thegame

This is a double edge sword. On one hand I'd be happy because the C7 is mine. On the other the vette guys are not as into cars as I am and mostly expect the ZR1 to lose to C6 LS2, LS3, and up. I think the ZR1 is being underrated by them.

Dominic Sorresso

Stock v Stock the C6s should do well. And I think the C7 is an animal. What's interesting about the LT5 is that it takes little to get it into the 400rwhp range. An equivalent cube LT-5 will likely beat a C6Z. If you look at a dyno sheet of an LT-5, what you see is a hp curve that stays pretty flat after the peak, not nosedive like an OHV motor. It really is more of a top end motor.
As for my first ZR, it became an irresistible force...

thegame

Very cool

Mr. Gizmo

My 1991 Zr1 would walk away from the C5 Ls1's and put a car length or 2 on C5 Z06's 385 hp variant and 405 hp variants from a roll race at 30 up to 110 120mph. I experimented a lot with other vette owners I worked with that had the C5's when I had my 91 zr1 back in the late 90's early 2000's.

Never raced a c4 LT4. But drove a couple. They had good torque but felt like they ran out of wind above 4500 rpm. the lt5 just started to hit its sweet spot at 4500.

the Base c6 430hp variant and C7's would put it to the C4Zr1.



Overall, my c4 zr1 felt less twitchy then my c6 Zo6. I think that is mainly a factor of the tires. the gatorbacks and GSC's are a much better all around tire then the good year run flats.

If the op is interested in facts - go out and do some web searchs on Car and driver posted times for 0-150 mph.

Thats a good bench mark of performance that is not entirely dependent on cutting a good 60 foot time like a 1/4 mile comparison

8388

The good o'le days at the mexican track

Tom400CFI

I'd say that's some pretty wishful thinking there. The C6 LS2 is ~a full second faster in the 1/4 mile than a ZR-1. I LOVE the ZR-1, but it's not beating LS2&^ 'Vettes. Sorry.

z06scentair

We shall see...

I've owned them all, and speak from personal experience here.

Believe me when I say this, 1/2 mile and up is where the LT5 shines.

Watch the video above. C5 Z06 will spank C6 LS2.

Tom400CFI

Where does that vid say anything about a C5 Z06? I saw a video of a C4 ZR-1 racing a 345hp C5.

The only way it is possible for a 3500 lb car to out accelerate a 3200 lb car is for the 3500 lb car to have more hp. Enough more to overcome the weight AND also out accelerate the car too. IDK of many STOCK ZR-1's that put down 370RWHP.

This isn't a mystery. The 1/4 mile times for C4 ZR-1's are well known; they range from mid 12's to low 13's. The 1/4 mile times for C5 Z06's, and C6's are likewise well documented; they are high 11's to mid 12's. Even being a "high end car", I don't see how it's possible for a ZR-1 to make up for a deficit like that, when it doesn't have more hp, and it also weighs more.

Are you saying that "from like 120 - 175 the ZR-1 pulls like a *****"? But at all other speeds, the car's HP isn't exploitable?
.

Dominic Sorresso

Tom,

I would not argue w what you say. Most totally stock ZRs are in the 335rwhp range. Some lower some higher depending on what shape cam phasing is in. OTOH, let's recall the LS2 is a 6L where the LT-5 is nominally 5.7L.
Now I COULD keep things "stock" on the LT-5 but even things up for the hp difference fairly easily with a higher rpm HP peak. I know of a N/A stock block 5.7L LT-5(modded Yes), that will run top end in the 1/2 mile w C6 ZR1s.
I'd love to see an LSx block w a set of the new Mercury Marine DOHC heads.

Tom400CFI

That, with. If you "even things up", in what ever way one chooses to rationalize that, it would change things dramatically.

z06scentair

You would never know if things have been "Evened Up" period. By the time one realizes this, it is too late.

And to answer your question I know of many stock LT5's with the "exception of headers" that are over 370 RWHP.

thegame

Alright well it has now gone from the ZR1 vs all these cars to more interest in the ZR1 vs my Z51 A8 Stingray. Most runs of the A8 in the C7 section have gone mid 11s at 120mph+. The best being 11.3 at 123mph. I don't think the ZR1 will top my A8 but I think it will give the LS2 all it can handle and lose by a small margin to the LS3 vette.

