 sedan with a 220hp V6 and a six-speed manual trans...not really a car I'd choose to use for a tire test, but one that is on the "sedate" end of the target market for this tire. Again, the tire sizes were stock and the tire pressures were 30-psi cold.
I ended up being quick time of the day amongst all other media present so, even though I'd never driven that track and never driven an all-wheel drive car, I knew I'd run the new Goodyears harder than anyone else present. There was no competing tire products to test so about the only conclusions I could draw were: 1) the F1 GS-D3 is quite predictable, certainly more so than an old GS-C and 2) they are a pretty forgiving tire in that you could take them right up to the limit, then stray back and forth just across it, and not abruptly end up in the weeds.
It was difficult to gain much more of a subjective impression because an Audi A4 is not the best platform for testing like this. It felt quite heavy for its size, has too much body roll and an awful shift linkage. Additionally, the 30-psi cold figure was probably too low for that car as the outside fronts showed clear evidence the sidewalls were rolling under. For a more substantial impression or some kind of comparison, I'll have to wait until I can get a set of F1s on a car I know well.
The final stop in my day at Goodyear's San Angelo facility was a late-afternoon visit to the "Glass-Plate" testing facility. You all have seen images of tires, rolling across wetted-down, glass plates. San Angelo's Glass Plate facility is where Goodyear does that kind of test work. It's not often that tire companies invite media to visit the venues they use for this kind of testing, much less let them go down, into the underground lab beneath the plate and watch their engineers at work, but Goodyear did that for me. The actual plate is about 18-in. wide, 36-in long and 4.5-in. thick and is covered by an .080-in. of water. The Glass Plate control system is designed to hold that water depth accurately as long as the wind is less than 2-mph. If the wind velocity is higher than that, no testing is conducted. After each run across the plate, automated equipment cleans off the plate and restores the water layer to the .080-in. depth. The plate itself is scientific-grade glass that is optically correct. The imaging equipment is all digital and computer-controlled. Strobes are used to light the tire as it crosses the plate and the water is dyed green, which shows up best in a color image. While we were in the "Pit," a Goodyear test driver ran a C5 Coupe fitted with F1s over the plate a couple of times at 40 mph while I watched the test images get processed then looked at the results.
Goodyear supplied data accumulated at this facility for the Bridgestone Potenza S-03 PP, the Michelin Pilot Sport and the F1 GS-D3. Typically, this data is taken at 2mph (which establishes a 100% footprint "baseline"), 40 mph, 60 mph and sometimes higher speeds, depending on the tire or the testing required. In this case, the data was for 2, 40 and 60 mph. At 2mph, obviously, all three had 100% of the footprint area retained on a pass through the .080-in water. At 40 mph, They varied from 88% area retention for the Goodyear and the Bridgestone to 91% for the Michelin. At 60 mph, things changed. The Michelin dropped to 61% of the area retained. The Bridgestone was at 64% and the Goodyear was at 67%. If you want to go fast in the wet, the best hydroplaning resistance in the ultra-performance tire market, right now, comes with the new F1.
The new Goodyear's improved resistance to hydroplaning in the wet comes from something called "V-TRED" technology. Circumferential, water-evacuation channels, such as Goodyear uses on the Auquatred 3, wouldn't work on a tire like the F1 GS-D3 because they'd deal its dry-traction capability a serious blow. The solution is long, sweeping grooves that are at an angle, but not as sharp an angle as seen on previous Goodyear performance tires. What's unique is V-TRED grooves extend more than three times the length of the tire contact patch. When the tire is rotating these grooves greatly enhance the flow of water to the outside of the tire's tread, yet still put lots of rubber on the road. I prefer not to upload images with forum post, I'll refer you to Goodyear's web site at http://www.eagleF1.com where there is an outstanding, graphical display of the V-TRED idea along with a lot of other pretty cool image stuff. You need the latest Macromedia Flash plug-in for your browser to view this site. Later, when I post a product review of this tire, I’ll post some images, too.
This tire, in a limited amount of sizes, was introduced over in Europe back in the spring. American car magazines seldom do tire tests these days, but tire testing is wildly popular amongst the European automotive press. In the last six months, the British magazine, EVO and the German publications Auto Zeitung , Sport Auto and Auto Bild all ran tire comparison tests and Auto Bild has run two. Each of these tests included the F1 GS-D3. In the interest of saving space, I can't list all those results but suffice to say, the new Goodyear was an outright winner in some of these tests and placed very well in all of them. My guess is, further details of these tests can be found on each magazine's web sites and, perhaps, English versions of the data may be on Goodyear's site.
