lghtngyello03

Alright guys, wanted to give all of you a heads up on this car so nobody gets screwed.

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/4857522782.html

Talked with the seller for a couple of days and he sent lots of pictures. Assured me it was a 2 owner car from Alabama, with him being the 3rd owner, original low miles of 35k miles, also a clean title/carfax.

He already had been talking with my credit union. Everything was setup for me to go by after work and pick up my stuff.

Normally, I run a carfax, but since the credit union was going to do it, I waited to see it from them.

Get to the credit union and check out the car fax....Strike 1...not a 2 owner from AL, it was a 6 owner car.....Strike 2....originally from Wisconsin ( not wanting a northern car) and here is Strike 3...started looking through the transfered owner mileage and there is a mileage inconsistency, marked 91k mi, which wasn't changed for an entire year until the next owner purchased the car, then the miles were reported to 9100mi at this time.

I've had the hwy dept screw up before, and it's changed right away and shows on carfax as well. Why would that go an entire year before this was addressed? If you had a 9100 mi car and received the title back with 91k mi, wouldn't you have this addressed as soon as possible?

Stepped out and called the seller, told him of the issues, asked if he possibly had all maintenance records in the owners manual, as this should show the mileage with the dates if serviced as he stated.

He said he had no clue of this, and said he never pulled a carfax, that the previous owner just assured him it was clean and clear. I told him the only way I'm still interested was if he could provide the maintenance records to prove that it indeed was a dmv screw up.

He stated he would contact me shortly with the maintenance records. Never heard back from him.

So I go back home and spend about an hr on Google with the two title numbers listed on the carfax and VIN, and came to the Alabama Dept of Revenue website. $12 and two title number searches later, I came up with the truth.

Report showed 91k was ACTUAL mileage. Then the next report showed the car was exempt of mileage....this is where the carfax reported 9100 miles.

So, anyone looking at this car needs to know it probably now has an actual mileage of 120k-130k, and that it's a odometer fraud.

Attached are the reports that I was able to get from the Alabama Dept of Revenue.

Hope to keep someone from getting screwed.

Vetteman Jack

Thanks for all the research. That info could save someone a real headache.

lghtngyello03

No problem, wanted to give everyone on here a headsup, as I was almost royally screwed.

We had agreed on a price of 22.5k ....knew it was too good to be true.

Fastcar

This should be a sticky!!! Mods??????

superramvette2

I live in Chattanooga if anyone needs assistance with this matter. I do not know the seller but I seem to have seen a car that fits this description at a local dodge dealer the other day ( not for sell but was in a customer spot, I was having my jeep serviced). If it is the same car it looked clean but I honestly didn't pay a ton of attention to it.

lghtngyello03

Car was definitely clean from pics. Either he knew and didn't want to tell me after I asked for proof of service records, or was also scammed himself and too embarrassed to call back.

oldschoolvette

That's a lot of homework. That is a good job, my guess is the seller may not be as ignorant as he claims

DetroitPlac

Counter-point:

Carfax rarely gets the number of owners right. Every time there's a change in title, it registers a new owner. Carfax said my car had 8 previous owners, when it only had 3. Here's how it broke down:

Owner 1: Original owner leases car
Owner 2: Original owner buys car off lease, lease co transfers title
Owner 3: Original owner takes loan to buy leased car, loan company transfers title
Owner 4: Original owner pays off loan, gets title in his name.
Owner 5: Original owner sells car to second owner, title transferred
Owner 6: 2nd owner takes out loan for car, new title with loan info
Owner 7: 2nd owner pays off loan, gets title in his name
Owner 8: 2nd owner sells car to 3rd owner

It was only 3 owners, but the carfax said otherwise. The guy I bought the car from had the registrations from past owners to verify that it was only 3. Don't trust carfax for owner history, just use it for title status and/or accident history, and even then it's not whole.

As far as the mileage goes, you can tell a 120k mile car. There's going to be wear and tear on it that a 35k mile car just doesn't have. If it's clean enough to pass as a 35k car, it probably is. Also, I have no clue how you'd trick the odometer to read something else since it's electronic. I don't believe mileage is stored in the cluster, so you'd be replacing computers, etc which is probably more hassle than it's worth to a seller. Mileage mistakes happen ALL THE TIME on registrations. I've seen many cars with these issues. Use your best judgement to tell if it's an error or not. Car's clean, owner's honest? It's probably a mistake.

The Wisconsin thing? It's entirely possible that the original owner lived in Wisconsin and had a place in Alabama. He may have bought the car in Wisconsin and when he moved, transferred the car down there (which Carfax would report as a 2nd owner, BTW). OR, since it's an 02 and IIRC, 02's were in high demand, he may have bought the car in Wisconsin when living in Alabama. Carfax would show that as the car originating in Wisconsin, and also registered a 2nd owner.

