Excess power low gear, supercharged, all over the road, whats the point in more hp???
11-30-2015, 11:09 AM
#21
Supporting Vendor
If your car is kicking out sideways, you probably need to go through your differential. If it's a virgin diff, I'll bet money your clutch springs are toast. I've never seen a stock unit with miles have the clutch springs intact upon disassembly.
Road surface and surface temps are a big deal. Your tires must be quite old too. I run a Mickey 345/30/18 and traction was reasonable on my previous 1400whp setup, but reasonable is a relative term.
I could punch it at 60 on good concrete and not blow tires. It would spin, but RPM's were under control and the car was gaining momentum nicely.
Road surface and surface temps are a big deal. Your tires must be quite old too. I run a Mickey 345/30/18 and traction was reasonable on my previous 1400whp setup, but reasonable is a relative term.
I could punch it at 60 on good concrete and not blow tires. It would spin, but RPM's were under control and the car was gaining momentum nicely.
11-30-2015, 11:26 AM
#22
Drifting
All of these rwhp # are arbitrary with out a standardized unit of measurement ....
You think 500rwhp in 1st gear with a M12 (6 speed) and 4.10's is even remotely close to 500rwhp in 1St gear with a glide with 3.42's.........
Speaking in rwtq as a standardized unit to convey the power you are trying to control at the tire. Then it will start to make sense why some guys have traction problems while others think their crazy....
Tq at the specific rpm x trans ratio x gear ratio....that should get you in the ballpark for the discussion.
This is just my $.02....
Thanks.....
.
You think 500rwhp in 1st gear with a M12 (6 speed) and 4.10's is even remotely close to 500rwhp in 1St gear with a glide with 3.42's.........
Speaking in rwtq as a standardized unit to convey the power you are trying to control at the tire. Then it will start to make sense why some guys have traction problems while others think their crazy....
Tq at the specific rpm x trans ratio x gear ratio....that should get you in the ballpark for the discussion.
This is just my $.02....
Thanks.....
.
Ok ok maybe my car isn't a good comparison lol
But, I do have several street racer customers local that I tune one in particular that makes 600+ wtq on a small shot of gas and that car hooks all of it in 2nd gear on a 19" drag radial. Another that's 700wtq (408 D1) on a 15" tire that doesn't spin at all.
I'm just saying to the op I would start with tires
Last edited by Shoaf85; 11-30-2015 at 11:26 AM.
11-30-2015, 03:54 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
dead hooked from 35mph in 1st(00 manual FRC) when I made nearly 800rwhp(stock bottom end) up until about 5500rpms....i'd just short shift right to 2nd, immediate traction again. Those were old nitto 305/18s. Maybe look into your existing suspension, make sure bushings are all legit,...than look at tire dates(on side of tires)....but honestly if you aren't using a drag radial or a sticky tire you should expect wheelspin IN A C5 at that power level. I find C6 cars at that power level spin a lot less,...and are a lot less dramatic to try and keep straight then a C5 is.
11-30-2015, 07:52 PM
#26
I'm at 631/540 on 315/30/18 ps2 street tires...can't hook 1-3 which is expected. Gonna have the new et street 2 on a 315/35/17 and its gonna be a world of difference.
11-30-2015, 08:08 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
If your car is kicking out sideways, you probably need to go through your differential. If it's a virgin diff, I'll bet money your clutch springs are toast. I've never seen a stock unit with miles have the clutch springs intact upon disassembly.
Road surface and surface temps are a big deal. Your tires must be quite old too. I run a Mickey 345/30/18 and traction was reasonable on my previous 1400whp setup, but reasonable is a relative term.
I could punch it at 60 on good concrete and not blow tires. It would spin, but RPM's were under control and the car was gaining momentum nicely.
Road surface and surface temps are a big deal. Your tires must be quite old too. I run a Mickey 345/30/18 and traction was reasonable on my previous 1400whp setup, but reasonable is a relative term.
I could punch it at 60 on good concrete and not blow tires. It would spin, but RPM's were under control and the car was gaining momentum nicely.
If your tires are discontinued, they're probably pretty old and not nearly as sticky as a new set. Obviously the cold weather doesn't help. I had zero issues hooking up my 16's at up to 23psi on a 403 in 2nd gear with a set of MT et street 2's on old TT setup. Dive it for a while to get the tires warm, or quick spin, and would be good to go.
