RED96LT4

I just took my C4 in again for it's bi-annual SMOG test and notice that the engine is just barely passing on the oxides of nitrogen test - As I've had this vehicle since new, I decided to review the two previous tests performed in January 2002 and January 2000 to look for trends - The trend that I most easily spotted is that the required limits have been reduced every time the vehicle has been tested - The limits were 1212ppm in 2000, reduced to 988ppm in 2002 and furthur reduced to only 424ppm for 2002 -
The following questions come to mind:
Isn't it unreasonable to expect a 7 year old vehicle to produce 1/3 the emission levels that it did when it was new?

How is GM / Chevrolet supposed to guarantee the emissions system for 7 years if they don't know what the test limits are going to be in 7 years?

How am I going to get my vette to pass in 2006 when the limits may be lower than the emissions were when the vette was new?

Any suggestions?

kman0066

Move out of Calif. or get an electric car :crazy:

steve40th

Class Action suite. They cant lower the requirements for your car. Thats like saying a 79 needs to pass 2003 emissions. Call Arnolds Office. Okay , Off the soap box, I am sorry.
I think it is wrong, and somebody is not doing the emisson tests correctly.

Caboboy

This is pretty frustrating stuff.......did you get flagged to a test only, or just a regular "smog cert required" notice? It appears there might also be some sort of a "selective enforcement" program on certain vehicles, including the C4 generation.
Check my thread in the Pacific Section and reply if you would please:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=719197

MyBlueC5

I don't know if it's going to be different than NC (Since NC is only second to CA in emission testing) but in 1996, we go to an OBDII testing.... which means they plug the unit into the computer, they don't actually do a smog test. What they're basically looking for are codes. (Just for the record, you can't just reset the computer by disconnecting the battery... there has to be so many miles on it)

In 2006, anything 1995 or older becomes a safety inspection only.

As far as the rpm difference, there is a "window" that they have to have the car revving at. Things like fresh oil will lower the Hydrocarbons.

Good Luck

Mark

RED96LT4

Steve:

Thanks for your interest! This was a TEST ONLY required this time as well as back in 2000, but the 2002 test was not required TEST ONLY - I always take the car to the same TEST ONLY as I've had two repair stations trying to cheat me in the past on other cars and this TEST ONLY guy is at least honest -

Regarding whether the test if being performed correctly, my first instinct was to call the local dealer and talk to one of the tech personnel - He seemed to be familiar with the problem and said to bring it in and they'd see what they could do - As my car is still under the 7 year 70K mile emissions warranty, I figured I'd get Chevrolet to fix it - Now that I see that the test limits are being changed every year, I realize that's no long term solution as Chevrolet will just improve it enough to pass this year (which is more than GM signed up to do from the start) but no way will it pass in another 2 years if DMV cuts the limit again - Also, at that time, the emission warranty will be history, and so no help from Chevrolet -

scorp508

There are ways around that. :blueangel: :yesnod:

65Z01

If not a class action against CARB at least contact SEMA (http://www.sema.org/) as they have successfully carried some of our fights against state govs in the past.

USA-VET

MOVE!! Sorry! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Jeffvette

:iagree:


There isn't enough money or free poosay to make me move to that state. Oregon has done the same thing. Upped the standards for older cars. :mad

MyBlueC5

[QUOTE There are ways around that. :blueangel: :yesnod:[/QUOTE]

Shy of sending the computer out and having certain functions disabled, what do you know? Tell us, inquiring minds want to know.

Mark

Aggravated4life

My Minivan has OBD2 and I can simply use the scanner to clear Historical and current codes anytime.
This also works on the Vette.Dont have the smog testing here but I use this method to see if when a problem happens and throws a code and i fix it,i dont have to disconnect the battery anymore.One command on the scanner and its gone and doesnt come back if the problem is fixed.I believe this is a method that can be used unless the newer cars and the TECH2 scanners can dig it up out of a stored area we dont know about?
:crazy:

MyBlueC5

Bill,

In NC, when they hook the OBDII scanner that is hooked into the DMV in Raleigh, it reads something that tells it if the computer has been reset recently. Honestly, I'm not sure how it knows but I know it happens because it happened to a car I needed to get inspected for a customer of mine. I had to reset the SRS light and took it in for an inspection. It failed and the station told me I had to drive it for 50-100 miles.

Anyway...

Mark



[Modified by C4 Newbie, 9:36 PM 12/31/2003]

kman0066

To pass a car with ODBII you just need to find the proper values for the sensor that is throwing the code. Some you can just disconnect while others will require a certain resistor which you can usually find the ratings in a manual and the resistor at Radio Shack. :nono: O2 sensors are a little harder but can be done, plus it might look suspicious having a perfect A/f ratio all the time :)

SunCr

Weird - I've always assumed allowable limits increase with the age of the vehicle. CARB gets it's authority under the Health & Safety Code and the legislature has to approve the regs - the only thing I'm aware of in the last year was the new regs for CO2 - 2008 phase in? - continuation of smog credits for crushing cars & closed fuel system standards for motorcycles. Sure hope they didn't sneak one by us!

larryfs

NY does the same thing. the values keep getting tighter on all my cars.
in fact my van did not pass this year, and barely missed by .01

my 89 TPI motor still passes, but who know what 5 years will bring!

65Z01

It looks like a real boon for Motor City; if regs get tighter on used cars each year everyone will soon have to by only new cars every 3-5yrs.

Now, lets all go out and give a great bug hug to our favorite tree. :mad

Upstate

Could you elaborate some Larry? I am assuming this is a down state greater NYC area requirement. The dealer I bring my vehicles to performs safety inspections only.

{EDIT} Should have added visual for emmisions too. {EDIT}


[Modified by Upstate, 5:54 PM 1/1/2004]

Sportryder

Yes, testing requirements are getting tighter everywhere. If you want to pass, two words - PAY OFF! It should be easy enough to find someone to pass you for $100 in Corruptionfornia.

SunCr

Well, I've been poking around the EPA and CARB sites just to find out what the standards are or were or may be and couldn't find anything that made any sense (to me). The best was at the Bureau of Automotive Repair (which has links to all the other States). Here's what they say on their FAQ page:

"Have California vehicle emissions standards changed?

In 1996, BAR adjusted some standards to increase their fairness. As a result, some standards are slightly more stringent than they were previously and some are slightly more lenient than before. Updated emissions standards categories were created for many of the newer cars; the new groupings take into consideration the dramatic changes in automotive technology which have occurred during the past 15 years. California's emissions standards consider the model year, vehicle type, and gross vehicle weight. Older cars have looser standards than newer ones. No vehicle is ever held to a standard intended for a car which is newer or technologically more advanced, and allowance is made for normal wear and tear in a vehicle's emissions control system as it ages. In fact, Smog Check failure rates for all vehicles have decreased since the new guidelines were implemented."

Web is http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov