sabastian458

To help others from having to read all the pages to see where my build landed, I updated this post with what happened. The car is currently completely together and running, although in a N/A form for the time being. I have driven it 1 mile in the 6 months it's being running. Date of this edit 2/13/17

So long story short, I will be rebuilding my LS2 powered C5Z this coming year. (YT rocker failure lead to finding another issue after another) I already had intentions on throwing a F1R on the car next year, but I'm decided on TT's instead. EDIT- Sorry, this post is a LONG read but I wanted to lay out the full plans/intentions so any input given, as much of the info is already here.

What I am looking at doing is a twin turbo set up, BW S366's most likely, mounting in fender wells, either a forged 364, or forged 402. Power numbers aren't really a goal here, mainly a 700-800whp car with really good street manors with valve train longevity in mind. I would like to get 5-10 years out of the car before having to open it again. (currently averaging 4,500 miles per year driven, most likely will go up to about 6,000 miles annually)

Still going twins, but not BW due to kit that I am looking at can not fit them. I considered trying anyways but my free time has been greatly reduced in the last year or so. Still looking at 800ish Street HP, 1000+ on the track

Doing this in stages of this next year, starting with supporting mods leading up to the engine build. I will be patching my original LS6 to put in and get the TT built and bugs worked out, then building the LS2 for boost. (looking for 20-25 psi on pump, but having E85 capabilities)
No LS6 patch or install, Built the LS2 fully. Expected PSI of 15ish, or whatever gets to 800-850 without blowing up. 5% chance of running E85, just not as readily available in my driving area.

I have a good working stock diff and 6 speed currently, only planing on adding a ECS transmission/diff brace, I already have the Hinson Urethane mounts (not installed currently) Also plan on adding Amsoil fluids. If it breaks later, it will get upgraded then.
ECS trans brace, Torque Tamer, and PFADT trans mount installed. I found out I have the wrong Hinson Mounts, need to get the shorty mounts for the turbo kit and for the FAST fitment. I also went through the trans and diff to freshen and update some parts.

The torque tube needed to be rebuilt (rattled more than usual, suspect front bearing failing) I'm assuming a stock rebuild with OEM BMW guibos would be fine? Looking for advice here please.
Rebuilt tube with new bearings, ARP quibo bolts, aluminum 6 shooter guibos. Exact same noise as before the rebuild. Just going to live with it.

On the clutch, I am running a Monster STG3 with Chromoly flywheel, Tick Master and lines double heat wrapped, factory slave with 6k on it, & Motul fluid. When the built engine goes in and the boost goes up, I plan on a QuickTime housing, a new slave, and a twin clutch. I am thinking a RST Mcloed would be sufficent. Input?
Originally bought a RXT to use with the Monster Flywheel, but luck be had, Steve Addison at Monster read a post of mine on another thread in regards to someone else's Level 3 or 3.5 setup and we talked about my setup via email. He HOOKED me up BIG TIME! So the car has a Monster Billet Twin level 2 with customer spec'd discs. BEAUTIFUL setup

Currently the car already has the PFADT suspension bushings, Bilstein shocks, C6Z06 brakes front & rear, SS lines, Motul fluid, Nitto Invos (will go with NT-05's next) No real plans on changes here any time soon. Any Input here?
No changes here other than brake fluid swapped over to Motul 5.1 fluid instead of the Motul 600

For fuel, I already purchased the majority of a large custom system. I just need to buy pumps and harnesses. Intend to run 2 Stealth 340's (1 full time, 1 hobbs switched) Y'ed in the tank, -10 AN line to the rail, split into -6 AN into each rail, -6 AN out into an Aeromotive regulator, -6 AN into the factory feed, factory fuel filter removed and adaptor installed to connect factory feed line into the factory cross over into the passenger tank, stock lines back into driver tank. This should keep the siphon pump working properly. I have 60 lb'ers right now, will replace for 93lb'ers. Is that enough fuel?
HA, yeah after installation of my DIY fuel system, I should have went with -8 feed instead of -10. It takes a little while to fill the line in order to start. I also am running just a single 255 (the racetronix setup with hotwire). I also added an orifice and check valve, all should be described in my DIY fuel thread.

