EdwardETraylorIII

Hello,

I had originally posted this over in the C5 Tech section but due to lack of response as well as the lively nature of the turbo/N20 area of CF I thought I'd repost it here as it certainly fits into the genre of this area of the forum.

I've combined my opening message and my response to several people inquiries into one post so I'm sorry if this seems really long, but it may address some questions you may that I initially forgot to include in my original post.

I'm building a 2,000 + HP C5 and am trying to figure out which transmission to install and how it will fit.

1. What are the issues, as far as fitment, when installing a 4L80E?

2. Can a built 6L80E handle obscene power like a built 4L80E can?

3. are the outer dimensions of the 6L80E going to be similar to a 4L80E or is it going to be even more of a PITA to make the 6L80 fit?

I already have a PCM (Big Stuff 3) that will control the transmission, so that isn't an issue.

4. Can you think of any other gotchas I'll encounter while trying to install one of these transmissions into a C5 that started at as a manual?

Furthermore, if you have any experience with rear-ends (think: cars, guys!!!) then please let me know what you think about a 12 bolt?
Can I keep the stock rear end and expect any type of life if I turn the boost down and am only making around 1,200-1,300 HP? Is a 12 bolt a must? I surely do hate to fork up the handling on this thing with a 12 bolt. I want it to be a daily driver as well as a weekend warrior.

Thanks in advnace for your input!

(Below is the response post to a few questions..)
Thanks for so much interest in my project.

The car is going to be a streetable 2,000 HP C5. I'm going with a hydraulic roller for streetability. 160# Injectors controlled by a Big Stuff 3 Fuel Management system. It's a World Castings "Warhawk" block - for those unfamiliar, that is a (4.25 bore X 4.25 stroke) 454 aluminum block built to handle serious power. Needless to say, all forged internals going in. I have two 76mm turbo's that I'm fabbing up on the car.

The rear-end is either a 12-bolt or possibly a 9". I haven't yet made that determination. Either of those should hold the level of power I'm building.

So, from the few responses I've gotten, the 4L80E is a real PITA to install in one of our cars. Has anyone here tried this and made the necessary modifications? Did it seriously weaken the structural rigidity/frame by removing material from the torque tube tunnel area? How much material was removed? Any tips?

Someone inquired about my ET goals - I see no reason this car shouldn't run in the 8's on pump gas once it's tuned properly and the suspension is set up properly for the track and hopefully hit some 7's on good gas.

I base those numbers on weight, proper gearing, good traction, and 1,100-1,200 RWHP on pump gas and around 1,500-1,600 on race gas. Anyone have any better insight on my projections? Sound reasonable to you?

Back to the tranny woes... One person mentioned that a 4L80E wouldn't hold the type of power I'm trying to achieve. I beg to differ. a 4L80E is basically the same transmission as a TH400 but with overdrive.

Now, a 4L60E I would agree - after 800-900 RWHP... Things break. Not strong enough for this level. 4L80E? I think it has plenty of potential to handle this level of power. Please educate me if I'm wrong. I'm ALL ears!

Ferretts

Phil97SVT

If your going to make a 2000hp car you better look else where for a tranny.
Phil

0Jeff @ TPE

1) Good luck on getting 2K out of an LSX based block

2) You will Have to go with a TH400 Tranny (Minimum) A 4L80E wont cut it. Most likely it will have to be a fully blown race tranny.

3) You dont have a chance in he!! to get the stock rear end to stay together. You were kidding right? If you have intentions to build something like this, you should know that by now.

4) You will have to go with a solid axle.

5) You will basically have to re-engineer the entire car to withstand that kind of power.

I would talk to ECS, or Neverlift for this type of transformation. Be prepared to spend WELLLLL into the 6 figures to get to your goals.

Ferretts

As long as he doesn't get traction he should be ok, no?

bernrex

Rodney @ RodneyTransmissions ( Indiana ) would be an obvious expert to talk to. But, you knew this.

Some say the guys in Ohio run the biggest and baddest vettes on the planet. Check with them.

