Nathan Plemons

After doing the brakes on my friend's car this weekend I started thinking about mine again. My car does not have the heavy duty braking option so that means I've got plenty of room for improvement.

I absolutely love the look of the Baer Eradispeed Rotors. They are also a bolt on replacement for cars with the heavy duty brake option, they don't offer those rotors for cars with standard brakes. Essentially all the Baer kit is for this car then is new rotors. Of course I would have to buy the larger calipers and such to make it work.

The other option is the C5 brake upgrade. I've actually heard that the C5 brakes are better than the Baer C4 brakes. Then of course you could always upgrade to the C5 calipers and use Baer C5 rotors and have a system that borders on insanely awesome.

The problem is that C5 calipers won't clear my wheels. I'm not really interested in putting other wheels on my car either. In my mind with the green nothing else really looks right anyway. I guess that limits my options back to stuff that was made for the C4 which I can accept.

Anyway what I'm looking for is information. Does anybody have any documented comparisons between the following:

C4 Standard Brakes
C4 Heavy Duty Brakes
C4 Heavy Duty Brakes w/ Baer Rotors
C5 Ugrade
C5 Upgrade w/ Baer Rotors

Jeffvette

Are you exceeding the limits of your brakes currently, do you autocross, road race?

If you don't want to change rims you are limited.

12" stockers with decent rotors and pads
13" ZR-1/GS with decent rotors and pads
13" C5 kit with spacers

The Baer calipers are a waste in my opinion as they are almost identical to the ZR-1/GS calipers

MYCoupe

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. Right now I have the standard 12" rotors and want to upgrade as well, but don't have the money for new wheels. I'm going to go with the C4 Heavy Duty Brakes w/ Baer Rotors option. For everyday street driving I believe that it's a good setup. Remember that brake pads also play an important role in the overall package. I'm sure that the C4 Heavy Duty Brakes w/ Baer Rotors and good brake pads would feel and perform just as good or better than the C5 Ugrade with crappy pads.

John Row

IMHO: For the money the Eradispeed rotors won't help braking very much. The are very pretty, but if you have the standard Vette wheels, you can't see the rotors anyway.

You can get J55 (HD) rotors for about $150/pr. I bought a pair of PowerSlot rotors for $160 about a year ago.

If you don't do twisty racing, stick with the standard set and good pads. They'll stop you once just as well as the bigger rotors (same size pads). The 13" rotors only advantage is that they will dissipate more heat faster, i.e. many repeated stops.

loiq

If you convert to C5 brakes you can get Wilwood or StopTech rotors with billet hats and have a better system than the Baer Eradispeed for about the same $$ or less, depending on how lucky you get when shopping for parts.

My .02, I'm no expert, though.

all4c4lt4

FWIW, here's what I discovered when researching for a new brake package:
1996 Corvette (J55) 60 -0 121 ft.
1997 Corvette 60 - 0 125 ft.
2000 Corvtte 60 - 0 123 ft.

Obviously, these stats are not solely indicative of "good" braking performance. However, the J55 setup performs well. With some good fluid, pads, and a brake duct cooling system brake fade will surely be reduced too. If you are not going to see the new brakes behind your wheels, it would cme down to how much you wanted to spend. In my case, I'm sticking with my stock J55's until I can afford an aftermarket package (i.e. non-C5). I don't know what the cost difference would be between the J55 upgrade and the C5 upgrade, but I don't think the performance difference between these two would be greatly noticeable, JMO.

Ruby6spd

I have a C4 with the Baer/Eradi kit and I can overheat them with spirited driving. With this I mean twisty roads with heavy braking with top speeds in the 100 to 90 range. They were a 300% improvement over the stock 12inchers I had on there though.

My Z06 has the stock brakes and pads on it and they are marginally better than what is on my C4. The are good but not great in my opinion. My car is going to be getting a cam and some gears this winter at which time the added power and speed capability will make the short comings of the C5 system apparent. It will then be time to step up to a brembo or alcon system with 14" rotors

bogus

the real problem with C4 calipers is the lack of heat venting in the top of them... they will warp like crazy after repeated high speed stops.

The GS calipers are the best of the C4 group, thickest metal, better heat dissapation, ect... but they are not as good as C5 brakes, which are not as good as aftermarket.

C5 brakes have the same problem, but at least they have a heat vent!

another factor with braking performance is the tire! Without good traction, nothing will stop...

I would do the GS 13" upgrade... well... that's what I did... and I have not had any brake related problems... I am currently running NAPA Ceramatalix or whatever they are called and SS brake lines. Great feel, and on the road, some of the best stopping power available.

Oh, alignment has an effect on breaking performance... it can harm the effectiveness of anti-squat/anti-dive geometries...

