Denatured Alcohol to pass emmisions
01-20-2016, 07:15 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
I've brewed up a few martinis using lamp fuel from home depot (denatured alchy) and drained the tank, and brewed up the "cocktail"
I used 2 gal gas, and 1 gal alchy knowing there is a few gallons left in the tank even after draining it. you can also pump out the tank and get even more out.
If you get too much alchy, the car will run like crap and you should drain the tank, mix in more gas, and try again.
But I agree for an LT5 with stock cams you should be able to pass, but it's not easy. Main problem is the CATS, and for sure use a stock chip (lots of folks will loan you one, and they are cheap too).
in my case, I was trying to ginch a LPE 390 stroker with big cams and "marginal" random high flow cats through similar VA draconian emissions crap.
the old LSV was running a bit rich at low throttle and the random cats were already pretty spent.
this was a LONG time ago (5 years) and I lowered the HC from 120 down to 98 which was the upper limit in VA
now the "commonwealth" (they take your hard earned $$ to help the common folk :> ) lowered the HC from 98 to 48 and a big stroker 390 LT5 with big valves and stg II cams will NOT get this done with random cats as they don't clean up the exh enough and as Frank mentioned they "go away" quickly Even brand new randoms might not be enough if the car is slightly out of tune.
here in wazoo land Phil rigged up the "test kit" a pair of HUGE OEM style cats for the headers that do a much better job of cleaning up the HC than the random flow cats which. The random cats are low restriction and "low cleaning too". After 2 years (or less in my case) they are spent. After 4 years I took them off the LSV and saw the centers had disintegrated and were completely gone. Not much cleaning going on there !!!
7500 and 500+ at the tire will do that, they aren't OEM quality and the stainless "honeycomb" is very thin and brittle to get the high flow characteristics.
another "trick" that is likely almost as cheap (but huge in the hassle category) is find some LT5 low mile stock manifolds/cats lots of folks dump them relatively cheap!! they are out there. now that the heat shields are off it's relatively ez to bolt up the stock stuff, or get ya some cheap "high effeciency cats" in place of the randoms. ( have a fresh set of magnaflow bullet cats I'll sell cheap if you need them!!)
good luck with getting through. make sure to take the car and run the snot out of it with some combustion cleaner well in advance of the test and get the car good and hot right before going through. The LT5 is a carbon machine and most of the time the engine is trundling along around 2k rpms so it needs to clear it's throat !!!
Be carefule with the WOT blasts, I like to do a few dyno runs, you'll be amazed at what the car pukes out holding WOT for a bit. I had some old jeans with carbon specs all over them from enjoying the WOT blasts at dyno day).
I used 2 gal gas, and 1 gal alchy knowing there is a few gallons left in the tank even after draining it. you can also pump out the tank and get even more out.
If you get too much alchy, the car will run like crap and you should drain the tank, mix in more gas, and try again.
But I agree for an LT5 with stock cams you should be able to pass, but it's not easy. Main problem is the CATS, and for sure use a stock chip (lots of folks will loan you one, and they are cheap too).
in my case, I was trying to ginch a LPE 390 stroker with big cams and "marginal" random high flow cats through similar VA draconian emissions crap.
the old LSV was running a bit rich at low throttle and the random cats were already pretty spent.
this was a LONG time ago (5 years) and I lowered the HC from 120 down to 98 which was the upper limit in VA
now the "commonwealth" (they take your hard earned $$ to help the common folk :> ) lowered the HC from 98 to 48 and a big stroker 390 LT5 with big valves and stg II cams will NOT get this done with random cats as they don't clean up the exh enough and as Frank mentioned they "go away" quickly Even brand new randoms might not be enough if the car is slightly out of tune.
here in wazoo land Phil rigged up the "test kit" a pair of HUGE OEM style cats for the headers that do a much better job of cleaning up the HC than the random flow cats which. The random cats are low restriction and "low cleaning too". After 2 years (or less in my case) they are spent. After 4 years I took them off the LSV and saw the centers had disintegrated and were completely gone. Not much cleaning going on there !!!
7500 and 500+ at the tire will do that, they aren't OEM quality and the stainless "honeycomb" is very thin and brittle to get the high flow characteristics.
another "trick" that is likely almost as cheap (but huge in the hassle category) is find some LT5 low mile stock manifolds/cats lots of folks dump them relatively cheap!! they are out there. now that the heat shields are off it's relatively ez to bolt up the stock stuff, or get ya some cheap "high effeciency cats" in place of the randoms. ( have a fresh set of magnaflow bullet cats I'll sell cheap if you need them!!)
good luck with getting through. make sure to take the car and run the snot out of it with some combustion cleaner well in advance of the test and get the car good and hot right before going through. The LT5 is a carbon machine and most of the time the engine is trundling along around 2k rpms so it needs to clear it's throat !!!