If it was impossible to hook 1000+whp on a radial, you wouldn't be seeing the half mile, etc. speeds that are being achieved.
11-30-2015, 09:37 PM
#28
Ok ok maybe my car isn't a good comparison lol
But, I do have several street racer customers local that I tune one in particular that makes 600+ wtq on a small shot of gas and that car hooks all of it in 2nd gear on a 19" drag radial. Another that's 700wtq (408 D1) on a 15" tire that doesn't spin at all.
I'm just saying to the op I would start with tires
But, I do have several street racer customers local that I tune one in particular that makes 600+ wtq on a small shot of gas and that car hooks all of it in 2nd gear on a 19" drag radial. Another that's 700wtq (408 D1) on a 15" tire that doesn't spin at all.
I'm just saying to the op I would start with tires
Just comparing the 1.76 first gear of the glide to the 2.97 first gear of the m12.....that's all....
450ftlbs through the m12 and 4.10's in first gear is 5500rwtq.
450ftlbs through the glide and 3.42's in first gear is 2700rwtq.
Both cars make the same power. ...but one obviously, will have more traction issues...
.
Last edited by LSOHOLIC; 11-30-2015 at 09:46 PM.
11-30-2015, 10:32 PM
#29
Drifting
Lol....that was not a jab at you....not at all.
Just comparing the 1.76 first gear of the glide to the 2.97 first gear of the m12.....that's all....
450ftlbs through the m12 and 4.10's in first gear is 5500rwtq.
450ftlbs through the glide and 3.42's in first gear is 2700rwtq.
Both cars make the same power. ...but one obviously, will have more traction issues...
.
Just comparing the 1.76 first gear of the glide to the 2.97 first gear of the m12.....that's all....
450ftlbs through the m12 and 4.10's in first gear is 5500rwtq.
450ftlbs through the glide and 3.42's in first gear is 2700rwtq.
Both cars make the same power. ...but one obviously, will have more traction issues...
.
12-01-2015, 08:13 AM
#30
Le Mans Master
Hi i want to see what you guys have done when you get into this dilemma...
550 rwhp, p1sc, meth/water inj, 6spd vert, 12 psi boost at 6000 rpm
Cooler air temps = more boost/ more power and less tire traction.
315 ish bfg drag radial 2's on the back (discontinued).
1st, sometimes 2nd kicks the back end out once rpms go past 5k.
I see all these '700 or 800 rwhp' stock bottom end builds.
How do you maintain traction?
What is the point of having 800 rwhp if you cant hook it to the ground?
Do you just pedal it around town, being careful not to open it up (unless you are on the highway in 4th gear or above) ?
And then put some real slicks on it for the track and hook / run 9s on the weekend (but be otherwise handicapped on the street).
With me being at 'entry level' boosted hp levels, i am dying to know How do you guys do it?
Is there some magical tire that hooks (and is somewhat streetable)? Im thinkin of trying toyo r888's next
Ive heard the turbos can have boost dialed back by gear which would be nice...
550 rwhp, p1sc, meth/water inj, 6spd vert, 12 psi boost at 6000 rpm
Cooler air temps = more boost/ more power and less tire traction.
315 ish bfg drag radial 2's on the back (discontinued).
1st, sometimes 2nd kicks the back end out once rpms go past 5k.
I see all these '700 or 800 rwhp' stock bottom end builds.
How do you maintain traction?
What is the point of having 800 rwhp if you cant hook it to the ground?
Do you just pedal it around town, being careful not to open it up (unless you are on the highway in 4th gear or above) ?
And then put some real slicks on it for the track and hook / run 9s on the weekend (but be otherwise handicapped on the street).
With me being at 'entry level' boosted hp levels, i am dying to know How do you guys do it?
Is there some magical tire that hooks (and is somewhat streetable)? Im thinkin of trying toyo r888's next
Ive heard the turbos can have boost dialed back by gear which would be nice...
for sure with turbos advanced boost by speed and traction control is possible and makes the big hp and torq make much more sense as you can ramp the power up steeply above 60 where traction in the higher gears is a bit easier to come by.
for sure fresh rubber makes a huge difference. I have some nice hoosier drag radials but even after sitting for a couple of years they get hard even before they wear out. the softer compounds don't seem to last either way so go ahead and wear them out!
try some fresh tires and possibly freshen up the diff and go to a bit lower gear and I think you'll be very happy!
my car was spinning and all over the road, didn't enjoy it much, but after the change it's worlds better.
most people don't like the auto (and I'm one of them) but with the bigger HP and taller gears they just work.