Now the heart of the mater, the LS2. I am wanting a realiable engine. Sounds like a catch 22, I know. I am unsure if I want a 364 or a 402, leaning toward the 402. I am thinking Manley rods & pistons on either, and if stroker a Thompson Motorsports crank. Misc other parts; ARP main/head studs, Clevite rod/main/cam bearings, C5R chain (maybe double roller, what's best here?), new oil pump (high flow), LS9 camshaft (looking for that valve train survivability) LS9 head gaskets. That should round out the short block, any suggestions here?
I blew my budget on the the engine. Dust settled on 403 ci LS2 (402 for the search tool) block fully deburred, oil galley crossover machined much larger, DOD towers mechanically plugged, Lunati crank and rods, Wiseco pistons, ARP everywhere, Melling pump with a lot of porting on the housing, Cloyes Adjustable double roller, Cam speced by Tony Mamo, SLR Johnson link bar lifters, 3/8 pushrods

On the top end, I will be reusing my TF 220's with the newest YT rockers I recieved. I want to have the heads sent and worked over, sent an email to TEA on 10/30/12 and still haven't heard back, so any suggestions for someone else for good head work? I also have a FAST 92 that I'd like to keep using, but with the psi level I want to run, I doubt it will stay together, am I wrong in that? I am thinking of running Brain Tooley springs on the TF heads.
Heads- Sent the TFS 220's over to Tony Mamo to be fully worked, also did the FAST and stock 90 mm throttle body. Went with the Yella Terra rockers, 3rd time is the charm! If anything happens again, i will go with stock upgraded rockers

Turbo's like said will be twin S366's in a T4 .91 A/R 71mm. I wanted to mount them close to the block and as high as I could. I emailed Turbo Technology on getting a set of their manifolds, but they did not seem that interested in selling them nor were they very recieptive of my turbo plans. Plus the BW turbos are physically larger than most and I don't think they will fit tucked near the block. So the next place is in the fenders. I would like to squeeze a 3 in down pipe out of that area, but 2.5 might be all that I can, fine with either way. Waste gates dumping back into the exhaust for quietness.
No BW, looking at 6468 billets, T4 w/ .81/.96 housing. Looking at a different kit. Side of block mounting.

I will be running an A2W intercooler, most likely mounted in the area in front of the front tires in the bumper. The reservoir will need to be mounted in the rear. I will also have the battery in the rear too. Which ever side the A2W cooler is mounted, the reservoir will be on the same side but in the rear in the trunk area (in the cubby and above it). The heat exchanger in the front of the condenser, but I am thinking of adding a smaller one with a fan on it in the rear brake duct on the same side (current can not run the brake ducts due to wheel/tire clearance) the cooler will be on the return water line to post cool the water before going back into the reservoir. Would like to have the system in the 5-6 gallon range maybe more to avoid heat soaking the water.
No A2W, to complex/expensive, but *might* reconsider it much later down the road. A2A intercooler

I have beeing thinking this setup over for some time now and I think if have most of my bases covered. I know that in the 700-800 hp range the trans/diff are on limited time, I'm ok with that right now. I will add a bolt in cage after some time also, not sure when before or after the engine.


If you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read it, some of my posts can be long winded. Looking for some constructive input, other ideas, or helpful advice. So there it is, my whole plan. So whatcha got Thanks again by the way!


EDIT
So it's been decided, forged 402 for boost is getting built. 9.62:1 compression ratio is what the math comes out to. (4in stroke, 4in piston, .051 compressed gasket, 20cc dish, +.005 deck clearance, 64cc chambers)
Compression ended up being 10:1 higher than what I wanted but its what I have got to run.

Since the engine is being built now, I will be holding off on the A2W cooler. I am laying the radiator/condenser over and fitting the A2A cooler in front of that.
Not laying the rad/condenser over. Stock placement.

I'm going to attempt the single S480 T6 turbo. Unsure of how at the moment. Once the engine is finished and back in the car I will start seeing where I can best put it. (Borrowing a junked turbo for fitment) if it turns out that its impossible to fit, I will go with twin S366's, S256's will be too small and become a choking point on the 402.
Not doing this.

breecher_7

20-25lbs and your only looking for 700-800whp? Just to give you an idea my buddies old 364ci laid down 915whp at 19lbs and had excellent street manners. The plan you have sounds good, but a bit much for your horsepower goals.

