Question about stock LS6
05-14-2015, 10:03 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Question about stock LS6
I've been thinking about putting an A&A setup on my car for some time, with the intent of building a forged motor at some point. I gather you want to keep the boost low, let's say 8 pounds to be safe but does that mean you can do head work and say intake or cam and increase your over all house power without really increase the chances of damaging the motor? Looks like piston and rods are the week point, is it worth putting a set of AP rod bolts on?
Thx Rich
Thx Rich
Last edited by Titan22; 05-14-2015 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Forgot something
05-15-2015, 01:52 AM
#3
ISIS SUCKS FAT CHOAD
You will be fine increasing cylinder head flow.
In reality if you make say 10 lbs of boost on a given combo and then change the engine volumetric efficiency by say porting your cylinder heads, the engine will actually make less boost but more power. Why? Simply put you are increasing your engines volumetric efficiency.
Don't get too caught up on boost numbers as they are merely the numerical representation of the amount of airflow restriction.
There's more too it but for the purpose of this post just keep those ideas in your head.
A supercharger or method of forced induction actually changes your engines effective compression ratio. In your case a rough guesstimate would be that your engine would have an effective compression ratio of about 16 : 1. At 10 lbs of boost it would be around. 17.6 : 1
Long story short assuming you have a healthy engine you should be plenty fine running 8-10 lbs of boost safely with a proper tune and fuel system.
The tune is going to be a key factor as well. There's also the option for a methanol injection system if you so desire.
As far as opening the engine up to put a set of rod bolts in that's completely up to you. I personally wouldn't worry too much about it at your level. However, it most certainly can not hurt the strength of your rotating assembly to add some rod bolts. At that point though, you maybe have the engine out of the car... you have to ask yourself why not add a set of forged pistons and rods in?
Like I said it's really up to you. There are plenty of people on here on stock engines who are making 8-10 psi or more in some cases who daily drive their vehicles and they have been on the road for years. There is no exact power number that determines when parts fail or live. As a general rule of thumb I personally wouldn't go much more than 650-700 whp on a stock bottom end. The tune up is a big factor. And there have been guys to push their stock bottom end LS1/6 engines far beyond what I would push them and far beyond what you are trying to push yours. Obviously they know the risk increases; especially if racing all the time. However no tuner in the world can compensate for an over stresses engine component. I only mention that so as to not have you think that it's possible for a tuner to do such a think. My apologies in advance if I insulted your intelligence.
Hope this helped you out.
In reality if you make say 10 lbs of boost on a given combo and then change the engine volumetric efficiency by say porting your cylinder heads, the engine will actually make less boost but more power. Why? Simply put you are increasing your engines volumetric efficiency.
Don't get too caught up on boost numbers as they are merely the numerical representation of the amount of airflow restriction.
There's more too it but for the purpose of this post just keep those ideas in your head.
A supercharger or method of forced induction actually changes your engines effective compression ratio. In your case a rough guesstimate would be that your engine would have an effective compression ratio of about 16 : 1. At 10 lbs of boost it would be around. 17.6 : 1
Long story short assuming you have a healthy engine you should be plenty fine running 8-10 lbs of boost safely with a proper tune and fuel system.
The tune is going to be a key factor as well. There's also the option for a methanol injection system if you so desire.
As far as opening the engine up to put a set of rod bolts in that's completely up to you. I personally wouldn't worry too much about it at your level. However, it most certainly can not hurt the strength of your rotating assembly to add some rod bolts. At that point though, you maybe have the engine out of the car... you have to ask yourself why not add a set of forged pistons and rods in?
