With an alum block... What makes the zr1 heavier than a c4 lt1?
09-03-2015, 10:51 AM
#21
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
This is the post that is stating the dual mass on the zr1 has a 60 lb flywheel.
Later posts disputed that. I didnt notice the later posts which is why i assumed the zr1 had a heavy flywheel.
Again, i think heavy flywheels serve no purpose other than to make the car easier to drive (less chance of stall) for non racers or people learning to drive stickshift.
Ive had it both ways and i will not go back to a heavy flywheel.
Later posts disputed that. I didnt notice the later posts which is why i assumed the zr1 had a heavy flywheel.
Again, i think heavy flywheels serve no purpose other than to make the car easier to drive (less chance of stall) for non racers or people learning to drive stickshift.
Ive had it both ways and i will not go back to a heavy flywheel.
09-03-2015, 11:37 AM
#22
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=dizwiz24;1590409830]This is the post that is stating the dual mass on the zr1 has a 60 lb flywheel.
Later posts disputed that. I didnt notice the later posts which is why i assumed the zr1 had a heavy flywheel.
Again, i think heavy flywheels serve no purpose other than to make the car easier to drive (less chance of stall) for non racers or people learning to drive stickshift.
That may be what you think, but that does not mean it is correct
Now do you really think that is why they put the dual mass flywheel on their "king of the hill" halo, high hp supercar?
The simple answer is No, that is not why they used the heavier setup.
do some simple searching and reading and you may then understand.
.[/QUOTE]
Marty
Later posts disputed that. I didnt notice the later posts which is why i assumed the zr1 had a heavy flywheel.
Again, i think heavy flywheels serve no purpose other than to make the car easier to drive (less chance of stall) for non racers or people learning to drive stickshift.
That may be what you think, but that does not mean it is correct
Now do you really think that is why they put the dual mass flywheel on their "king of the hill" halo, high hp supercar?
The simple answer is No, that is not why they used the heavier setup.
do some simple searching and reading and you may then understand.
.[/QUOTE]
Marty
Last edited by DRM500RUBYZR-1; 09-03-2015 at 11:44 AM. Reason: *
09-03-2015, 01:41 PM
#23
Race Director
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=DRM500RUBYZR-1;1590410348]
I know im trying to stir the pot a little. I am a diehard c4 fan. Hear me out below:
The heavy flywheels are an old school philosophy that all the power (in a drag race) comes at the launch.
The heavy flywheel idea made sense when a 5.0 tbi car had 190 hp.
Rev the motor to 2k, dump the clutch and that extra energy (from more weight of the reciprocating assembly) of inertia transfer to the tires with less chance of bogging. Dont want to stall out that 190 hp throttle body inj sputterput
Now fast forward to a world of turbos, nitrous, 7500 redlines And the heavy flywheel ideology doesnt make so much sense. And this includes the zr1s!!!!! Even in stock form...
I so wish i could quote this, but i read somewhere in a hot rod type magazine where they proved a lightweight flywheel car was faster even in a drag race situation vs a heavy flywheel car. What little it lost at the launch was more than made up for during the run running thru the gears. It was a net ET booster . Not by a lot, but it shows its not a et hurter like some beleve.
Now drivr skill and consistency i concede needs to be higher to drag race the lightweight flywheel car.
This is the post that is stating the dual mass on the zr1 has a 60 lb flywheel.
Later posts disputed that. I didnt notice the later posts which is why i assumed the zr1 had a heavy flywheel.
Again, i think heavy flywheels serve no purpose other than to make the car easier to drive (less chance of stall) for non racers or people learning to drive stickshift.
That may be what you think, but that does not mean it is correct
Now do you really think that is why they put the dual mass flywheel on their "king of the hill" halo, high hp supercar?
The simple answer is No, that is not why they used the heavier setup.
do some simple searching and reading and you may then understand.
.[/QUOTE]
Marty
Later posts disputed that. I didnt notice the later posts which is why i assumed the zr1 had a heavy flywheel.
Again, i think heavy flywheels serve no purpose other than to make the car easier to drive (less chance of stall) for non racers or people learning to drive stickshift.
That may be what you think, but that does not mean it is correct
Now do you really think that is why they put the dual mass flywheel on their "king of the hill" halo, high hp supercar?
The simple answer is No, that is not why they used the heavier setup.
do some simple searching and reading and you may then understand.
.[/QUOTE]
Marty
The heavy flywheels are an old school philosophy that all the power (in a drag race) comes at the launch.