Be carefule with the WOT blasts, I like to do a few dyno runs, you'll be amazed at what the car pukes out holding WOT for a bit. I had some old jeans with carbon specs all over them from enjoying the WOT blasts at dyno day).
Last edited by Rkreigh; 01-20-2016 at 07:18 AM.
The following users liked this post:
atc104 (01-20-2016)
01-20-2016, 08:17 AM
#22
Racer
I have been going through this regiment every year to pass Texas emissions since I bought the car in 2010 and added headers, bullet cats, and B and B exhaust. Luckily after 2018 my car will age out of testing. What I do is the following:
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
6. Pass test
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
8. Enjoy driving another year.
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
6. Pass test
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
8. Enjoy driving another year.
01-20-2016, 12:33 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
New cats really did the trick. I just looked at my last smog tests...
15 MPH HC went from 84 to 3 NOx went from 987 to 148
25 MPH HC went from 22 to 0 NOx went from 554 to 245
01-20-2016, 08:37 PM
#24
Navigator
Hi
Thanks for recepie, but I still have some questions here;
The only thing I am failing is [NO] in CA Allowable 454 , my reading 466 (not much difference or almost there).
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
how do I know what chip do I have and where is it?
where would I get original chip if I need one?
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
= 4 gallons of original good (93) fuel left
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
= crappy , low octane gas
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
where is this on 91 C4 ZR 1
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
aren't you worry, it will ruin your engine: by running it extra hot, or desolve rubber gaskets etc.
6. Pass test
hopefully
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
I get this, you dilute, all junk , that was put in earlier
Rgds
Mike
Thanks for recepie, but I still have some questions here;
The only thing I am failing is [NO] in CA Allowable 454 , my reading 466 (not much difference or almost there).
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
how do I know what chip do I have and where is it?
where would I get original chip if I need one?
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
= 4 gallons of original good (93) fuel left
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
= crappy , low octane gas
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
where is this on 91 C4 ZR 1
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
aren't you worry, it will ruin your engine: by running it extra hot, or desolve rubber gaskets etc.
6. Pass test
hopefully
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
I get this, you dilute, all junk , that was put in earlier
Rgds
Mike
01-21-2016, 03:10 AM
#25
Drifting
I can help you with #1 (stock prom(chip) with latest GM stock calibration, if you need it.
Last edited by pewter99; 07-05-2016 at 08:27 PM.
The following users liked this post:
atc104 (01-21-2016)
01-21-2016, 07:15 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
What is nice here in PA, is that if you don't drive over 5000 miles per year, you do not need an emissions test for the year. They just do a visual, (I forget if they do a gas cap check on my 94, they do with my 82)Works great for me and other enthusiasts who keep their mileage down.
01-21-2016, 08:49 AM
#27
Racer
Hi
Thanks for recepie, but I still have some questions here;
The only thing I am failing is [NO] in CA Allowable 454 , my reading 466 (not much difference or almost there). That's great, if I remember correctly the denatured alcohol will bring down to near 0.
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
how do I know what chip do I have and where is it?
where would I get original chip if I need one?
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
= 4 gallons of original good (93) fuel left
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
= crappy , low octane gas
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
where is this on 91 C4 ZR 1 - The brake booster hose is a good one to use and I think there is another fairly large hose near the firewall but I don't remember if I used it.
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
aren't you worry, it will ruin your engine: by running it extra hot, or desolve rubber gaskets etc. - It's not acid, lol. Just don't leave the alcohol in your fuel system for very long and you should be fine. Like I said I've been doing this routine for five years without issue. If you search the net for denatured alcohol you will find plenty of others using similar methods to solve their emissions issues as well.
6. Pass test
hopefully. You are essentially burning the alcohol as fuel and the alcohol is very clean.
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
I get this, you dilute, all junk , that was put in earlier
Rgds
Mike
Thanks for recepie, but I still have some questions here;
The only thing I am failing is [NO] in CA Allowable 454 , my reading 466 (not much difference or almost there). That's great, if I remember correctly the denatured alcohol will bring down to near 0.
