need help with ca smog
04-14-2016, 11:53 PM
#41
Race Director
If it isn't an issue then I will be hunting down an address in a smog friendly county.
04-23-2016, 10:15 AM
#42
Instructor
So glad I came across this thread! I'm looking at lightly modded 90 and now am thinking I should just pass on it due to the smog risks. I need one as a daily driver and not sure that I want the hassle. I guess that pushes me to the later cars.
I'm in alameda county, which includes oakland. So I'm sure it is in the enhanced testing area.
I'm in alameda county, which includes oakland. So I'm sure it is in the enhanced testing area.
Last edited by Sphinx; 04-23-2016 at 10:17 AM.
04-23-2016, 10:52 AM
#43
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St. Jude Donor '05
Being as in Ca the sellers responsible for smog have him do a pretest look at the numbers go from there. Been looking at some here/there wont buy the "I got a smog dont worry".
Anyone can until it gets called into a STAR station then you have trouble if it isnt up to par.
Maybe that 90 is go give it a shot explain your concern, a confident and eager seller shouldnt have an issue even if you help out with $ a bit. Worth it either way.
pretty sure the smog renewal has to be done within 30 mi of your "address". Transfer of ownership not so sure
Maybe theres a AAA close to the seller that would be the ideal route
Anyone can until it gets called into a STAR station then you have trouble if it isnt up to par.
Maybe that 90 is go give it a shot explain your concern, a confident and eager seller shouldnt have an issue even if you help out with $ a bit. Worth it either way.
pretty sure the smog renewal has to be done within 30 mi of your "address". Transfer of ownership not so sure
Maybe theres a AAA close to the seller that would be the ideal route
Last edited by cv67; 04-23-2016 at 10:53 AM.
04-23-2016, 11:03 AM
#44
Instructor
Being as in Ca the sellers responsible for smog have him do a pretest look at the numbers go from there. Been looking at some here/there wont buy the "I got a smog dont worry".
Anyone can until it gets called into a STAR station then you have trouble if it isnt up to par.
Maybe that 90 is go give it a shot explain your concern, a confident and eager seller shouldnt have an issue even if you help out with $ a bit. Worth it either way.
pretty sure the smog renewal has to be done within 30 mi of your "address". Transfer of ownership not so sure
Maybe theres a AAA close to the seller that would be the ideal route
Anyone can until it gets called into a STAR station then you have trouble if it isnt up to par.
Maybe that 90 is go give it a shot explain your concern, a confident and eager seller shouldnt have an issue even if you help out with $ a bit. Worth it either way.
pretty sure the smog renewal has to be done within 30 mi of your "address". Transfer of ownership not so sure
Maybe theres a AAA close to the seller that would be the ideal route
One more thought, I don't think this had been tested, but for those with stock cars that have failed, that's a lawsuit in the making against CARB. This is arguably an unconstitutional "taking" that renders your car worthless in California. It would require someone to bring a class-action to test this theory. Those in the best position to bring the case would be those who had cars that were California missions certified to begin with. I imagine that LT5 are not the only problem. I imagine some older Porsches and Ferraris might have the same problem.
Has anyone actually tried to reach out to CARB get their thoughts on this?
Last edited by Sphinx; 04-23-2016 at 11:39 AM.
04-23-2016, 02:15 PM
#45
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
If what CARB is doing was grounds for a class-action, it would have been filed long ago. Either there are no grounds or the money it would cost to fund such as suit is not there.
CARB has been attempting to force older cars off the road by incrementally changing the pollutant limits for at least 15 years. I ran across the problem in 2003 and was told, when I discovered it, that it had been underway for a few years before that.
The car enthusiasts in California have no one to blame but themselves for this happening becuase they, along with other California voters, have been putting progressives in office for well over 50 years and those progressives have filled various regulatory agencies, such as CARB, with anti-car, environmental-activist, progressive-leaning, bureaucrats.
CARB is smart. They know that if they incrementally tighten the standards from time to time, that will force all the cars off the road which previosly passed but were close to the limit.
As long as those cars are either repaired/modified such that they pass, move off California highways or are scrapped, CARB's minnions achieve their goals. CARB cares little about the consequences of that for citizens...other than making certain exemptions available to very low income people.
If Gavin Newsom, who's running for Governor, gets elected, expect the stuation to get worse as Newsom, currently the State's Lt. Governor, is even more progressive than current Gov. Brown.
CARB has been attempting to force older cars off the road by incrementally changing the pollutant limits for at least 15 years. I ran across the problem in 2003 and was told, when I discovered it, that it had been underway for a few years before that.
The car enthusiasts in California have no one to blame but themselves for this happening becuase they, along with other California voters, have been putting progressives in office for well over 50 years and those progressives have filled various regulatory agencies, such as CARB, with anti-car, environmental-activist, progressive-leaning, bureaucrats.
CARB is smart. They know that if they incrementally tighten the standards from time to time, that will force all the cars off the road which previosly passed but were close to the limit.
As long as those cars are either repaired/modified such that they pass, move off California highways or are scrapped, CARB's minnions achieve their goals. CARB cares little about the consequences of that for citizens...other than making certain exemptions available to very low income people.
If Gavin Newsom, who's running for Governor, gets elected, expect the stuation to get worse as Newsom, currently the State's Lt. Governor, is even more progressive than current Gov. Brown.
04-23-2016, 02:28 PM
#46
Race Director
All that solves for me is, at best, the next two years. The owner has all the parts to return to 100% stock, but you guys are saying that even then, the cars will fail. Might as well be a junker or salvage car at that point. Unless I can find a "set it and forget it" solution, how does it make any financial sense if in two years I'll need to find an out of state buyer or cheat?
One more thought, I don't think this had been tested, but for those with stock cars that have failed, that's a lawsuit in the making against CARB. This is arguably an unconstitutional "taking" that renders your car worthless in California. It would require someone to bring a class-action to test this theory. Those in the best position to bring the case would be those who had cars that were California missions certified to begin with. I imagine that LT5 are not the only problem. I imagine some older Porsches and Ferraris might have the same problem.
Has anyone actually tried to reach out to CARB get their thoughts on this?
One more thought, I don't think this had been tested, but for those with stock cars that have failed, that's a lawsuit in the making against CARB. This is arguably an unconstitutional "taking" that renders your car worthless in California. It would require someone to bring a class-action to test this theory. Those in the best position to bring the case would be those who had cars that were California missions certified to begin with. I imagine that LT5 are not the only problem. I imagine some older Porsches and Ferraris might have the same problem.
Has anyone actually tried to reach out to CARB get their thoughts on this?
to obtain an end result. The "result" being that these cars are taken off the roads forever.
As far as a class action suit goes, it is probably cheaper to arrange a circumstance where the car is registered out of state. If you had "interest" in or owned an out of state corporation you might be able
to run a out of state plate and not have it be a problem. A little research and creativity might eliminate the issue with passing a smog test these cars were never designed to pass at the current standards.
04-23-2016, 03:13 PM
#47
Team Owner
For any of those who won't "cheat" a smog test to pass, why would you not as long as CARB is cheating the tests for our cars?
I'm not advocating an illegal test station, but I'm sure there are ways to get your car to pass a legal test under certain conditions. Do your research and think about how it can happen.
I'm not advocating an illegal test station, but I'm sure there are ways to get your car to pass a legal test under certain conditions. Do your research and think about how it can happen.
04-24-2016, 11:27 AM
#48
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Where is the op updates?
Hear all points
Problem is you get callled into a STAR station no getting around it. I know someone who owns one and even now he wont/cant do them anymore too regulated. Hear they use cameras connected to Sacramento timers on all checks
Having to non op an 02 Silverado Ive had since new as its had a code I cant get rid of for yrs. Overmaintained since the day I took it new off the lot. Not an old beater, an 02. Go figure. (and it runs great)
That will be the last new car I ever buy they are designed to be disposable
as it stands its max worth is 1500 for cash for clunkers.
