RICHARD TILL

Test drive a ZR-1 and feel it`s power and how hard it will pull thru 2 and 3rd gear. There lies ur answer. 1990 ZR-1 red/red #2161.

AnthonyGS

I find this interesting. If your ZR isn't leaving harder than an l98 or LT1, then it's broken or being babied. Ask the 93 40th ruby red that wanted to see ZR power last week. I can't keep 315mm wide 140 treadwear rubber stuck to the road easily. Drive it hard and she will reward your efforts.

1993C4LT1

I'm pretty sure if I rode in a ZR-1, I'd be hooked. Shoot I'm already hooked just by looking at the car in the back.

Tom400CFI

60' tells the whole story folks...and stock ZR-1's "leave" about the same as any other C4.

Photoguy000

I do have a small secondary vacuum leak that I need to address. I've decided that this is why my car at he bottom doesn't throw me into the seat the way I always look for, but I have heard other forum members make similar comments about how the LT5 does not pull the same as a LT1/4 at the bottom and I totally agree. Totally different animal. That said when you're at 20mph and you hit it, it throws much harder. Just not from Zero. (Granted I could spin my ZR wheels all the way through first and probably second if I really wanted to...)

ghlkal

I had an '85 and an '87 before my '90 ZR-1.

This was my reason also. It was the ZR-1 that saved the Corvette line, and the LT5 pushed Chevy to create the LT1 and put muscle into the "base" Corvette. Many folks I speak with at car shows understand the unique contribution of the ZR-1 and LT5. I love the historical aspect of this car. It didn't hurt that I could actually afford a C4 ZR-1

TOM65 L76 96 LT1

I've been thinking about doing the same thing, I have been looking at various websites all winter and have found about 10 ZR1's that I really like, my only problem at the present is both of my C4's are in winter storage and are not coming out until April 21st, I would sell my 93 Ruby Red roadster, 6sp with 14600 for miles and 96 Polo Green roadster with 42000 miles, just a thought but I can't get it out of my mind.

Z51JEFF

Aprils right around the corner. Interest in ZR-1 seem to be picking up,get an ice one when the chance comes along.

bb62

1. 60' tells what "whole" story?
2. Where do you have published data on 60' comparisons?
3. The few microseconds that an L98 is "leaving" at the same rate as a ZR1 is irrelevant to real performance capability (or feel). By the time the L98 will need to shift into second, the ZR1 will be gone.
4. For similar cars with similar engines (and assuming the same tire grip), I can agree with the 60' assertion, but the L98 engine and the LT5 are entirely different animals so an initial launch feel is meaningless to performance feel.

cv67

Take bill up on his offer spend some time in it with both you guys driving;nice of him to offer youll find lots of that in the community ( I received lots of help from guys here I didnt know from Adam.) Big plus

Then take a week and really be honest with yourself meaning once the novelty wears off are you still happy with it.

Cost of parts/repairs, mods etc the LTx is the winner

If you want one to have around they are priced pretty darn good right now.

Had lotsa fun in the one i had but hands down $ wise the 89 was easier to own all the way around . Just slower lol.

To its credit that engine, to this day I have not come across anything more durable is not myth talk. Bought mine with 140ish mi, prior owner a member who did his share of well, testing. . Did some top end runs, lots of canyon play 1/4 mi etc never gave an issue;sold it with 160ish?! mi to a friend it was his one and only car. Drove it in for months in summer with a bad stat overheated constantly. Fixed it put a DeWitts sytem in and kept on going. never puked a gasket....smogged it and the #s werent much differnet than new couldnt believe it.
eventually developed some C4 electrical stuff and got sold off for peanuts to someone here.
Car overall was getting tired but the motor still tight. ZF Doc opened up the trans said it still looked like new. Good stuff.

Initial impression (stock, catback tune/4.10) is that thats how a stock vette should have run. Not fast (ran 13s) but had some poop to it for stock. Hope this helps.