EdwardETraylorIII

American_HP,

Did you even bother to read my entire post?

1. They claim it is good to around 2,500 HP.

2. A 4L80E is essentially a TH400. Obviously I will need strengthened planetaries...

3 and 4:
5. Uhh, yes. Got that. Re-engineer whole car. I figured that out when I dropped $6 large on a bare black and bare heads for the black and started pondering which tranny and rear-end combo to go with.

#001 2001 Z06

""

Reply's above. I concur with Jeff.

Yep. $200-250k based on some others that are being done. This is a long term one year full shop project just to finish and not get it sorted out. Granatelli is building such a car now, over 250k at their cost. This is a very major undertaking.

mdhmi

You're definitely going to want a solid axle. The IRS is going to puke long before you hit 2,000 HP.

Either a built T400 or Power Glide should work fine for your hp goals.

A TT 454 would be ****. Good luck on the buildup.

Mark

0Jeff @ TPE

Yes I did, but you kept bouncing around like you have no clue which way you are going..

Example:


I guess you could try and go with a 4L80 or 6L80 (Even though the 6L80 has never been done) But you have to remember, you are attempting to build a 2000hp Corvette. There will be NOTHING streetable about it.

To ansewr this question, I said HE!! NO it wont work.

The lower part of you thread was started by saying they were "Responses' I wasnt sure what you were getting at cause you are contradicting yourself.


Look... You are approaching this project all wrong. You are making it look like you are gonna buy a few parts slap them in and have one of the highest (If not the highest) HP C5's in the world. Trust me my friend, thats NOT gonna happen. You shouldnt concern your self with wether or not you will have to "Trim" parts of the car. This car will have to be taken to a professional race shop that specializes in full blown race applications.
They will basically have to disassemble the entire car, and re-engineer/strengthen the entire chassis.

Your basing you build off of a block that hasnt even been released yet. Not that thats a bad thing.. But it just seems to me like you think this will be an a moderately difficult task. You also think that a car with 6 times the power of a stock C5 with a built race transmission, 12 bolt 5 link rear end that will most definately be tubbed is going to be a daily driver/ weekend warrior.. You really need to weigh you priorities.
I'm not saying it cant be done. What I am saying is that this car will be a dedicated race car. NOTHING MORE.

StreetRacingGuy

A TH210 (TH400 from Rossler) is what most race car guys run that run 6's, 7's, 8's, etc. I would personally talk to Rodney at RPM and see what he feels is best for what your doing, either a TH400, power glide or POSSIBLY a 4L80E, but I don't know of ANYONE that has got a 4L80E to fit in a C5...

The warhawk block is nice, but why such a big crank? With boost, you don't need a 4.25"+ arm to swing around! Who is the engine builder on this project??? The absilute best thing to do with this kind of project is to go to somewhere like Wheel-2-wheel powertrain and have them handle the ENTIRE project. You will spend more than $200,000 on the project, minus the cost of the car.

do do the 2000 hp thing, I don't know if the twin's your using will do it...the best one will be to do a big single (101+mm Turbo), sheet aluminum intake, etc. Hell, the radiator and intercooler with the necessary fabrication will probablr run $15,000 or so...

good luck

EdwardETraylorIII

American HP,

I beg to differ - I believe it will be a perfectly streetable car if I can work out my last few issues that I haven't yet bought parts for and figured out.

I am fully aware of the cost as I've already bought a great deal of the parts needed.

The Warhawk blocks are shipping as of this week (mine happens to be one of them...)

The car is at a full out race shop (HinsonSuperCars). I am fully aware of the magnitude of this project. In retrospect I do see where one could interpret what I said as a lay-question or series of lay-questions.

I believe my best bet here is going to be either not put race gas in the car (but that's no fun!) and be content with roughly 1,100 RWHP, purchase Mike @ Yank's 4L80-e conversion kit (replaces everything from the torque tube to the stock rear-end internals) and race it at that... Or follow-through, back-half the car, coilovers, and a dana rear-end being fed by a TH400... Argh...