Cant smog no tags, cant sell. Unreal
Hear all points
Problem is you get callled into a STAR station no getting around it. I know someone who owns one and even now he wont/cant do them anymore too regulated. Hear they use cameras connected to Sacramento timers on all checks
Having to non op an 02 Silverado Ive had since new as its had a code I cant get rid of for yrs. Overmaintained since the day I took it new off the lot. Not an old beater, an 02. Go figure. (and it runs great)
That will be the last new car I ever buy they are designed to be disposable
as it stands its max worth is 1500 for cash for clunkers.
Cant smog no tags, cant sell. Unreal
Last edited by cv67; 04-24-2016 at 11:31 AM.
04-24-2016, 02:19 PM
#49
Race Director
So glad I came across this thread! I'm looking at lightly modded 90 and now am thinking I should just pass on it due to the smog risks. I need one as a daily driver and not sure that I want the hassle. I guess that pushes me to the later cars.
I'm in alameda county, which includes oakland. So I'm sure it is in the enhanced testing area.
I'm in alameda county, which includes oakland. So I'm sure it is in the enhanced testing area.
04-24-2016, 05:38 PM
#50
Pro
If what CARB is doing was grounds for a class-action, it would have been filed long ago. Either there are no grounds or the money it would cost to fund such as suit is not there.
CARB has been attempting to force older cars off the road by incrementally changing the pollutant limits for at least 15 years. I ran across the problem in 2003 and was told, when I discovered it, that it had been underway for a few years before that.
The car enthusiasts in California have no one to blame but themselves for this happening becuase they, along with other California voters, have been putting progressives in office for well over 50 years and those progressives have filled various regulatory agencies, such as CARB, with anti-car, environmental-activist, progressive-leaning, bureaucrats.
CARB is smart. They know that if they incrementally tighten the standards from time to time, that will force all the cars off the road which previosly passed but were close to the limit.
As long as those cars are either repaired/modified such that they pass, move off California highways or are scrapped, CARB's minnions achieve their goals. CARB cares little about the consequences of that for citizens...other than making certain exemptions available to very low income people.
If Gavin Newsom, who's running for Governor, gets elected, expect the stuation to get worse as Newsom, currently the State's Lt. Governor, is even more progressive than current Gov. Brown.
CARB has been attempting to force older cars off the road by incrementally changing the pollutant limits for at least 15 years. I ran across the problem in 2003 and was told, when I discovered it, that it had been underway for a few years before that.
The car enthusiasts in California have no one to blame but themselves for this happening becuase they, along with other California voters, have been putting progressives in office for well over 50 years and those progressives have filled various regulatory agencies, such as CARB, with anti-car, environmental-activist, progressive-leaning, bureaucrats.
CARB is smart. They know that if they incrementally tighten the standards from time to time, that will force all the cars off the road which previosly passed but were close to the limit.
As long as those cars are either repaired/modified such that they pass, move off California highways or are scrapped, CARB's minnions achieve their goals. CARB cares little about the consequences of that for citizens...other than making certain exemptions available to very low income people.
If Gavin Newsom, who's running for Governor, gets elected, expect the stuation to get worse as Newsom, currently the State's Lt. Governor, is even more progressive than current Gov. Brown.
In NJ, we have plenty of progressives in office, and Gov. Christie is at an all time popularity low of about 30% approval.
However, I just bought my '91 ZR-1 in January of this year and was able to get antique plates (25 years old or older) that require no inspection at all. In addition, all older cars are tested using the regs in effect on their date of manufacture. Just recently, a law passed that exempts all '95 and older cars from emissions testing. Various pro-car entities were in the lawmakers' ears, and that has resulted in common-sense solutions. So, you can elect progressives who have a little common sense and still have reasonable regs..
04-25-2016, 03:48 PM
#51
Race Director
"Progressives" are not the ones at fault for your situation in California. Progressives who are idiots and know or care nothing about older cars, collector cars, etc. are at fault for your problem.