Nathan Plemons

Just so everybody knows my intentions. The car is my daily driver and I really don't race it that much. On occassion when I do take it to the drag strip I always take the 3rd turn and let the engine slow me down. I never autocross nor do I have any desire to do so. When I do any spirited driving I rarely even hit the brakes. I typically do all my spirited driving on roads that I know like the back of my hand, as such I'll drive them using the engine and my gears to slow me down. If I actually have to get on the brakes something has gone wrong.

Now all that being said why do I want bigger brakes? Well there's no reason not to have better brakes. All the speed in the world does you no good unless you can stop. Although have no complaints with my current brake setup I just don't feel like it's on par with the rest of the car. I've added a lot of horsepower and have barely even touched the brakes. I put nice pads on it and flushed the fluid but I really feel like I could do more.

The reason I look at the Baer rotors is a good deal cosmetic. Even though you couldn't see much of them behind the stock sawblade wheels you could see them if you really looked which is fine with me. Also the theory behind a slotted rotor is sound, at least in my mind. Cross drilled and slotted is supposed to be better still, etc. Then when looking at the different cross drilled and slotted rotors available I like the Baer the best from a cosmetic standpoint. If I did calipers I would maintin the stock heavy duty or ZR-1 / Grand Sport calipers, whatever you would want to call them. I've seen the Baer calipers and there is virtually no difference, so why pay for it?

I also wouldn't be opposed to any of the other third party systems like Brembo, etc. I just know Baer makes essentially a "bolt on" setup, meaning that it even clears the stock wheels.

Here's my criteria really

1. Has to stop better than current setup
2. Has to clear stock wheels
3. Has to maintain parking brake
4. Would be a major plus if it looked cool.

John Row

Based on your driving habits and the post above
Your stock brakes fill the bill, note same sweep area for 12" and 13" rotors (same pads!), to improve them: good pads, DRM Bias spring & good flush and bleed. To cover item 4, clean and paint the calipers red.

Even if you get the G/S calipers you can only see the "CORVETTE" when someone is driving beside you at >65MPH. You can't see the rotors unless you get down on your knees with a flashlight or have the hood open and you are standing on your head.

Spend the money on new wheels first. Then go for the drill and slot show.

Nathan Plemons

Granted the J55 rotors have the same swept area the rotors are a good deal thicker which means they will dissipate heat better.

The cosmetic thing is pretty much just for me :)

John Row

Sounds like you've made up your mind.

It's hard to beat "I want it because I want it" logic :D . That's why we all have Vettes. None of us truely NEED one.

:cheers:

Darkness

And being larger diameter provides greater periferical speed which in tems provide the caliper with better control and faster decceleration. :)

C10 JDR

I Dont think the swept area really matters. Friction is independent of contact area. If it is a smaller contact area, the force per unit area will go up. If you stand on a pair of weighing scales with shoes 2 sizes too big, it doesn't make you any heavier.

The diameter of the disc (rotor) will matter though, if you move the caliper outwards, there is more leverage. ( Is it easier to turn your rear wheels by gripping the tyre, or by taking the wheel off and gripping the rotor?)

I would therefore expect all 12', and all 13' systems to perform the same (given same pad material etc.)

Perform the same that is on the first stop. After that the system heats up, and the more metal in the disc, and the better the cooling vanes or slots or whatever, and the cooler the brakes stay, the better the car stops.

I have converted my 89 to C5 brakes, not because the standard JL9 brakes were poor in normal operation, but because whencoming down twisty mountains, at the bottom there were virtually no brakes at all.

THe C5 brakes are normally a little bit better than the old brakes (bigger rotors), but after a lot of fast twisty road work they are incomparably better.
If you want better braking performance and you don't warm up the brakes too much, the answer is simple -

Use softer pads. (Imagine pads made of rubber, instead of wood)

These are the reasons that the three braking systems quoted are pretty similar, they were all cool.

These are my opinions. These are brakes.

:D


[Modified by britvette, 11:03 PM 9/2/2003]

vader86

The baer rotors are really just for looks, they wouldnt help that much in normal stopping, although they will hold up better in an autox

I would either to the GS/ZR1 upgrade or wait til i could afford a Alcon 4 or 6 piston setup.

loiq

Another thing to consider is stock C5 brake parts are surprisingly cheap.
Here's more info for you: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=581163 http://www.superchevyperformance.com/misc/c5brakes.asp
:seeya

Darkness

This theory came out of the azz!!! So your saying that bigger swept area isnt an improvement?!?!?! What a joke. Bigger swept are equals better traction given the same force. So do you think people get wider tires for better traction???

vader86

:skep: do what?

The coefficient of friction doesnt depend on the size of the contact area, but the total work done by the system is greater in braking if the size of the pads and rotors are larger compared to a smaller system.

C10 JDR

The total work done by the system is the work put in by your foot (less a few losses here and there)

vader86

youre not thinking enough about it :nono: