Jeff M

Is anyone running this combination? Looks like I'm going to have to pull the motor once I get back to America to fix that rear main seal adapter leak. :banghead: Don't ask, it's long and pitiful story! As the old saying goes since I have it apart....... :thumbs: If anyone remembers I have a 383 with the Hot Cam kit and TPIS/AFR 190 heads. I'd like to just reuse the same top end parts and stroke the lower half. I'm going to whip that :cuss :cuss :cuss :cuss two piece crank into the creek. I'd like to go with a 3.875 crank and .040" pistons. Given where the torque/horsepower curve is with the 383 would the extra cubes only shift the peaks down or in addition would Ialso see higher numbers? Appreciate any feedback,

StealDads67

I would def say that cam is too small for that motor.... Gonna have to go bigger! You'll get more numbers :thumbs: Just my opinoin

Jeff M

You do bring up a good point Steal but doesn't the Hot Cam have specs similar to the TPIS ZZ409 with 1.6 rockers? :skep: Given a choice I'll sacrifice a little top end power for driveability. Can anyone else chime in? Are the Hot Cam and ZZ409 similar? :confused:


[Modified by Jeff M, 2:28 PM 1/14/2003]

vader86

Its not too small for the 396. It will make good power at low rpms from the cubes and good power at high rpms from the duration. Engines that big like cams with around 220 degrees of duration on both sides, and the hotcam does just that.

But you could go bigger and still have good drivability. Hotcam is probably the minimum i would go with.

StealDads67

By too small i dont mean that if you use it you wont get any power out of it... I simply mean you should look to go bigger.. like vader said, you can def go bigger without sacrificing any drivability and you will put out more power also.....

racerns

I have run a 396 with the HOT Cam in it and I say, too small. My set up originally was hand ported LT-4 heads, Hot Cam, and 1-5/8" shorty headers (f-body) on a stock LT1 bottom end. With no PCM tuning it dynoed at 352rwhp and 350rwt. Then with the exact same set up but a 396 shortblock it dynoed at 361rwhp and 399rwt. I was not really happy with that. I switched to the Comp Extreme 223/236 -114 and put on 1-3/4" long tube header. It dynoed at 387rwhp and 408rwt before a dyno tune and 405rwhp and 412rwt after the tune. My current set up has me using a Crane 234/242-112 .575/.595. My first baseline dyno yeilded 433rwhp and 425rwt. I have not had a chance to tune yet but expect to be up near the 450rwhp when done. Hope this helps. Not sure what you are looking for but I feel that a 396 (or 398w/.040 over) can use alot more cam without sacrificing drivability.


[Modified by racerns, 10:46 PM 1/14/2003]

ENJ

Hello Racerns:
I wondered what happened to you and Ken. Congrads on the family. It's been a couple of years since we meet & I dont think you where married at that time. Your going to have to come back south sometime & pay a visit.
Gene

I also stepped up to the GMPP Crane Cam 234/242-112, .575/595 in my 383 & I wondered why I bothered with the Hot Cam. Drivibilty is good without having a new tune. Still using Hot Cam tune. No dyno time but that might come in Febuary.

Jeff M

Thanks for all the replies however I'm still confused on one thing. Hasn't TPIS built a 409 CID LT1 with their ZZ409 cam(similar specs) and got over 500HP at the flywheel? I understand take these claims with a grain of salt. I'm don't expect those kind of numbers, nor can I afford that type of motor, but isn't 450-470 flywheel HP possible with my set up with proper calibration? I forgot to mention I have the TPIS long tube headers, Random cats, Corsa exhaust and SVO 30lb injectors. As I've said daily drivability(understand this is very subjective) to me. I'd rather come up slightly short than go to big. I hope I don't come across as arguing, I truly appreciate the responses, it's what I love about this forum, you've just about helped me decide. I'm just trying to tap more knowledgeable folks than me. By the way what size throttle body are you running? Thanks again, :thumbs:

Nathan Plemons

You had 1 5/8 shorty headers on a 396? Then you switch to a larger cam and 1 3/4 long tubes and picked up 26 hp and 7 pounds of torque with no additional tuning. Honestly to me it looks like you gained more from the headers than the cam, given that a 350 shows remarkable benefits from long tubes it would only stand to reason that a 396 would as well. I've also never seen anybody claim a real gain from shorty headers on a f-body while long tubes are a consistent 15 hp on a bone stock engine.