12-01-2015, 06:09 PM
#32
BFG drag radials are quite possibly the worst DRs you can (could) buy. They didn't discontinue them because they were awesome, that's for sure.
Plus the rubber is probably done from being so old. Look into some R888 or Toyo TQ or something, you will get your traction back.
Plus the rubber is probably done from being so old. Look into some R888 or Toyo TQ or something, you will get your traction back.
Last edited by Milan; 12-01-2015 at 06:09 PM.
12-06-2015, 12:44 PM
#33
Racer
So it's 34° here and I just did a first gear pull. My car WON'T spin lol its great! That's 630 whp and 588tq in a 99 single turbo 6 speed car with an mn12 and 3:42 diff. Mickey thompson 295/50/16 et street ll
12-16-2015, 01:11 AM
#34
Melting Slicks
Also, to the OP, another good way to get that power to the ground is some good adjustable shocks (I love the Viking coilovers). Shocks setup correctly along with correct rubber and you have a winning solution. More sidewall is also always better with big HP..
12-16-2015, 01:39 AM
#35
Advanced
Can you take a picture what it looks like with that wheel and tire comb? Are there any other options that look good for a 16" wheel besides CCW and Bogarts?
12-17-2015, 01:36 PM
#37
Racer
12-17-2015, 04:20 PM
#38
Team Owner
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: cookeville tennessee
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Hi i want to see what you guys have done when you get into this dilemma...
550 rwhp, p1sc, meth/water inj, 6spd vert, 12 psi boost at 6000 rpm
Cooler air temps = more boost/ more power and less tire traction.
315 ish bfg drag radial 2's on the back (discontinued).
1st, sometimes 2nd kicks the back end out once rpms go past 5k.
I see all these '700 or 800 rwhp' stock bottom end builds.
How do you maintain traction?
What is the point of having 800 rwhp if you cant hook it to the ground?
Do you just pedal it around town, being careful not to open it up (unless you are on the highway in 4th gear or above) ?
And then put some real slicks on it for the track and hook / run 9s on the weekend (but be otherwise handicapped on the street).
With me being at 'entry level' boosted hp levels, i am dying to know How do you guys do it?
Is there some magical tire that hooks (and is somewhat streetable)? Im thinkin of trying toyo r888's next
Ive heard the turbos can have boost dialed back by gear which would be nice...
550 rwhp, p1sc, meth/water inj, 6spd vert, 12 psi boost at 6000 rpm
Cooler air temps = more boost/ more power and less tire traction.
315 ish bfg drag radial 2's on the back (discontinued).
1st, sometimes 2nd kicks the back end out once rpms go past 5k.
I see all these '700 or 800 rwhp' stock bottom end builds.
How do you maintain traction?
What is the point of having 800 rwhp if you cant hook it to the ground?
Do you just pedal it around town, being careful not to open it up (unless you are on the highway in 4th gear or above) ?
And then put some real slicks on it for the track and hook / run 9s on the weekend (but be otherwise handicapped on the street).
With me being at 'entry level' boosted hp levels, i am dying to know How do you guys do it?
Is there some magical tire that hooks (and is somewhat streetable)? Im thinkin of trying toyo r888's next
Ive heard the turbos can have boost dialed back by gear which would be nice...
I have been drag racing in the pass for over 30 years never had a car that wouldn't hook as bad as the vettes. But then again I have never had so much rwhp in a car than I did in my c5.almost 1200 rwhp in it. Per say on the street with 15 inch rears, 3 diff sets of DR rear tires I would brake lose 6 times out of 10. It just takes a ton of seat time in these cars.
12-17-2015, 04:22 PM
#39
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Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: cookeville tennessee
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12-20-2015, 06:28 PM
#40
Drifting
OP sounds like you need a new set of tires ...the c5 body is notorious for kicking the back o,,,ut a set of coilovers and bias drag tires helped me out alot with that issue ...