jz94

I do, and from what I've seen on CF, nearly everyone does.
When I was first looking for a C4, I test drove 3 cars, and they all took a lot of pedal effort, compared to 'normal cars'. One car was so bad, I thought I was going to hit somebody in normal traffic! I gave up on Vettes for several years. I thought that these cars must have had deteriorating performance since they were up to 10 years old, but was similarly disappointed in a '97 Z28 Camaro LE, which was almost new. This led me to theorize that cars with 10" or wider tires have so much grip that it takes a tremendous amount of force to lock up during braking. The fact that ABS is involved further confuses the issue. By my 'seat-of-the-pants' decelerometer, these cars were not stopping as fast as my Honda Civic. I'm not confusing overly-assisted power brakes with the feeling of the seatbelt pulling hard on you during braking.
I have GS brakes and braided SS lines waiting to be installed on my '94. I didn't expect these to alleviate the 'problem', but I hope they'll stop the car faster with the same (high) effort.
So, thanks in advance for your replies, and criticisms of my 'theory' :boxing

2dogs

I think I would rate mine above normal to any other car than high-end sports cars. For sure better than the Wife's Prelude!

Preacher

I don't have any problems stopping my C4.... it brakes as well as any car I have owned, better than most.

jackdaroofer

:cheers: C4 braking was a weakness from the get go!

In 1988 they went to the dual piston front calipers with the 12" roters and this was a big improvement.

I was happy with mine until I upgraded to C5 front roters and calipers! Stopping distances, even from just 60 mph greatly reduced :D

Love the C5 front brakes and next winter I will install the dual piston calipers on the rear.

Also, I installed the DRM front/rear proportioning spring to put more effort into the rear brakes and this was a big help also :D

Stops on a dime now! In fact you can feel it push you forward in the seat even under moderatly hard braking

:steering:

JCAIRE2

Same here, only I had to replace the booster, and make some fine adjustments to the pushrod length. :cheers:

Stingraynut

My 88 stops Ok but needs much more pedal pressure than ordinary cars and I don't see why that is. Especially with the dual pistons etc. I'm guessing that the booster should be 20% stronger/larger or whatever.

I'm getting used to it but it seems inefficient.

S'nut

MyZ51

My 86's brakes are terrible in the rain, anybody have problems with this?

rcdk

C4 PBR calipers require higher line pressures, resulting in a lot more pedal effort.

oldace84

The '84's have very weak brakes......but good enough to run on the street....
But I would like to update them...just don't know how....
tony
:eek:

Mez

My personal experience when I installed the NAPA Ceramix what the first maximum stop I had to really stand on them. I think that bed them in as after that, they did not take much effort to get maximum stopping. Perhaps the pads are glazed.

VetNutJim

The ABSOLUTE MOST any brake can do is stop the wheel/tire from turning.
There is no more a brake system can do.

My 84 has GREAT brakes.
I can easily do this with my 84 Vette at any speed. Stand on the brakes, stop the tires from turning. It is easily predictable. Like any good brake system should be.

My 91 WILL NOT stop the wheel/tire from turning. It has the ABS system and apparently the system keeps the wheels from totally stopping like I WANT them to do sometimes.
Having control of wheel rotation is something I learned to use long ago.
It can be used for directional control, etc.

I know the benefits that ABS offer but I'm just not too sure I, personally, am the one to appreciate those benefits.

Make sure you have no vacumn leaks and the one way vacumn check valve at the rear of your manifold is still good. They DO go bad in time and can cause a low vacumn situation and reduce the power boost your brakes are experiencing.
Good luck with it.

Oh. ONE MORE THING.

I put the metallic brake pads on my 91. When they are hot, they stop pretty good. Probably good as it gets with ABS brakes.
When they are COLD, forget IT. They stop like poopie. THIS IS BAD.
WHY? When you need your brakes in an emergency situation (say someone pulls out in front of you) will you have time to "heat'em up good"? NOT.
These type brakes may be good for track drivimg where you get them up to temp and keep them there. For street driving, FORGETABOUTIT!!!
Get yourself some standard ORGANIC pads if you can get them.
They are cheaper. They wear your rotors less too.
They don't last as long but SO WHAT? THey are cheap and easy to change.
Leave the metallic pads for the track.
That's all for now.