Like I said it's really up to you. There are plenty of people on here on stock engines who are making 8-10 psi or more in some cases who daily drive their vehicles and they have been on the road for years. There is no exact power number that determines when parts fail or live. As a general rule of thumb I personally wouldn't go much more than 650-700 whp on a stock bottom end. The tune up is a big factor. And there have been guys to push their stock bottom end LS1/6 engines far beyond what I would push them and far beyond what you are trying to push yours. Obviously they know the risk increases; especially if racing all the time. However no tuner in the world can compensate for an over stresses engine component. I only mention that so as to not have you think that it's possible for a tuner to do such a think. My apologies in advance if I insulted your intelligence.
Hope this helped you out.
Last edited by MVP'S ZO6; 05-15-2015 at 01:55 AM.
05-15-2015, 08:44 AM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
You will be fine increasing cylinder head flow.
In reality if you make say 10 lbs of boost on a given combo and then change the engine volumetric efficiency by say porting your cylinder heads, the engine will actually make less boost but more power. Why? Simply put you are increasing your engines volumetric efficiency.
Don't get too caught up on boost numbers as they are merely the numerical representation of the amount of airflow restriction.
There's more too it but for the purpose of this post just keep those ideas in your head.
A supercharger or method of forced induction actually changes your engines effective compression ratio. In your case a rough guesstimate would be that your engine would have an effective compression ratio of about 16 : 1. At 10 lbs of boost it would be around. 17.6 : 1
Long story short assuming you have a healthy engine you should be plenty fine running 8-10 lbs of boost safely with a proper tune and fuel system.
The tune is going to be a key factor as well. There's also the option for a methanol injection system if you so desire.
As far as opening the engine up to put a set of rod bolts in that's completely up to you. I personally wouldn't worry too much about it at your level. However, it most certainly can not hurt the strength of your rotating assembly to add some rod bolts. At that point though, you maybe have the engine out of the car... you have to ask yourself why not add a set of forged pistons and rods in?
Like I said it's really up to you. There are plenty of people on here on stock engines who are making 8-10 psi or more in some cases who daily drive their vehicles and they have been on the road for years. There is no exact power number that determines when parts fail or live. As a general rule of thumb I personally wouldn't go much more than 650-700 whp on a stock bottom end. The tune up is a big factor. And there have been guys to push their stock bottom end LS1/6 engines far beyond what I would push them and far beyond what you are trying to push yours. Obviously they know the risk increases; especially if racing all the time. However no tuner in the world can compensate for an over stresses engine component. I only mention that so as to not have you think that it's possible for a tuner to do such a think. My apologies in advance if I insulted your intelligence.
Hope this helped you out.
In reality if you make say 10 lbs of boost on a given combo and then change the engine volumetric efficiency by say porting your cylinder heads, the engine will actually make less boost but more power. Why? Simply put you are increasing your engines volumetric efficiency.
Don't get too caught up on boost numbers as they are merely the numerical representation of the amount of airflow restriction.
There's more too it but for the purpose of this post just keep those ideas in your head.
A supercharger or method of forced induction actually changes your engines effective compression ratio. In your case a rough guesstimate would be that your engine would have an effective compression ratio of about 16 : 1. At 10 lbs of boost it would be around. 17.6 : 1
Long story short assuming you have a healthy engine you should be plenty fine running 8-10 lbs of boost safely with a proper tune and fuel system.
The tune is going to be a key factor as well. There's also the option for a methanol injection system if you so desire.
As far as opening the engine up to put a set of rod bolts in that's completely up to you. I personally wouldn't worry too much about it at your level. However, it most certainly can not hurt the strength of your rotating assembly to add some rod bolts. At that point though, you maybe have the engine out of the car... you have to ask yourself why not add a set of forged pistons and rods in?
Like I said it's really up to you. There are plenty of people on here on stock engines who are making 8-10 psi or more in some cases who daily drive their vehicles and they have been on the road for years. There is no exact power number that determines when parts fail or live. As a general rule of thumb I personally wouldn't go much more than 650-700 whp on a stock bottom end. The tune up is a big factor. And there have been guys to push their stock bottom end LS1/6 engines far beyond what I would push them and far beyond what you are trying to push yours. Obviously they know the risk increases; especially if racing all the time. However no tuner in the world can compensate for an over stresses engine component. I only mention that so as to not have you think that it's possible for a tuner to do such a think. My apologies in advance if I insulted your intelligence.