At this point, I'm a believer.
On my list of tires, the new Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 has replaced the Pilot Sport as the best, all-round, ultra-performance, tire. As soon as I get a set of these new Goodyears on something in my own fleet, I'll have more to say, probably in the form of post to the Corvette Forum’s product review section.
09-26-2002, 12:11 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
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Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (Hib Halverson)
:cool: :cheers:
09-26-2002, 12:30 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
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Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (Hib Halverson)
"This commertial message brought to you by the good folks at Goodyear"
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
09-26-2002, 12:48 AM
#5
Race Director
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (PeteL)
Hmmmm. I like Goodyears.
I get good traction out of my 275/40ZR17 Eagle F1 GS with the supercar tire tread compound (know this because they are 03 Mustang Cobra development tires, that I have like 4 more of)
I get good traction out of my 275/40ZR17 Eagle F1 GS with the supercar tire tread compound (know this because they are 03 Mustang Cobra development tires, that I have like 4 more of)
09-26-2002, 12:50 AM
#6
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
Thread Starter
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (PeteL)
>>so it will come in the 275 or 285 /40 17? I noticed in your F1 SC review the tire came in a 265/40 17<<
The F1 GS-D3 will be available in:
255/45ZR17
275/40ZR17
285/40ZR17
The F1 Supercar is available in:
275/40ZR17
315/35ZR17
The SC is, also, available in a 265/40ZR17.
[Modified by Hib Halverson, 8:53 PM 9/25/2002]
The F1 GS-D3 will be available in:
255/45ZR17
275/40ZR17
285/40ZR17
The F1 Supercar is available in:
275/40ZR17
315/35ZR17
The SC is, also, available in a 265/40ZR17.
[Modified by Hib Halverson, 8:53 PM 9/25/2002]
09-26-2002, 06:23 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
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Re: (scorp508)
wonder where these will stack up to the kuhmo MX in dry grip, kuhmo is what? half the price of a supercar & will pull as many or more G's, it's nice goodyear is ditching there trash tires like the GSC but i don't see how they sell many with competitors like the KD and MX.
[Modified by gtsyellow, 2:24 AM 9/26/2002]
[Modified by gtsyellow, 2:24 AM 9/26/2002]
09-27-2002, 07:25 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (PeteL)
"This commertial message brought to you by the good folks at Goodyear"
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
Eric
09-28-2002, 01:05 PM
#10
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Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (Hib Halverson)
Thanks to Hib for the info.
From the test data, seems there is a new sheriff in town for wet traction in the max performance category. Somewhat of a surprise that the SO3 PP did not fare better.
What we need now is a comparison of the new Goodyear, the KD, and the Kuhmo on a dry track. Not just pure lateral G force, but an evaluation of transient handling and behavior at the edge as well.
Anybody game? Most of us do our banzai runs in the dry, and back it down several notches in the rain.
From the test data, seems there is a new sheriff in town for wet traction in the max performance category. Somewhat of a surprise that the SO3 PP did not fare better.
What we need now is a comparison of the new Goodyear, the KD, and the Kuhmo on a dry track. Not just pure lateral G force, but an evaluation of transient handling and behavior at the edge as well.
Anybody game? Most of us do our banzai runs in the dry, and back it down several notches in the rain.
09-28-2002, 01:34 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (tkrussell)
:cool: I have goodyear GS-C now :U
What do you think is the best 275/40/17 tire for wet traction and tread life?
marthpodi
What do you think is the best 275/40/17 tire for wet traction and tread life?
marthpodi
09-28-2002, 05:48 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
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Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (marthpodi)
Why does wet traction matter? I thought you could not drive vettes in the rain.... :lol: I have done testing with the KUM-HO Ecsta MX vs the Victoracer V700 in the dry with a GEEZ system. I have not had the chance to test with other "street" tires. The Kumho Ecsta MX will pull 1.03 lg constant on a stock class C4, Z52 w koni's. I would like to hear some numbers from other "street" tires on similar cars.