I'm not saying that you're not making more power with this cam than you would with the Hot Cam, I'm just saying that you changed more than one thing at a time, and the headers alone can make a huge difference in performance so it's not the most accurate test. Yeah you're making more power but the results can be misleading.

Red Rocket

383RWHP/410RWTQ was the best I could get with the TPIS ZZ409 in my 396.
Never got close to the 402 LT-1 numbers from TPIS with the ZZ409. Picked up
45 Horspower at 6000 RPM's with the Comp Cam's XE 230/236. The Hot Cam probably would have given similar numbers to the ZZ409.

racerns

Hey Gene good to here from you. Kind of funny we ended up going the same route with the cam setup. How is it doing for you in the 1/4? Ken is in europe with his new wife. I was keeping his car for him but he decided to sell it to Jason. There is a chance I might be coming back your way soon, not sure yet. :cheers:

racerns

I think you would be on the egde of making 450 fwhp with the hot cam. It will somewhat depends on what your heads flow. Have you had them flowed independently? I don't know of a set that has come out of AFR flowing what they claim. Just wondering , do you know what power you were making with your 383 setup? I just feel that you would not be sacrificing much drivability at all by stepping up some to, say a Comp 230/236 or something close to that. I am running a 58MM BBK throttle body. :cheers:

racerns

Nathan I agree it was not an apples to apples comparison, that is why I gave all my changes between dynos. I just wanted to show the progression to where I was now. I also think that my 224/236 cam was not necessarily the best choice either, I would say go with the 230/236 or bigger now. :D My 1-5/8" header set up did pick me up almost 10rwhp way back when I was pretty much stock, but it was pretty dumb keeping them when I went 396.

Nathan Plemons

racerns, a little off topic but have you ever been down to B.G. How long have you had your car painted like that? A friend of mine was telling me about a car done up exactly like yours some years ago. He thought it was pretty sweet then and still wants to get his blue Z-28 painted in the same scheme. I'm curious if it wasn't just your car that he saw. Do you by chance road race, and have wrecked the poor thing?


I may be getting my F-bodies confused but if not I guess it's just a small world. :cheers:

racerns

The story of my car is long and complicated ;) It is a good chance he has seen me. The car has bee painted like this since Jan 2000, but my original Camaro (which lives as pieces of this car) was Medium Quazar Blue and had the GS wheels and red hashmarks. That car was in BG in '98 on the way back from the F-body event in Memphis that year. The car is kind of known through the f-body internet community.

I am an avid road course guy and my first car, the Medium Blue one, was totaled at Road Atlanta in the fall of '98 while practicing for the One Lap. I used many part from that car to put this car together. At first it was all white with the GS wheels and red hash marks, as seen on my web page with the One Lap stickers on it. Then at Nelsons Ledges (I hate that place) practicing for the One Lap, I had another off road excursion that was not as damaging to the car but pretty spectacular looking. In doing the repairs I decided to go all the way with the GS look. :D

MSR

for those who have used a HOT cam in a 396, what rods? i am pretty sure eagle H beams are too large for a regular base circle cam, but i'd like to hear otherwise if someone has proved this wrong.

thanks.

racerns

The first motor had Childs&Albert forged rods that had to be clearanced to clear the cam. The current motor is using the Lunati Pro Mod forged rods and they do not need clearancing. You may be right about the H-beam rods, I am not sure if they can take the clearance cut needed.

vetteguy216

Could you guys tell me what it might cost for the machining when you bore .030 or .040?

Shriker

Excellent direct hp comparos with different cams from both racerns and Red Rocket.....great info. The hot cam is great for standard cube LT motors especially LT4's or LT1's with head work. It is very streetable, cheap, makes good power everywhere but seems to be limited to around ~375ish rwhp. As mentioned for a 396 something larger would definitely make quite a bit more with no real sacrifice in other areas. :seeya

ENJ

I retired from the quarter mile running for a while. Plus my buddy Jack with the yellow Callaway lost interest in going also. Big Mac & Anthony the professor still run the F-bodies & Shalin went to the Supra making 666RWHP. Last time out at the track I shattered my ZF at the 8th mile & coasted the rest of the way to 12.84 at 94MPH. She was on a run. But I did my helmet like you did your keys at MIR except my helmet broke into many pieces. I have the worst luck running my Vette so I quit running it. Kens in Europe? Good for him. Tell him hello when you here from him again. Look forward to seeing you when you come down.