None the less, can't wait to see it come together!

SBCGENII

Twin T4 71mm 800rwhp?

sabastian458

The S366 is a 66mm compressor, 71mm turbine wheel. I intentionally set my power goals lower because thats what I want, but would like to have room to grow later down the road. I want to build something that isn't taxed or at its limit to make power. I think I have done that with this.

For the guys who have built TT cars, any thing I am over looking or any suggestions/pointers to look out for?

To add, I would like to use the stock ECU and possibly have switchable maps (either switch with a switch or with HPTuners which I have). I also already have the starter covered with a heat blanket, but all the exhaust piping I will have cermamic coated and then header wrapped, along with turbo blankets. Cold piping I will have flat black powder coated.

On gauges, the Aeromotive FPR has a mechanical gauge already, I have an A/F ratio gauge to install, and will be picking up a Boost gauge and a dual water temp gauge (2 water sending units, 1 installed in the A2W intercooler & 1 installed in the reservoir) I would like to not turn the inside of the car into the space shuttle with all the gauges, but are there any others that I really should get?

sabastian458

Slight update.

Picked up all the parts to rebuild my torque tube, minus the bolts. Will get those when I get the tube apart. Picked up a trans brace too. About to pick up the McLoed RXT in the next week. Then begins the turbo parts purchases. Been looking for a junk S300 for test fitment.

Been debating on going to twin s256's over the s366's. both for fit and lower output with better spool. Not decided.

Also will be patching the LS2 for now, and doing a stock bottom end build. So power output is being capped at 6-700 wheel for now. The forged engine will come later down the road. Trying for a completion date around early August now, so I can make one of the Heaven's Landing 1/2 mile event days in September. Not 100% confident that will happen tho.

StatmanRN

With the smaller engine and more modest goal Id go with the BW256, as they should spool much faster and be better suited to the street. Also, I think you will get better results from an ATA intercooler with meth then an ATW unit in terms of both IATs and octane boost unless you run E85.
Youre looking at a whole lot of time and effort in fabrication here esp for 6-700 hp. Do you have the time tools and skills?
I run S252s on a used STS system. 534/556 now on dead stock ls1; Im pretty sure I will hit 700 at my stage 2 build. If you want front mounts and big power, I would either go with a TTix setup and whatever they recomend or use the UPI kit as a starting point.

sabastian458

Yes, I have the skills, space and tools to do this, time? Lol I never have time, but I'm not in a rush for this.

I'm pretty set on A2W, I don't want a front mount. I have sketched up a rough setup that should be over kill to combat heat soak.

What's your spool time with the S256's in the rear? 5psi at what rpm

I think the S256's would be able to fit next the block, between the frame and engine, S366's not so much. Those would be mounted in the fender wells.

I'm thinking of selling the trick flows, rockers, and FAST 92 and moving to a worked set of LS3's, but $ will be a factor for that. I may do that during the forged build.

StatmanRN

To be honest, I dont know at 5#. Too busy watching the road. Im at full 10# about 3200-3500 with any kind of load. I think I have s200 hot sides, have to check the invoice.
Keep the trick flows. Think youll get better velocity and comperable if not better top end. Also would keep some compression. What are the specs on your cam?
My bud Colin runs a ATW in his 30#, 1128HP 7 sec ohc turbo mustang with alcohol and dry ice. He agrees with me that you'd be better off on the street with the ATA and meth at your level.
Or you could try what Ive done before, a very small hit [<50] of N20 for the intercooling effect. Saves a lot of plumbing. Plus INSTANT boost. I did it on a carbed 2.2 mopar turbo to beat the ricers at their own game.

StatmanRN

BTW on tires, I run NTo5s in the stock size and have some spin when boost hits [this is where a bit of turbo lag helps launch], also have some NTo5 DR in 315/40 18 that should work on an ocasional basis with the right offset. Trying to find the right wheels.
One thing to consider is that if you start making power, something has to give or you will be spitting up driveline parts, be it the clutch or tires.
I run a RPS dual clutch. love it.

