Ksths2

Hey guys,
I need some help with my race 02 C5 Vette. I’ve got a new AES 408 LS engine for it and in the past this has been a nitrous car but the new setup is going to be forced induction to be competitive again in our local street legal shootout class.

For the past year I’ve been working with A&A supercharging using a Vortech YSI V7 supercharger but after talking with my tuner yesterday (BTW he is one of the best forced induction tuners out there) he told me I’d be changing belts and fighting belt slip etc and he said to go twin TTIX turbo’s. Obviously a major difference from supercharger and I value his opinion since he’ll be tuning this car as well but I know there are C5 cars out there running that kind of power with SC’s. He actually had a car on the rollers while I was there with a YSI kit on it and it had a 8 rib secondary drive as well and it made 892 rwhp but wouldn’t make any more cuz the belt was slipping, he also showed me a pile of junk 8 rib, 10 rib and cog belts that were laying there, there was even a new cog belt laying there that had 6 pulls on the dyno and it then stripped the teeth right off of it.

A little more background on what’s happening, the new engine is an LQ4 iron block 408, ported LS3 heads, 10.5:1 compression with good parts inside, running E85, and holley high ram intake, also a full race RPM transmission trans with a tight 4000 nitrous converter, built diff with 3.90 gear and Hoosier QTP 10.5” tires. The class rules are mufflers and DOT tires and I hurt the original engine 2 years ago and trying to build up enough cash to get a faster setup.

To be competitive this car needs to be High 8’s or +1000rwhp so it needs to have some major air pushed into it.

The reason why my tuner said to steer away from the SC setup is due to belt slippage & breakage. He said he cannot keep belts from slipping at that kind of power level. The system I was planning on going with from A&A SC mainly due to the fact they have an exact kit to use in my C5 and they say will make as much power as I’m wanting. It uses their secondary drive system which means its an 8 rib belt that has very good belt wrap and the rest of the accessories are ran from a different belt. But they don’t offer a cog belt setup.

I need some help with what you guys think on this 8 rib setup vs. the hp I’m needing

I don’t want to go turbo mainly due to the extra cost, amount of crap/weight added to the car, and the difficulty of staging with no trans brake etc.

Anyway I just wanted to get the ball rolling and see what you guys thought etc.

Thanks

c5austin

You might get your tuner a Gates laser and tell him to follow these instructions. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-f...right-way.html There are plenty of super fast cars in here running ECS and A&A blowers with no problems

4DRUSH

Race cars don't have accessories. Go with 10rib belt & relocate your alternator to use stock 4 rib ac belt.

or

get a gear drive setup if allowed

Ksths2

Interesting on the alignment,

4drush, this one does lol - if I go 10 rib does that require a new radiator too? Obviously ur setup is working how are you doing it? Btw, who makes the front mount gear drive for a single SC like ur talking about?

mdaniel

The problem free big power car doesn't exist.
Blower and turbo cars both have their own set of issues. Pretending there aren't obvious and inherent potential issues is naive or insincere.

Given your goal of 8s and as someone who has had NA, centrifugal blowers, positive-displacement blowers, and turbos I'll tell you flat out to skip the blower/turbo for a drag car and spray the **** out of that sucker.

For road racing I'd say NA. For hybrid street/street duty I like turbos.

For a *****-out drag race car you can make anything work provided you throw enough money at it.

c5austin

Although I completely agree that with big power comes a lot of broken parts! BUT, to have a "pile" of belts leads me to think something is obviously off. Heck, on my 408 YSI, with a 2.85 I would drive 2 states away to Tx2k, tear it up, and drive back! No belt problems whatsoever! It's no racecar but this budget build gets it done!

ajrothm

Hmmm..weird...

Im only on my second belt in 2 years with a 10 rib setup and the first belt lasted 4k miles, tons of dyno pulls and countless highway bombs... This is with an F1R at 21 psi...

Me thinks your "tuner" needs to learn how to setup a belt drive...


That being said, turbos are definitely the way to go for BIG power and adjustability.

I'd throw a BIG single turbo on that thing and a transbrake.

robert miller

If I was going big time race car on the track. Big turbo like a 106 turbo and be done with it.

With this turbo and deep pockets for all the other stuff in the car looking at 185 to 200 plus mph in the car in 1/4 mile.