09-28-2002, 06:47 PM
#13
Team Owner
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (RX7 KLR)
Grassroots motorsports magazine did a review of many different tires... BFG g-Force, Kuhmo's, Michelin Pilot's... and others that I don't remember...
however, the Kubmo's did win but the differneces were minor... considering price, they are the real bang-for-the-buck leader.
like any kind of performance or racing, getting that last .2 of a second is the most expensive part of the development....
however, the Kubmo's did win but the differneces were minor... considering price, they are the real bang-for-the-buck leader.
like any kind of performance or racing, getting that last .2 of a second is the most expensive part of the development....
09-28-2002, 07:34 PM
#14
Drifting
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (Hib Halverson)
I think I will stick w/my 265/40/17 & 275/40/18 Toyo T1-S tires. No offense to Goodyear. I think that they are wonderful tires, well, some of them....
09-29-2002, 01:45 PM
#15
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
Thread Starter
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (silver & red CE)
I'd love to know if he received any compensation from Goodyear like tires, plane tickets, food/lodging? If so, he should make that clear in his post.
There are several ways this part of the discussion could go depending on what state of mind "silver & red CE" was in when he/she keyed-in that question.
All the material I post to the CF forums and review sections about specific products are done for free, thus, there's no way I could write about new products shown at media preview events and/or visits to proving grounds, unless the locations of such preview events requires no significant travel or manufacturers of the products agree to cover most of the cost of media visits such as what Goodyear hosted in Texas two weeks ago. Goodyear brought press in from all over North America for this event.
How can we eliminate media "junkets"?
If "silver & red CE" and other CF members were charged by the month to access the Corvette Forum and the CF, in turn, paid me for my material and then, I paid for trips to various manufacturer's media events, would that be a suitable system?
09-29-2002, 03:47 PM
#16
Team Owner
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (Hib Halverson)
I read your comments... I made comments... and I was concerned about the observations of certain thread participants.
My comments were directed at product, not your comments... or the percieved editorial observations.
however, your followup are some of the most well thought out comments I have seen here in a long time.
Press junkets are nothing new. the manufacturers bring media to see their wares.
no different than GM bringing Car and Driver editors out for reviews of the new vette....
our problem here is a collective lack of love for Goodyear products!
Thanks for the input!! and bring more on! I read different views, cause we can never be sure when the next big thing will arrive!
My comments were directed at product, not your comments... or the percieved editorial observations.
however, your followup are some of the most well thought out comments I have seen here in a long time.
Press junkets are nothing new. the manufacturers bring media to see their wares.
no different than GM bringing Car and Driver editors out for reviews of the new vette....
our problem here is a collective lack of love for Goodyear products!
Thanks for the input!! and bring more on! I read different views, cause we can never be sure when the next big thing will arrive!
09-30-2002, 07:49 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (Hib Halverson)
Goodyear paid me no fee to write the lead post in this thread. Goodyear paid part of the expenses for my trip to San Angelo and I paid the rest. Goodyear has not furnished me any tires to test, however, I've requested that it do so. If I get some to test, I will expand upon what I've written with a little more and perhaps better information...
There are several ways this part of the discussion could go depending on what state of mind "silver & red CE" was in when he/she keyed-in that question.
...If "silver & red CE" and other CF members were charged by the month to access the Corvette Forum and the CF, in turn, paid me for my material and then, I paid for trips to various manufacturer's media events, would that be a suitable system?
Here's part of an email I received from your old boss, Bob Wallace of Vette Magazine:
Every car-related magazine does a lot of stuff with advertisers. Every small, i.e. niche mag, runs tech or how-to articles using parts supplied by various advertisers-it's a fact of life in the industry.
Eric
09-30-2002, 08:19 PM
#20
Instructor
Member Since: Aug 2000
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Re: Another new Goodyear Tire for C4s (Hib Halverson)
Well because I have a short attention span I did not read the entire review. But I think the point some are trying to make is that here on the forum we *spend* money and then do the review the hard way. Here you get the unvarnished truth on everything from buying parts on the internet to what is a good color combination for a vette.
I don't fault the review or the reviewer, it's just that when money or other compensation flows from the manufacturer you're going to get a rather skeptical response here.
Does anyone else have a problem with Goodyear using "F1" on their tires after they left F1 years ago? I'm sure they are paying Bernie big time for that!
I don't fault the review or the reviewer, it's just that when money or other compensation flows from the manufacturer you're going to get a rather skeptical response here.
Does anyone else have a problem with Goodyear using "F1" on their tires after they left F1 years ago? I'm sure they are paying Bernie big time for that!