Goldcylon

Yes my first Corvette was a 90 C4 L-98 DRM torque monster. Go for it.

AnthonyGS

60' is about tires and driver skill...... not that I have any experience drag racing.


Back to the ZR-1 vs. L98/LT-1. Honestly, most of my expenses with my ZR have been due to typical C4 issues. I keep a spreadsheet if anyone is really interested in details.


1) LCD speedo display, 2) Bose.... blows, 3) FX3 ride control solenoid, 4) rear emblem busted, 5) door panels busted and droopy, and 6) tach reading low.


Other things to address still: power antenna just broke recently, installing short shifter, getting custom wheels (this is a bit of a ZR-1 bummer due to different offsets), A/C works intermittently (electrical for sure), need to redo PCV system and gaskets under plenum (definitely an LT5 thing, but not expensive).


Honestly I don't see where owning a ZR-1 is much different than any C4 so far.

Tom400CFI

Say.....WHAT!?

1. Are you saying that even though the two cars 60's about the same...they'll feel substantially different "leave" (which I'm taking to mean "off the line")...?
But yeah...the 60' is about the best way to objectively measure how a car "leaves".

2. I have no published data on 60' times, but I have spent enough time at drag tracks and seen enough L98's and LT5's to know that the both 60' in the 2.0x range on street tires when decently driven.

3. Micro seconds? They should be about equal for at least ~2 seconds; the aforementioned 60' duration, and/or up to about 4000 RPM in 1st gear.

4. back to my question in number 1. Which is really meaningless anyway. Anyone can argue anything w/regard to "feel"...so we use measurements to find facts and clarity. And both cars 60' about the same...which you agreed with. So the both "leave" about the same...which I said in post #24.


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bb62

Tom,

First, this is not an easy topic to address. The OEM vehicle planning departments have been wrestling with this question for decades. Of course what is the definition of "leaving". To most performance enthusiasts, it would include the period of time well past 2.0s where the car is going somewhere between 20 and 30 mph. If we are specifically talking about performance feel, then consider some facts (some of the knowledge I acquired at Ford when I was a Powertrain Planning Manager):

- Our engineers could NOT come up with a speciic objective measure for performance feel no matter how much we pushed.
- The closest measure to a high customer satisfaction rating in performance feel was surprisingly driven by the ratio of angle of the accelerator pressed divided by the percentage of the throttle opening. Go figure.
- Actual speed made very little difference. We tested big blocks next to small blocks and found that to the vast majority of customers, the big blocks had a lower performance feel than the small blocks EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE FASTER AT ALL SPEED RANGES. This was driven by the lack of change in torque for the big blocks versus the more peaky torque delivered by the small blocks (for the engines tested) even though the torque for the big blocks at ANY RPM was higher than the small blocks. For our Chevrolet brethren, they had the same issues comparing the new Corvettes with the competing Porsches. There were Porsches that were faster that just felt slower.
- 60 foot times therefore mean very little in terms of performance feel - at least from the perspective of how the OP seemingly meant it. And I can guarantee that the performance feel of a ZR-1 as it reaches for 7000 rpm while the L98 has long since shifted down to 2nd gear, the driver will have long since forgotten the first 2 seconds of the run.

Tom400CFI

Copy all that...but Photoguy000 started this sidebar with this:
"If you love the Torque at the bottom between stop lights the L98 and LT1/4 are always the way to go and you'll risk being a little disappointed with a Stock LT5. (yea I said it; I felt it too at first). My 92 will beat my 90 Z off the line every day of the week."

To which AnthonyGS replied by saying:
" If your ZR isn't leaving harder than an l98 or LT1, then it's broken or being babied"Then I replied with an objective reference point that seemed pretty relevant (to me) to "torque at the bottom", "Between stop lights" and "off the line". That is all 60' stuff, essentially, in any stock C4.