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
how do I know what chip do I have and where is it?
where would I get original chip if I need one?
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
= 4 gallons of original good (93) fuel left
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
= crappy , low octane gas
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
where is this on 91 C4 ZR 1 - The brake booster hose is a good one to use and I think there is another fairly large hose near the firewall but I don't remember if I used it.
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
aren't you worry, it will ruin your engine: by running it extra hot, or desolve rubber gaskets etc. - It's not acid, lol. Just don't leave the alcohol in your fuel system for very long and you should be fine. Like I said I've been doing this routine for five years without issue. If you search the net for denatured alcohol you will find plenty of others using similar methods to solve their emissions issues as well.
6. Pass test
hopefully. You are essentially burning the alcohol as fuel and the alcohol is very clean.
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
I get this, you dilute, all junk , that was put in earlier
Rgds
Mike
Last edited by Kris_K; 01-21-2016 at 08:51 AM.
The following users liked this post:
atc104 (01-26-2016)
01-25-2016, 10:34 PM
#28
Drifting
i've put in a quart of denatured alcohol in mine with a qtr tank of premium, and it helped me to pass. i run the stock chip, but have SW headers, high flow cats, and 3" B&B exhaust. Also, try to find a shop that will do the inspection without putting it on the dyno roller.
The following users liked this post:
atc104 (01-26-2016)
01-26-2016, 09:02 AM
#29
Racer
i've put in a quart of denatured alcohol in mine with a qtr tank of premium, and it helped me to pass. i run the stock chip, but have SW headers, high flow cats, and 3" B&B exhaust. Also, try to find a shop that will do the inspection without putting it on the dyno roller.
Last edited by Kris_K; 01-26-2016 at 09:02 AM.
01-28-2016, 11:27 AM
#30
Pro
I have been going through this regiment every year to pass Texas emissions since I bought the car in 2010 and added headers, bullet cats, and B and B exhaust. Luckily after 2018 my car will age out of testing. What I do is the following:
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
6. Pass test
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
8. Enjoy driving another year.
1. Replace hi-po chip with stock one.
2. Ensure fuel gauge is down to one bar.
3. Add a gallon of regular (87) gas.
4. Seafoam through one of the larger manifold vacuum hoses to clean out all the old gunk in the engine. (don't drive around after this)
5. The morning of the test add a gallon of denatured alcohol
6. Pass test
7. Fill tank with super (93) gas.
8. Enjoy driving another year.
See below:
Actual test results, under load on "emissions" dyno:
RPM 1386
Standard Actual Result
HC (ppm) 120 50 Pass
CO (%) 0.67 0.07 Pass
CO2 (%) 15.5
O2 (%) 9.2
NOX (ppm) 848 222 Pass
Dilution >6.0 15.57 Pass
RPM 1192
Standard Actual Result
HC (ppm) 124 53 Pass
CO (%) 0.69 0.07 Pass
CO2 (%) 15.4
O2 (%) 4.7
NOX (ppm) 937 273 Pass
Dilution >6.0 15.47 Pass
Sorry the formatting didn't come out clear. I've listed the results in the following order "Standard, Actual, Results".. The first number in each row is the emissions standard here in Texas, the second number is the actual test result and the third entry is Pass or Fail. For reference on '91 LT5 w/Haibeck chip, stock exhaust, cams & intake.
I installed SW Headers, Metal Matrix/HiFlo cats, full 3" SW exhaust and mufflers and shipped my piggyback chip back to Marc Haibeck. He added fuel and anti-backfire tune. I took it back the following year and put it on the rollers again. Passed with no issues at all. Did not have to do anything to the fuel or tune to get it to pass. This year, only safety inspection in Texas since I've hit the magic 25 years.. I'll see if I can find the emissions results with the Headers, HiFlo cats and new tune and post up.
01-28-2016, 11:56 AM
#31
I've got a '91 with Marc's chip in it. Live in Houston so have had it on rollers to complete OBD I emissions testing. With stock manifolds and cats and flowmaster exhaust, it passed fine..
See below:
Actual test results, under load on "emissions" dyno:
RPM 1386
Standard Actual Result
HC (ppm) 120 50 Pass
CO (%) 0.67 0.07 Pass
CO2 (%) 15.5
O2 (%) 9.2
NOX (ppm) 848 222 Pass
Dilution >6.0 15.57 Pass
RPM 1192
Standard Actual Result
HC (ppm) 124 53 Pass
CO (%) 0.69 0.07 Pass
CO2 (%) 15.4
O2 (%) 4.7
NOX (ppm) 937 273 Pass
Dilution >6.0 15.47 Pass
Sorry the formatting didn't come out clear. I've listed the results in the following order "Standard, Actual, Results".. The first number in each row is the emissions standard here in Texas, the second number is the actual test result and the third entry is Pass or Fail. For reference on '91 LT5 w/Haibeck chip, stock exhaust, cams & intake.