[Modified by VetNutJim, 11:50 PM 5/16/2003]

Slalom4me

The brakes on my '89 were/are a disappointment.

The press (C/D, R/T & ect.) on these cars over
the years had left me with the impression that
they were powerful. Wrongo!

The car was damaged cosmetically by the first
owner when she was unable to brake quickly
enough in an emergency. I got a wake-up call
on a 2-lane highway one cold day shortly after
purchasing it when a car with no brake lights
slowed for a left turn - I'm tall and was slouched
in a position where I was not immediately able
to apply the force necessary to overcome the
cold brakes. The adrenalin rush I got pulled
me through but the crease I puckered into
the seat is still there.

After this experience I found comments about
the problems racers had in the SS and CC series
during the m-l 80's and found many threads on
the Web with issues and comments about C4 brakes.

My system is in good shape. I do not know why
the high-effort design was let out the door, except
to think it was something the marketers thought
was in keeping with the macho image of Corvette.

By comparison, my 525 has marvelous brakes. 12"
all around, just like the Vette. The car has smaller
tires and weighs 300 lbs more. Yet, I would not
want to be in the Vette following myself in the
Bimmer if I engaged in an emergency stop in the
525. And the 525 doesn't even have the 'good'
brakes as supplied on the M5!

I participate in solo events and I know my times
would improve with better braking. Rather than
going the C5/GS caliper & rotor upgrade route,
I will be replacing the vacuum booster with a
Hydroboost from Hydratech. We'll see what
happens.




[Modified by Slalom4me, 11:02 AM 5/17/2003]

black bart

I think this is a subjective thing some will say the brakes are good orthers will be unhappy with them so I'll just say that after I installed 13.5 cross drilled rotors with C5 calipers also changed rear rotors and DRM spring for the porpropotioning valve Hawk HPS pads all the way around and braking is much better. I think the way to view this is not is the brakes as good as a Honda but are they as good as they could be.

Slalom4me

I know what you mean, but the problem is not due to the presence
of ABS. If the system had been designed to generate sufficient
braking torque, you would feel/hear the ABS engage when you
applied enough pressure to cause the wheels to lock - for people
who don't know what this feels like, try braking HARD in a safe
place on a slippery surface. IMHO - we should be able to get the
ABS to engage at will on dry surfaces from speeds of least 30
MPH with reasonable pedal pressure.

If you ever have an opportunity, participate in an emergency
lane change/braking demonstration with cars with ABS that
can be switched off. The Bondurant Mustangs used to be
equipped with switchable ABS - stopping distance and steering
control under braking were vastly better with ABS active.

You make excellent observations about maintenance and pad choice.

Atok

My '95 have the 13" rotors up front. Best brakes I ever drove hands down. Stops extremely well even at high speeds.

Stingraynut

This is an interesting post - I'm very interested in the replies.

As I see it, the question is not, "does your vette stop", but -
"do you have to stand on the pedal" - ie excess pedal pressure.

S'nut

rocco16

My Corvettes brakes are all I could hope for. It's a '96, with the stock 13" fronts, and it stops far better (and with no more effort) than my 16v Scirocco or my 3/4T vans.

Larry
code5coupe
:seeya

JCAIRE2

I can lock my tires up with toe-touch pressure from 5mph on up. If I really jam on the brakes, it feels like I'm gonna go right over the hood, lol.

rcdk

One possibility would be to find out what the stock master cylinder diameter is and go one smaller. It would result in a longer, easier pedal.

1MoorTym

:iagree: And I would agree that excess pedal pressure is required but is probably normal. I qeustioned this when I first got the car. It stopped fine, but seemed to require more effort than necessary. Since it is (was) a high mileage car I thought something was wrong, but when my nephew drove it and compared it to his much newer and lower mileage 91 he claimed it to be fine.