In NJ, we have plenty of progressives in office, and Gov. Christie is at an all time popularity low of about 30% approval.
However, I just bought my '91 ZR-1 in January of this year and was able to get antique plates (25 years old or older) that require no inspection at all. In addition, all older cars are tested using the regs in effect on their date of manufacture. Just recently, a law passed that exempts all '95 and older cars from emissions testing. Various pro-car entities were in the lawmakers' ears, and that has resulted in common-sense solutions. So, you can elect progressives who have a little common sense and still have reasonable regs..
In NJ, we have plenty of progressives in office, and Gov. Christie is at an all time popularity low of about 30% approval.
However, I just bought my '91 ZR-1 in January of this year and was able to get antique plates (25 years old or older) that require no inspection at all. In addition, all older cars are tested using the regs in effect on their date of manufacture. Just recently, a law passed that exempts all '95 and older cars from emissions testing. Various pro-car entities were in the lawmakers' ears, and that has resulted in common-sense solutions. So, you can elect progressives who have a little common sense and still have reasonable regs..
As car crazy as many car people are out here I doubtful we can have similar rules enacted for our beloved cars unless some powerful lobbying happens in Sacramento.
04-25-2016, 04:29 PM
#52
Instructor
Not to sure about how reaching out to CARB would change anything. The yearly reduction of NOX levels indicates to me a pre planned method of eliminating cars that are known to pollute was implemented
to obtain an end result. The "result" being that these cars are taken off the roads forever.
As far as a class action suit goes, it is probably cheaper to arrange a circumstance where the car is registered out of state. If you had "interest" in or owned an out of state corporation you might be able
to run a out of state plate and not have it be a problem. A little research and creativity might eliminate the issue with passing a smog test these cars were never designed to pass at the current standards.
to obtain an end result. The "result" being that these cars are taken off the roads forever.
As far as a class action suit goes, it is probably cheaper to arrange a circumstance where the car is registered out of state. If you had "interest" in or owned an out of state corporation you might be able
to run a out of state plate and not have it be a problem. A little research and creativity might eliminate the issue with passing a smog test these cars were never designed to pass at the current standards.
It isn't a C-O-N-Spiracy. The reality is that as these rules kick in now, cars are affected now, not previously. So, efforts to challenge CARB can happen now, not previously.
Sorry, but this is how it works. Owners who have 100% stock cars that fail emissions now have legal "standing" to sue CARB as aggrieved parties.
Eliminating old POS Chrysler K cars spewing black smoke is not a bad idea. However if that K Car is properly maintained and is only failing due to updated standards, that's a problem.
04-26-2016, 12:41 AM
#53
Race Director
[QUOTE=Sphinx;1592076404]Exactly right on the first part. Second part, not sure I agree unless that's after our "community" educates them on what we do.
It isn't a C-O-N-Spiracy. The reality is that as these rules kick in now, cars are affected now, not previously. So, efforts to challenge CARB can happen now, not previously.
Sorry, but this is how it works. Owners who have 100% stock cars that fail emissions now have legal "standing" to sue CARB as aggrieved parties.
Eliminating old POS Chrysler K cars spewing black smoke is not a bad idea. However if that K Car is properly maintained and is only failing due to updated standards, that's a problem.[/QUOT
The point is the emission levels were reduced incrementally over time which affected my cars ability to pass in 2011. I think its safe to say that the incrementalization
factor was intentionally created by 2 or more people. If you are curious look up the word "conspiracy" and see what the word actually means.
Btw, my car isn't completely stock. However, it does have the factory emission parts intact and in working order. It does have cats though they are not
CARB numbered and approved for compliance with this state's level of draconian conformity. I did purchase quality cats for the purpose of making it possible for the car to pass.
We are not talking about econo bucket K cars here. Our ZR-1s ran efficiently enough to not be penalized with a "Gas Guzzler" tax of a $1000 when sold as brand new.