Tom400CFI

Indeed you may. *I* said:
See the "Stock" part? That is what is being talked about in this thread. Stock.

At my local track, there is a die-hard racer that shows up often with his '90 ZR-1. At our elevation, he runs 13.5x's consistently. I bought a C6. Bone stock, it ran a slew of 12.8's and 12.9's at our elevation. don't care how much of a "top end" car a ZR-1 is, it's not going to catch up when it's .7 behind at 110 mph already. And the LS3 is faster, the LT1 faster still.

I love the ZR-1 but face reality.

z06scentair

Never say Never!

like I said earlier I've owned them all, and still do own quite a few that have been referenced.

I will be the first to tell you the newer cars are impressive but a C6 LS2 will go down in a 1/2 mile race to a 25 year old LT5.

Tom400CFI

O.K.

LT5 must be more "magical" than I was aware of. Over here, it's high RPM version of the L98/TPI'ers and their "magical low end tork monsters".
The numbers are all out there...but somehow...these magical motors defy physics! TPI's beat LT1's, and LT5's make up over .7 seconds in the second half of a 1/2 mile. Sure thing!

EDIT: Question for you; You "own all these cars"...what are your cars' results at the drag track??

z06scentair

Possibly oneday you will own one!

Tom400CFI

Possibly....but if I do, I won't delude myself into believing that it's something that it's not. It's a fantastic car, and the best of it's time, IMO...but 400 hp is 400 hp, and there is no "magic" that changes that.

mike100

I think the LS3 car will beat the ZR-1 due to power/weight advantage. The only chance the 5.7 liter LT5 has is if the LS3 car has 1/2 worn runflats and won't hook up. I have both. a half a liter bigger engine and 200 lbs lighter curb weight is hard to overcome all on top end without doing more extensive mods than just headers.

I will say that I have driven a few different LT5 cars over the years and the cam timing variations make or break how good any one engine will pull (peak torque achieved). A good one will hang with a lot if you get a good jump on a roll race.

I was also able to pull a length by the top of second gear on a C5 Z06 with my 91 ZR (but that was with headers, chip, intake porting).

With stock exhaust and chip a 5.0 (coyote) mustang with 3.55's will beat the ZR-1 on a roll to 80 mph by about 2/3rds of a car.

So use that as a guide- maybe you should pair it up against the c5's and the LS2 C6's which will make it a fair matchup.

Tom400CFI

I'm starting to see a pattern here, w/these "top end" races...they'r'e not consistent or objective (much like any "street race") which is why I keep refering back to the Drag Track...which is structured and no B.S.

Been done already many times...in this thread, even, in post #33 when I said; No contest. .07sec/6 mph is a sound whoopin'.

DRM500RUBYZR-1

Tom,
I cherish reading many of your posts.
You almost always eventually degrade to these kinds of statements.

Why do I cherish them?

I use them as personal reminders to make sure that I avoid combining ignorance with arrogance.

Unlike the ZR-1 owners that you speak of, you choose to delude yourself in a different fashion by resorting to the opposite end of the argument spectrum, while always couching your beliefs as faint praise of the ZR-1.

You know of a specific ZR-1 that you witnessed never breaking out of the 13's. You state ranges for other cars, but specifics, clouded by your very limited personal experience with the ZR-1.

Your posts then follow that all "stock" ZR-1's must be equal to that, while you don't say it, it is clearly displayed in your flawed logic stream.

God forbid if you saw a dog with three legs. You would then be equally as certain that all dogs have only three legs.

When one comes at a discussion from a certain, clearly evident viewpoint, it clouds their objectivity. It must often be a very cloudy day in your neck of the woods.

You are bright enough to observe that point about ZR-1 owners, but you fail to observe it about your own.

Critical mistake.

So say what you wish, as dogmatically as you wish, but know what it actually conveys, and frankly few of us care.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, for as I said above, I find them helpful.


Marty