My main conflict here is that I want the ability to be able to drive this car 2-3 days a week and it be somewhat enjoyable. I really don't think that is a possibility with a back-halfed car with a cage. Arghhh

American HP, thanks for taking the time to explain yourself. I thought you were simply slamming me for the joy of slamming me. Now I know differently.

EdwardETraylorIII

Street Racing Guy,

Thanks for the insight and the tips. I'm (under the Auspices of HSC - HinsonSuperCars) handling the entire project. I'm not paying a Company to do the entire thing for me.

I'm thinking the twin 76's with a 150-200 shot will get me right @ 2,000 at the crank. - 1,600-1,700 @ the wheels on good gas. I could be way off, but my math seems to work out right.

The reason for a 454 is because I want 1,100 ish Horsepower on PUMP gas.

mdhmi

A cage is going to be mandatory equipment long before you hit 8's.

You might want to send a PM to "Paul_Z06" and perhaps a few others that have gone before you. Paul has a mid 8 TT car. I'm sure he can answer a lot of your driveline related questions.

Good luck on the project.

Mark

EdwardETraylorIII

mdhmi,

Thanks, I've just messaged him as well as a few others I know of.

I realize that a cage is necessary but I'm not sure that I'll be adding one. until I get into the lowwwwwww 8's. I realize that I'll only be able to make one run per drag strip unless I build one! LOL

#001 2001 Z06

Ed,
Good luck with your project.
I made tons and tons of repeative lab notes with mine.
A lot guys have done some good real world testing.
Take advantage of it.

"My main conflict here is that I want the ability to be able to drive this car 2-3 days a week and it be somewhat enjoyable. I really don't think that is a possibility with a back-halfed car with a cage. Arghhh"

If you cannot drive it, you cannot enjoy it.

Cajundude

Why would you even do this to street car? I think my hp is too much for the street. There is never any space to let her rip and if you do you risk the chance of being arrested. Mucho fun at the track though. If you are making a track only car, I say go for it but to makes a street car with that much hp seems like it would be done for bragging rights, which again, if that's your thing go for it. You will NEVER be able to fully use half that power on the street. If this car would be a show car, go for it.

SR71

Take it from a guy who drives a back half/th400/ big stuff 3 equiped c5 on the street, it's not a big deal. with my 3.50 gears, 31" tires and tight 3600 converter, cruising highway speed at 2400 rpms is no problem. I don't mind driving my car a bit. as a matter of fact, I look forward to every time I get to take it out. alot of c5 guys think a car is unstreetable if it doesn't drive exactly like it did stock. well, my car drives just fine. it just doesn't have ac or ps. neither did my ford ranger.

I would skip the od trans and buy a full tilt 2000hp braked th400 and run a very mild rear gear. with that kind of power you could probably get away with 3.08 gears and still run the number. the tbrake is a must to build launch boost on the line. some will say powerglide. I just don't like how a pg pulls away from a stoplight. you are just putting alot of heat in it everytime you start out.

as for a cage, it is a neccessary evil to not get thrown out of tracks. get a full cage with swingout doorbars and you CAN live with it.

american hp, I normally agree with you, but you are dead wrong about streetability. a 454ci lsx engine with 2 76mm turbos can be very streetable. his engine could actually be less radical than yours. but when the big boost hits those big cubic inches, BIG HP will be made. the warhawk block and heads have 6 bolts around each cyl and will take massive amounts of blow without lifting the heads. how is it less streetable than your set-up??? I have the kind of drivetrain parts he is thinking about, and I drive my car daily in nice weather. I'm not making assumptions based on personal opinions here like everyone else. I am speaking from personal experience.

I did my own engine and chassis work and can tell you what it takes to fit all of this in a c5. send me a pm if you want to talk. it takes too long for me to peck out these replies.

Tom

SR71

one word....INTIMIDATION!!!

you get more attention driving a back halved c5 than you would driving a ferrari that was on fire. nothing says "don't F with me!!!" like big tires and turbo whine.

nuglut

so i take it this will be an auto-x car?