The heavy flywheel idea made sense when a 5.0 tbi car had 190 hp.
Rev the motor to 2k, dump the clutch and that extra energy (from more weight of the reciprocating assembly) of inertia transfer to the tires with less chance of bogging. Dont want to stall out that 190 hp throttle body inj sputterput
Now fast forward to a world of turbos, nitrous, 7500 redlines And the heavy flywheel ideology doesnt make so much sense. And this includes the zr1s!!!!! Even in stock form...
I so wish i could quote this, but i read somewhere in a hot rod type magazine where they proved a lightweight flywheel car was faster even in a drag race situation vs a heavy flywheel car. What little it lost at the launch was more than made up for during the run running thru the gears. It was a net ET booster . Not by a lot, but it shows its not a et hurter like some beleve.
Now drivr skill and consistency i concede needs to be higher to drag race the lightweight flywheel car.
09-03-2015, 03:34 PM
#24
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Here is some flywheel information related to the LT5
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20W...eel-clutch.htm
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20W...eel-clutch.htm
09-03-2015, 04:18 PM
#25
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Dizwiz24 is right; a lighter flywheel will produce better performance -especially in the hands of a decent driver.
They put the ~37 lb, dual mass FW in the late C4 for one reason; to obtain the refinement they were looking for. As has been mentioned, a light/single mass FW results in trans gear rattle.
The choice in using a light FW in any later C4 boils down to your tolerance of more NVH vs. increased performance....and that is a personal, individual thing.
They put the ~37 lb, dual mass FW in the late C4 for one reason; to obtain the refinement they were looking for. As has been mentioned, a light/single mass FW results in trans gear rattle.
The choice in using a light FW in any later C4 boils down to your tolerance of more NVH vs. increased performance....and that is a personal, individual thing.
09-03-2015, 04:25 PM
#26
Race Director
Thread Starter
Dizwiz24 is right; a lighter flywheel will produce better performance -especially in the hands of a decent driver.
They put the ~37 lb, dual mass FW in the late C4 for one reason; to obtain the refinement they were looking for. As has been mentioned, a light/single mass FW results in trans gear rattle.
The choice in using a light FW in any later C4 boils down to your tolerance of more NVH vs. increased performance....and that is a personal, individual thing.
They put the ~37 lb, dual mass FW in the late C4 for one reason; to obtain the refinement they were looking for. As has been mentioned, a light/single mass FW results in trans gear rattle.
The choice in using a light FW in any later C4 boils down to your tolerance of more NVH vs. increased performance....and that is a personal, individual thing.
C6 z06 flywheel is 26 lbs.
Im sorry i took this post i created way off base.
The post About a 60lb flywheel is what set me off about heavy flywheels.
Ive gotten arrogant about flywheels because i figured out how to fix the trans noise problem by going to a thicker countershaft shim -at least on my remanufa tured blue tag.
There is very little noise anymore. I think its as quiet now as it was with the dual mass flywheel.
09-03-2015, 05:42 PM
#27
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
09-11-2015, 11:50 AM
#28
Safety Car
It seems gm has dropped the heavy flywheel philosophy.
C6 z06 flywheel is 26 lbs.
Im sorry i took this post i created way off base.
The post About a 60lb flywheel is what set me off about heavy flywheels.
Ive gotten arrogant about flywheels because i figured out how to fix the trans noise problem by going to a thicker countershaft shim -at least on my re-manufactured blue tag.
There is very little noise anymore. I think its as quiet now as it was with the dual mass flywheel.
C6 z06 flywheel is 26 lbs.
Im sorry i took this post i created way off base.
The post About a 60lb flywheel is what set me off about heavy flywheels.
Ive gotten arrogant about flywheels because i figured out how to fix the trans noise problem by going to a thicker countershaft shim -at least on my re-manufactured blue tag.
There is very little noise anymore. I think its as quiet now as it was with the dual mass flywheel.
Second, when GM orders parts...they do so in HUGE bulk to get a massive discount on the per unit cost and need to do so to satisfy the Federal mandate for spare parts available for X-years for vehicles sold. GM ALREADY had the dual-mass flywheel in stock...they aren't going to $hit-can them and start over. Bean counters won't EVER let that happen...
Third, GM learned through time that when they put the trans at the back, with a torque-tube and 4' driveshaft they didn't need the pulse dampening of a dual-mass flywheel. They've also made the gears a tighter mesh, with different profiles.
It's a LOT more to it than just GM "dropping the heavy flywheel philosophy".
Last edited by 1991Z07; 09-11-2015 at 11:54 AM.