Hope this helped you out.
This is the information I'm looking for. Like I'd mentioned long term is to build a forged motor, most likely a stroked LS3 but one step at a time. My anitional concern was possible damage to my motor but If I can safly run it for a year or two that's great.
Thx for the time and no insult to my intelligence, that's why I'm asking..
05-15-2015, 09:12 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
Generally speaking have a safe tune and keep it around 600rwhp on stock bottom. Meth will help cool down the cylinder temps and is a good idea as well. Yes you can push more pretty safely but I think it will be your best bet to keep it around 600. Run it for a few years then sell what you don't need when you go forged.
Forged LS3 with stock stroke but a slight bore would be a nice combo. Strokers are great don't get my wrong but they are just a bit less stable for forced induction. I doubt you would have any issues either way thats just my .02
Good Luck with the build!
Forged LS3 with stock stroke but a slight bore would be a nice combo. Strokers are great don't get my wrong but they are just a bit less stable for forced induction. I doubt you would have any issues either way thats just my .02
Good Luck with the build!
05-15-2015, 11:54 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
My stock LS1 lived for about 1.5 yrs at 17 to 20 psi and lots of racing abuse. Prior to that it was on lower settings for about 3 years. 8 to 10 psi on a stock LS6 would be very easy with the correct tune, fuel, and regular maintenance. At that level, it should last a long time.
Don't misunderstand, there aren't any guarantees. You can search on here and find plenty that blew up at 500 rwhp. There were, in my opinion, other factors involved.
Don't misunderstand, there aren't any guarantees. You can search on here and find plenty that blew up at 500 rwhp. There were, in my opinion, other factors involved.
05-15-2015, 12:12 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
i beat the hell out of mine with a consistent 15 pounds. got a little greedy chasing that all elusive 8.x and it finally let go. i figure i was around 24 when it went.
05-15-2015, 02:04 PM
#8
Drifting
8 psi all stock bottom end will be fine as long as you stay at stock redline and get a good tune. I'm running 11.5 psi on ls6 comp ratio and weaker early ls1 rod bolts and it has been going for several years (stock ls1 redline).
I would not open up the bottom end to do rod bolts, if you are going to go into it replace the rods and pistons other wise do not disturb it.
I would not open up the bottom end to do rod bolts, if you are going to go into it replace the rods and pistons other wise do not disturb it.
05-15-2015, 03:20 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Since we are on the topic of boosted LS6's and their weaknesses...what about the crank?
When I had my forged LS6 built, the only stock internal left is the crank. What's it good for?
When I had my forged LS6 built, the only stock internal left is the crank. What's it good for?
05-15-2015, 03:23 PM
#10
This is the information I'm looking for. Like I'd mentioned long term is to build a forged motor, most likely a stroked LS3 but one step at a time. My anitional concern was possible damage to my motor but If I can safly run it for a year or two that's great.
Thx for the time and no insult to my intelligence, that's why I'm asking..
Thx for the time and no insult to my intelligence, that's why I'm asking..
JUST DO IT. If you plan on building a forged motor then wtf does it matter if it blows? If it's your DD then you're doing it wrong. Just slap it on and do work son.
EDIT, why waste money on a LS3? Just blow the LS6 up and forge that.
Last edited by danieloneil01; 05-15-2015 at 03:30 PM.
05-15-2015, 03:28 PM
#11
The stock crank is good for a ton of power. I'll throw out a number for you since that's what you want and I'm just some dude behind a computer on them internets, 1,000bhp.
05-15-2015, 03:33 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
05-15-2015, 04:03 PM
#13
ISIS SUCKS FAT CHOAD
Actually, I'm going to go more into detail than him, so take notes.