Nothing in your flags are worth walking away from the car. They can all be explained logically and with very common reason. These information sources are all impossible to verify, so it's where you're best judgement is required. I've rarely seen a car without some screw up in the history/paperwork. It's all too common these days.

lghtngyello03

Pretty easy to change the miles....if you own a dealership ( makes sense, seller said 2 owners before him owned a dealership, in AL, which is where the car came from) you have all the access to the GM tech tools. So it's only a mater of plugging in and putting what you want in it.

Or, you could have a buddy that works at a dealer, or smaller private dealer with a tech tool. Better yet just hop online or go to a junkyard and buy another one and replace the whole cluster.

Mileage is stored in the cluster. Hop on ebay and look at some...see how many miles are stated to be on them. How do you think mileage gets changed if your cluster craps out and then you have to buy a new one? Dealership can put that in in no time.

Owner one was Wisconsin, owner 2 was in Arizona for over 3 years where then the carfax says vehicle offered for sale....so, pretty hard to argue with that. Every time an ownership changed its listed as vehicle offered for sale and vehicle purchase reported as well.

I have a 1989 Mirage Turbo with 189k on it, car could pass for a 50k-80k mile car all day long...and people have had disbelief when I tell them how many miles are on it due to condition.

The Alabama Dept of Revenue report is enough red flag for me, showing that 91k IS ACTUAL MILEAGE, then the next report showing exempt mileage. Here in SC the title would be branded as Mileage Discrepancy.

DetroitPlac

Does Alabama actually inspect the vehicle or is that owner reported? In Michigan "Actual mileage" is owner-reported, so it could be anything. If it's owner reported, a clerical mistake is possible. Though, I didn't realize that with the GM tools, you can change the odometer at will. That's pretty concerning.

And you're right on the owners. If each owner ends with "vehicle listed for sale" and the next begins with "vehicle sold", it's likely that the owner records are correct. None of the 8 owners on my car had that, it just said "title issued" and the registration city stayed the same.

I still think you'd be able to tell a 120k mile C5. You'd naturally have to drive it first, but 120k miles takes its toll on these cars, especially the interior. My 50k car feels much more solid than the 100k mile car I test drove. The 100k car also had a lot more wear and tear when you looked underneath it, examined the suspension, engine compartment, etc. It may look fine on the outside, but it doesn't take a lot of looking to show its age.

Anyway, good detective work. Sounds like it's probably wise to keep looking from this one. too much uncertainty in the back story.

Lloyd Smale

if its anything like my Silverado the milage is not stored in the computer. If you swap instrument clusters the milage can be zeroed out again. I bought a white faced guage cluster on ebay and it took all of ten minutes to install it and a dishonest man could swap them back and forth and sell the vehicle with the cluster with the lowest milage. The only record chev can access conserning milage is if you bring it in for work under warrantee or service work later they log the milage. the mechanics at the local chev dealership told me thered be no way to tell as long as I put the old black faced guage panel back in. I would guess that that's what this owner did and id bet that it happens more then you think. I wouldn't buy a used car without a good service record that was kept track of by a dealership.

lghtngyello03

This is the same thing I explained to the seller, credit union, and my insurance company.

I told him if it was serviced by the dealer thend they should have all mileage records when it came in for service.

vetrnz06

years ago on a CBS 60 minutes segment there was a story on some folks/ car sales ring that were turning back odometers on cars before reselling them.the FEDS got 'em. next of kin maybe? they were in cleveland ,TN

lghtngyello03

^Lol maybe? But I doubt it...Car was turned back to 9100 miles, so says the carfax, in Alabama 2 owners before this guy.

cor28vettes

The VIS report is usually free at Chev dealer service dept and it will indicate all service history by VIN done at any GM dealership.

One of the advantageous when buying from the orig owner is being able to question the complete history. You cannot do so when buying used from a dealer. There you can only rely on their sales pitch, a VIS (Chev dealer service history by VIN), Carfax and/or autocheck. But don't put blind faith in a Carfax/Autocheck, good or bad.

lghtngyello03

Bumping this back up.....this dead beat is back on CL again. Please see and read original post......I'd hate for someone to get screwed and buy something that isn't what is said to be.


http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/4857522782.html

1FUNC5

How long Is the car registered in Wi? There is a law up there that any car bought in that state even if going out of state will be titled in WI and transfered to outgoing state. I have bought a couple of cars up there from Rick Conti is how I know.

Primaris

FYI: any car in AL that is 10 years old no longer has the mileage checked/tracked.

lghtngyello03

Bought new in WI there for a couple of months in the winter according to carfax.

lghtngyello03

Ok? AL State Revenue Showed the mileage on the title lookup when it was brought to AL in 07....so from 02 (year model of car) to 07 (year car was brought to AL) isn't 10 years. Then in 08 it says mileage exempt....here in SC you can file for mileage exempt when the car is considered as high mileage, and your title says "EXEMPT"

I'm assuming that is what was done on this car. Then whoever bought it in 08 changed the cluster out, or had a buddy with a Tech 2 change the mileage on the car, and instantly added 7-10k onto the sales price.