I believe the LT5 engine performs at a higher level of efficiency as compared to many others, including the engines in Chrysler K cars.
It isn't a C-O-N-Spiracy. The reality is that as these rules kick in now, cars are affected now, not previously. So, efforts to challenge CARB can happen now, not previously.
Sorry, but this is how it works. Owners who have 100% stock cars that fail emissions now have legal "standing" to sue CARB as aggrieved parties.
Eliminating old POS Chrysler K cars spewing black smoke is not a bad idea. However if that K Car is properly maintained and is only failing due to updated standards, that's a problem.[/QUOT
The point is the emission levels were reduced incrementally over time which affected my cars ability to pass in 2011. I think its safe to say that the incrementalization
factor was intentionally created by 2 or more people. If you are curious look up the word "conspiracy" and see what the word actually means.
Btw, my car isn't completely stock. However, it does have the factory emission parts intact and in working order. It does have cats though they are not
CARB numbered and approved for compliance with this state's level of draconian conformity. I did purchase quality cats for the purpose of making it possible for the car to pass.
We are not talking about econo bucket K cars here. Our ZR-1s ran efficiently enough to not be penalized with a "Gas Guzzler" tax of a $1000 when sold as brand new.
I believe the LT5 engine performs at a higher level of efficiency as compared to many others, including the engines in Chrysler K cars.
Last edited by Zrxmax; 04-26-2016 at 12:42 AM.
04-26-2016, 10:30 AM
#54
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Anyone can until it gets called into a STAR station then you have trouble if it isnt up to par.
Time to non op, will never pass. nothing wrong with it mechanically just a ghost code that wont go away.
Car is now worth tops 1500 cash for clunkers
04-26-2016, 12:30 PM
#55
Instructor
What do you have?
04-26-2016, 12:33 PM
#56
Instructor
If that's true, then now that the standards have crept into stock ZR1 territory, it makes sense to challenge CARB. I'm not saying that a legal challenge is easy - but until one of you guys (I don't own a ZR1 yet) consults a lawyer about it, you have no clue whether there's a chance of success.
04-26-2016, 01:14 PM
#57
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St. Jude Donor '05
p0430
Dealer wants to throw more parts at it til its solved so does everyone else for 100/hr I would too LOL
Runs great
Last edited by cv67; 04-26-2016 at 01:15 PM.
04-27-2016, 03:29 PM
#58
Safety Car
The limits in CA haven't been lowered since 2011. My last smog was 18 months ago on my '91 so I haven't seen what the limits are lately. I wouldn't be surprised if the creeping incrementalism kicks in another notch though.
To answer Brad's original question- it has gotten to the point to where it is easier to comply by changing it back to almost stock than it is to find a 'guy' like we used to do.
To answer Brad's original question- it has gotten to the point to where it is easier to comply by changing it back to almost stock than it is to find a 'guy' like we used to do.
04-27-2016, 09:50 PM
#59
Instructor
The limits in CA haven't been lowered since 2011. My last smog was 18 months ago on my '91 so I haven't seen what the limits are lately. I wouldn't be surprised if the creeping incrementalism kicks in another notch though.
To answer Brad's original question- it has gotten to the point to where it is easier to comply by changing it back to almost stock than it is to find a 'guy' like we used to do.
To answer Brad's original question- it has gotten to the point to where it is easier to comply by changing it back to almost stock than it is to find a 'guy' like we used to do.
04-28-2016, 10:54 PM
#60
Safety Car
Forgive the California newbie question, but what's a car referee and did it work?
Based on this thread, a 90-93 in stock condition will fail even if stock. So, not sure how that solves. Can you clarify? I hope it does, b/c I've found a couple of early cars I really like but I need to make sure I have a path forward on emissions.
Based on this thread, a 90-93 in stock condition will fail even if stock. So, not sure how that solves. Can you clarify? I hope it does, b/c I've found a couple of early cars I really like but I need to make sure I have a path forward on emissions.