JUST DO IT. If you plan on building a forged motor then wtf does it matter if it blows? If it's your DD then you're doing it wrong. Just slap it on and do work son.
EDIT, why waste money on a LS3? Just blow the LS6 up and forge that.
JUST DO IT. If you plan on building a forged motor then wtf does it matter if it blows? If it's your DD then you're doing it wrong. Just slap it on and do work son.
EDIT, why waste money on a LS3? Just blow the LS6 up and forge that.
Why blow up a good LS6? What if the engine really comes apart and "Blows Up" beyond the point of rebuilding? Wouldn't it be better to get some money for a used engine than to get none for a blown up piece of scrap metal? I suppose the LS3 vs LS6 is a personal preference.
OP you have plenty of information now to make your decision.
05-15-2015, 04:42 PM
#14
Why blow up a good LS6? What if the engine really comes apart and "Blows Up" beyond the point of rebuilding? Wouldn't it be better to get some money for a used engine than to get none for a blown up piece of scrap metal? I suppose the LS3 vs LS6 is a personal preference.
OP you have plenty of information now to make your decision.
OP you have plenty of information now to make your decision.
Just slap the blower on, get a good tune with meth and have fun. If it's done right with a proper tune he'll be selling the car like a lot of boosted vette owners do before the engine pops. It'll last longer than he thinks.
Personally mine has stayed together running 10#s tuned ON meth longer than I thought. I've even had a few 1/4 runs running 15#s with the AFR close to 13:1 the entire time. Just replace the stock pump, valve springs and head bolts.
Last edited by danieloneil01; 05-15-2015 at 04:45 PM.
05-15-2015, 04:56 PM
#15
ISIS SUCKS FAT CHOAD
I thought he was talking about stroking an LS3?
On that note I believe the real waste of money would be pushing a stock engine to the point at which it pukes since no one really knows to what extent it may puke.
On that note I believe the real waste of money would be pushing a stock engine to the point at which it pukes since no one really knows to what extent it may puke.
Last edited by MVP'S ZO6; 05-15-2015 at 05:08 PM.
05-15-2015, 08:30 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
My stock LS6 lasted 4k miles at 10 psi. That was with single nozzle meth, afr at 10.5 and timing at 15*. Made good power at 622rwhp with only headers/exhaust/blower but...killed #5 & 7 Pistons pretty quick.
That sent me down a $50k+ spending spree...
Knowing what I know now, I would not have done it.. (The spending spree)
That sent me down a $50k+ spending spree...
Knowing what I know now, I would not have done it.. (The spending spree)
05-15-2015, 09:15 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
I tell like I see it..... If you don't have money to fix whatever breaks and it's your dd then be cautious, if you can afford to be without the car while waiting to get repaired or saving for new stuff go for it! A boosted c5 is awesome on the street... Kind of a sleeper (if a Vette can be a sleeper).
Just remember there is more to break than just the motor especially an a4. I broke lots of stuff and spent lots of money! I have way more money in upgrades then I paid for car ....it's easy to do. You probably knew all that though.
Best of luck
Adam
Just remember there is more to break than just the motor especially an a4. I broke lots of stuff and spent lots of money! I have way more money in upgrades then I paid for car ....it's easy to do. You probably knew all that though.
Best of luck
Adam
05-15-2015, 10:58 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Actually, I'm going to go more into detail than him, so take notes.
JUST DO IT. If you plan on building a forged motor then wtf does it matter if it blows? If it's your DD then you're doing it wrong. Just slap it on and do work son.
EDIT, why waste money on a LS3? Just blow the LS6 up and forge that.
JUST DO IT. If you plan on building a forged motor then wtf does it matter if it blows? If it's your DD then you're doing it wrong. Just slap it on and do work son.
EDIT, why waste money on a LS3? Just blow the LS6 up and forge that.