Feel is subjective and not even worth debating -it's like debating "good sound" or something like that. I of all people "get it" that a car can BE faster...and FEEL slower (my C6 vs. my '92 LT1). But if you want to talk "feel"...I've driven LT5's, L98's, L83's and LT1's...they all feel about the same to me...for the first 60'. And, against the timer, they all 60' about the same too.

"As it reaches for 7000 RPM" is way outside my definition of "leaving". You watch a car launch at the drag track (the engine rev, clutch drop, tire hook and engine recovery); that is "leaving", IMO...that is the 60'. But you're right; the term could mean something different to others. Maybe the Photoguy000 or AnthonyGS could clarify. Or...probably it doesn't really matter.

AnthonyGS

I did clarify. I said 60 ft is all about tires and driver skill. I also bet with sufficiently sticky tires an LT5 will cut a much better 60 than an L98, and probably the LT1 too. With a really sticky tire you could leave in the LT5 sweet spot.

The only reason someone could perceive an l98 will leave like an LT5 is poor tires.

Tom400CFI

Yeah? You think? I don't, but who here has launched a stock or stockish ZR-1 on sticky tires. Someone has, I bet. What did you 60? Of course, if you put sticky tires on an L98 or an LT1 they will 60' better, too.

Not that it matters b/c the discussion was about street cars (which would have street tires).

Look, the ZR-1 does make more low RPM tq than an L98 or and LT1. It also makes more peak tq (and tq through the entire RPM range). With similar gearing (which most manuals C4's have) that feature alone would give the ZR-1 a slight, but meaningful advantage.

However, the ZR-1 also weighs significantly more than an L98, and somewhat more than an LT1. Also, that weight is in the "wrong" place, for "leaving", so those factors offset the tq advantage some. How much? The 60 tells the story.

AnthonyGS

Okay hotshoe, let's see all the timeslips. And it's pretty crazy you are worried solely about 60 ft when any sanctioned drag race is 660 ft at least. Even with the weight difference you can't give up 130 hp and hope to make it up.

Oh and published torque numbers for the LT5 is 30 ft-lb higher than the L98, but I'm sure GMs engineers were sandbagging the L98 right? So, no it doesn't make more peak torque. And I'm almost certain it doesn't make more torque throughout the rpm range, because we are comparing a 5,000 rpm engine to a 7,000 rpm engine. And the 7,000 rpm engine makes more peak torque. Granted we could look up the factory torque curves and chart the area under each one, but it'd be a waste of time at this point.


Let's put this into perspective. My ZR-1 gives up about 130 hp to the 6th gen 505 hp Z06. Do you think the ZR-1 leaves as hard as a C6 Z06? If you do, you need to recalibrate your senses.


I like how you chose to make your limitation crappy tires for the comparison too. I already accounted for tires and driver ability several posts ago. I'm no slouch of a driver, but I'm no Evan Smith either. The times that guy gets out of factory stock cars are insane.

Tom400CFI

This is dumb. Don't be so defensive about the ZR-1. In real life, of course I care way more about the 1/4 mile. However, this conversation (that you played a part in starting) about "leaving" is all about the 60'. So that is what I'm talking about...here. In a different conversation, of course I'd readily agree that a ZR-1 will beat any other C4 in a full, 1/4 mile.



Go back. Re-read what I ACTUALLY wrote. Lets have a look...shall we?

Where did I say anything about the L98 making more tq, "sandbagging" or any other bullsh!t? I didn't.


I guess we'd have to define "leave"...for me, that is the 60'. And no, I don't think a ZR-1 "leaves" as hard as a C6 Z06; the Z06 has similar gearing, more low RPM tq AND...it weighs substantially less.



The original conversation was about Photoguy000's car "leaving" compared to his LT1. I'm GUESSING that both his cars are "leaving" on street tires. I could be wrong though.


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phrogs

Yep and Id never go back. Only C4 corvette Ill ever own again.