Thompson Motorsports

Give us a call on the motor, It looks like you are all ready planning on using our crankshaft but we can help you with questions concerning the whole build. We build so many of these engines we can really help cut down on the number of un answered questions you might have and probably save you some money along the way.

LedfootLarry

Sound like an awesome build!
What is different about the thompson crankshafts ?

Ls240sx

I have twin s256's on my ls2. Spool is awesome! They are great street turbos. Mine are next to the block and fit well. They are snug but they fit. The physical size of the bw turbos are a bit bigger than most. You def would not be able to fit 366's in there. I have the same goals as you for the most part.. Make 700 ish and have it be very drivable. My only mods are the turbos and a victor jr. 550 whp @ 5psi so far

sabastian458

Can you shoot me a few pictures of your set up. sabastian458@yahoo.com

Are your knock sensors on the side of the block too?


If the trick flows don't have any bent valves, or require the seats worked, I will use them again. I can not find ANYONE that will give era price on working these heads. I keep getting told to buy new ones.

My next decision is whether I should try to run these pistons with boost, or break the stock LS6 out of storage and use it. See pic attached.

Ls240sx

emailed you a link to pics of my build. Yes my knock sensors are on the side of the block.

sabastian458

Well, it's settles now. I have no choice but to do an overhaul/rebuild. I found one flake of bearing in the oil pickup. Once I had the cam out, I looked at the bearing and that's what I saw.

Oh, another cam bits the dust.



How the hell does this happen? This is my second cam/second engine that this has happened on. The original LS6 (20k miles on the car, unknown how many on the cam) had a LG cam that this happened on but worse. This cam, a vindicator, has less than 20k on it in the LS2. I bought it new. What's happening that causes this? What can I do differently to keep it from happening again?

Here is the pistons all cleaned up, what are they worth?

StatmanRN

You are going to have to pull it now and go through it. Might as well build it right.
What did the lifter look like for that bore? Did the roller sieze up?

sabastian458

It still rolled, but obvious didn't feel right. During disassembly I pretty much knew the cam was done, but never suspected that the cam bearings would look like that.

Side note, why is it difficult to get vendors to email you back?

StatmanRN

I find they are generally much more responsive when the email potentially nets a sale vs a problem.
A local old school machinist here in Tampa [now retired] showed me how many cams were not straight out of the box. He always checked for runout, said it was a major cause of cam bearing failure.
When it failed before, was it the same lobe? Lifter bore cocked?

sabastian458

The prior failure was in the factory LS6, and 11 of 16 lobes were trashed. I pulled that whole thing out and bagged it for later use or repair & resale. It only has 20k miles on it. The rollers on it still rolled but had some tight spots where I presume the needle bearing had flat spotted.

I'm going to go with a less aggressive cam this time, less lift. I'm hoping that with help with this issue.


On the email, I just asked for a price quote on about $3k of parts. I need to make time to make phone calls, seems that's really the best thing to do to get a response.

sabastian458

Ok, spent too much time today pricing what I believe will be the most cost effective build for me. Here is what I came up with.

Lunati 4in stroke crank (LUN-70340001)
Lunati 6.125 connecting rods (LUN-70361251-8)
Wiseco 20cc dish pistons (WIS-K456X05)
Clevite coated main bearings (CLE-MS2199HK)
Lunati coated rod bearings (LUN-CB663HK)
Melling oil pump (MEL-10355)
Brian Tooley springs for the TFS heads (SP002)
COMP timing set, adjustable (CCA-3158KT)
LS9 head gaskets (12622033)
LS9 camshaft (12638427)
Lifter set (12499225)
Lifter trays (12595365)


That puts me at $3060 plus balancing. I need to get a few replacement head studs, trashed the Allen bit portion and ended up using a stud extractor on them which killed the threads. Don't know how much that will cost. Or if I should risk using those sub $80 head studs from ls1tech.

Then I can finally start on the turbo building. Reconsidering turbos again since I will be forging sooner than later. Choices at them moment are twin S256's between block/frame, twin S366's in the fender, or a single S480 where the supercharger usually sits (or maybe in the pass side fender if it fits. IDK yet). T4 housings on the S256/S366 and T6 on the S480.

Things to ponder while fighting sinus issues....