I installed SW Headers, Metal Matrix/HiFlo cats, full 3" SW exhaust and mufflers and shipped my piggyback chip back to Marc Haibeck. He added fuel and anti-backfire tune. I took it back the following year and put it on the rollers again. Passed with no issues at all. Did not have to do anything to the fuel or tune to get it to pass. This year, only safety inspection in Texas since I've hit the magic 25 years.. I'll see if I can find the emissions results with the Headers, HiFlo cats and new tune and post up.
See below:
Actual test results, under load on "emissions" dyno:
RPM 1386
Standard Actual Result
HC (ppm) 120 50 Pass
CO (%) 0.67 0.07 Pass
CO2 (%) 15.5
O2 (%) 9.2
NOX (ppm) 848 222 Pass
Dilution >6.0 15.57 Pass
RPM 1192
Standard Actual Result
HC (ppm) 124 53 Pass
CO (%) 0.69 0.07 Pass
CO2 (%) 15.4
O2 (%) 4.7
NOX (ppm) 937 273 Pass
Dilution >6.0 15.47 Pass
Sorry the formatting didn't come out clear. I've listed the results in the following order "Standard, Actual, Results".. The first number in each row is the emissions standard here in Texas, the second number is the actual test result and the third entry is Pass or Fail. For reference on '91 LT5 w/Haibeck chip, stock exhaust, cams & intake.
I installed SW Headers, Metal Matrix/HiFlo cats, full 3" SW exhaust and mufflers and shipped my piggyback chip back to Marc Haibeck. He added fuel and anti-backfire tune. I took it back the following year and put it on the rollers again. Passed with no issues at all. Did not have to do anything to the fuel or tune to get it to pass. This year, only safety inspection in Texas since I've hit the magic 25 years.. I'll see if I can find the emissions results with the Headers, HiFlo cats and new tune and post up.
RPM 1386
..............Standard.....Actual.....Result
HC (ppm).....120..........50.........Pass
CO (%).......0.67........0.07........Pass
CO2 (%).....15.5
O2 (%)........9.2
NOX (ppm)..848.........222.........Pass
Dilution......>6.0.......15.57........Pass
RPM 1192
...............Standard......Actual.....Result
HC (ppm).....124............53.........Pass
CO (%).......0.69..........0.07........Pass
CO2 (%)......15.4
O2 (%).........4.7
NOX (ppm)...937..........273.........Pass
Dilution......>6.0.........15.47........Pass
Last edited by glass slipper; 01-28-2016 at 11:57 AM.
01-28-2016, 02:49 PM
#32
Team Owner
CA rules are just plain stupid!
And you know what I might go through the same BS here in Quebec in 2014. They want to follow CA rules because we have a bunch of stupid politician that have no brains and decide for a population of 8 millions people that mainly drive's Honda's and Toyota's !!! HELP ME!!!!
lol!
Last edited by DDSLT5; 01-28-2016 at 02:50 PM.
01-28-2016, 02:59 PM
#34
Race Director
Member Since: Feb 2002
Location: Compound in the Grove, Ga.
Posts: 11,327
Received 910 Likes
on
583 Posts
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods)
2018 C4 of Year Finalist
2015 C4 of the Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '16
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
I also have a 91 done with Marc's 510hp package and just easily passed my last test in Ga. Did nothing special, did not even change the oil from last year. 25 years old no more for me.
03-13-2016, 11:01 PM
#35
emissions
Great thing about living in Florida, no emissions, no visual, nothing. drive you car the way it is, no cats, headers, custom chip for horsepower and whatever cams... you can even run race fuel if you need it.. a little expensive but people do it. and,,, no state taxes....
ed ramos #3028
ed ramos #3028
03-14-2016, 11:17 AM
#36
Drifting
Frank is right about a stock chip with the 1-4 skip shift enabled. When we used to have to undergo emissions testing in Illinois, I always put in a stick chip because Marc discovered that shifting from second to third caused a enough of a spike in HC to fail the test. If they did the 1-4 shift (we had to coach them) on the rollers, no problem. --Bob