Y2KRoadster

I am at 20.8 PSI on an 8 rib/secondary drive setup. No slippage at all.

mdaniel

That's just pressure, not power and not torque.
Are you making passes with 21 psi or just spinning rollers?
What holds up to light play and a sticky tire at the track aren't always the same.

a/c man

YSI 8 rib here no problems low 9s

MVP'S ZO6

Ysi,10 rib & Secondary Drive here. I Had belt alignment issues at first but they're all squared away now and I have no signs of belt slippage at 22 psi.

Ksths2

man this is all great news! I'm sticking with my original goals with the YSI - Thanks a TON!!

BTW, i know a couple of you said you run a 10 rib setup, will that work with A&A's secondary drive? What else needs to change? Alternator, radiator? Do you think the 8 rib is ok or just go 10 rib to begin with?

I didn't mention "budget" cuz there's no such thing anymore but I definently don't have "deep pockets"

Another thing, I noticed you guys are doing it with RPM trans like me, what Level is it and what are you guys running for rear gearing? RPM told me to stick with the 3.90 thats in it for now and see how it runs but i'm assuming i'll end up with 3.42 or 3.73?

Also what for converter?

And last, how are you guys getting traction with that much power at +17lbs of boost? as we all know these cars don't allow a giant tire on it. I'm running Hoosier QTP's 28/11.5/16 which measure 10.5" tread and 12" overall width and its super close to the inner wheel wells and outer quarter panel lip (its a Bogart 16x10" rim)

thanks again guys I really appreciate it

breecher_7

Your "tooner" is a idiot and needs to learn how to align pulleys.

My buddy ran for 2 years, 900+whp, and 8K+ street miles on a single 8 rib belt with no issues and the belt was still fine when he decided to pull it off and go to a 10 rib. Belt alignment is key, without a calibrated laser tool all you are doing is guessing and you WILL shred belts.

Go 10 rib with a direct drive from the get go and dont look back. Also, people have had issues with the 4 rib belts for the direct drive jackshaft slipping... Send your balancer and jackshaft to Doug@ECS and have him do the cog drive conversion on it right away, no more slip.

MVP'S ZO6

All and all in the end, when using a secondary drive there's not much of a price difference between the 8 and 10 rib. More ribs aren't a bad thing when running a substantial amount of boost. Yes you can run a 10 rib blower and crank pulley configuration with your multi belt drive system of choice. 22 psi here and not a single sign of belt slippage on my 402/ysi combo with Andys secondary drive and a 10 rib combo.

I don't think you're going to like the 3.90 gear if you plan on driving on the street. Just my opinion.

ajrothm

You're gonna need 3.42s eventually when you get close to 8s, unless you're gonna spin it to 7500 through the traps...A lot depends on your converter efficiency.. I can tell you that with 3.42s, 28" and 151 mph is around 6900 rpms in the traps with a converter slipping 11.5%. You're gonna need atleast 150 mph to go 8.90.... probably more like 152 mph with a 1.35 or better 60'.

Good luck with the chase for 8s... We're all trying.. Its an expensive quest just trying to keep drivetrains alive.

directnosfogger

so much good info, these are the conversations i enjoy reading. actual experience. you guys spray meth with your ysi's? if so how many injectors and sizing?

breecher_7

Dual Nozzle, 15ml.........

Unreal

Go 10 rib right off the bat. Also look into the ECS setups.

I ran a little slip on a 2.75/8" Ysi combo but still made 1048rwhp. That was 8 rib and direct drive. Swapping to 10 rib with cogged ECS a/c setup and that should solve everything. Had ~7k miles on my last 8 rib belt with no issues besides boost would drop from 6k+ from slip but never tossed or lost a belt once it was aligned.

blown81bu

I would never ever trade my novi 2000 for a turbo...
MY experience once i learned my 8 rib setup i got most belt wrap and went with a green back belt and no more slip
I think im good now...
U dont need 1000rwhp to go 8s!!
850-900 should cut it with the right gear 3.42s and a great solid converter...i use pro yank 3400
and dont forget traction..I went with the 15" conversion with mickey pros

I will soon be testing once i get my trans and rear back from RPM for upgrades and i have 800 rwhp and i think it will run 8s..150ish
I used a mustang dyno and unlocked converter so my number maybe lower