Tenderfoot

I don't want to start a pizzing contest, just would like some information for the vortech supercharger for a C5. Most folks here post about ATI kits (either A&A or ECS) or Magnacharger. Hardly anyone posts about Vortech. What would be the advantages or disadvantages of a Vortech based kit vs. an ATI based kit. I'm looking to build a fast street car with excellent daily driveability manners and reliability, not a drag strip monster. Somewhere in the 500RWHP would be great. My C5 is an A4 with a Yank SS3600 TC. I plan to keep my LS1 motor stock, but maybe can be talked into a mild blower cam. I don't want to change the stock hood, so Magnacharger is out. A few TT kits are out, but probably priced out of my budget. So, can we have a calm discussion about what is great/not so great about a vortech based kit vs. an ATI based kit. If you have installed one or the other kit, what made you choose it. What other options did you consider?

gmf

I am pretty sure Carroll Supercharging sells a very good Vortech kit. He just posted in here under "gaseous intercooling" a whitepaper about his S/C kit. Get a copy of it, its worth reading if your interested in vortech and his setup.

gmf

Here is that thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=950720

Tenderfoot

Thanks, I did get Greg's white paper. Actually that is what has prompted my question as I don't see many discussions about vortech in this section. Wanted to get some feedback from owners of vortech vs. ATI.

HurricaneZ

Dont get me wrong I love vortech, but....

They have their share of belt problems on the C5. And so does the Base ATI Kit

ECS or A&A have an awesome proven setup for about the same price

The A&A kit is easy to install

No tapping of the oil pan

Those are a few of the reasons I went with A&A and I couldn't be happier.

Tenderfoot

Vortech says that an advantage to using the engine oil is to help with cooling the supercharger unit and there is no separate oil change maintenance that needs to be performed (unlike ATI). Is tapping of the oil pan bad because it can be a source of an oil leak. Is there another potential problem with tapping the oil pan. Just trying to learn.

tici

If I had a Vette I would buy a positive displacement supercharger. Magnuson or so. You'll have the max torque from the low RPM and up, and not from 4000 as with a blower.
I have a Vortech just because F-Body's are too tight for other superchargers.
If money is tight... it's another discussion!

mdhmi

I'm sure the Vortech setup from Carroll is great, but, if you look at the cost you could get twin turbos..

I went with the ATI setup from ECS as I didn't want to replace my hood or drill my oil pan. Plus I figured I would be able to get better support with on the ATI platform as they are much more popular than the Vortech (at least in the CF C5 world).

Cheers,

Mark

SleepieAce

Vortech is a good company with a good product.

I didn't go with them for two main reasons. I didn't want to drill the oil pan and I didn't want to mess with water intercooling. I'd prefer to leave the oil pan intact just in case I decide to return the car to stock for selling (an unlikely possibility, but oh well). Also, I don't even know if it's possible but I'd rather not run the risk of a blown seal in the s/c doing anything more than frying the s/c. If it somehow contaminates the engine oil I could have big problems. Again, I don't even know if that's possible...someone can say if it's not. Just the idea was enough to dissuade me. The water intercooler is just one more thing to have to keep tabs on and the pump for it something else that can fail. Just my .02.

7LitreC5

I was one of the first to install the Vortech kit on my car. Would I do it again? Not even if it was free.

I spent $6+k on a supercharger kit that did not work properly from the very beginning. Mine had belt aligment issues and a chirping jackshaft. Vortech sent me different spacers, belts, and a new supercharger bracket. In the end it still didn't work right. I finally got sick and tired of being a beta tester for Vortech at my expense and removed the supercharger after about 18 months.

I am a big proponent of Vortech's head units and most of their kits seem to be fine. The C5 kit is the exception though. If you want to go with a Vortech kit I'd take a look at Carroll/Blowerworks or RMCR. They both use Vortech head units.

I am still staying with a Vortech head unit but am switching to the RMCR installation.

Tenderfoot

OK, let me phrase this another way. How would you compare the vortech head unit with an ATI D1 or P1 head unit. What are the pros/cons of each. From a complete kit perspective, I can go Carroll for the Vortech or ECS/A&A for the ATI.

hogurt

I suspect you will see very little difference. There were three things which convinced me to go with the ATI:

1. air-air intercooler is a better setup
2. didn't want to tap oil pan. I can remove the kit and go back to stock with NO problems.
3. Price

If I were making the decision now, I would add one more factor:

4. R&D - Andy and ECS have worked the bugs out of the original ATI system. It simply isn't worth the headache to re-develop all the work which has been done. The head units are probably very similar, but all the other stuff. . .I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.

Good luck, either way.

7LitreC5

An S-Trim Vortech flows less (on paper) than an ATI P1. A Vortech T-Trim flows the same as an ATI P1.

Another thing to consider is whether or not blower noise/whine is important to you. There are no quiet ATI head units. Vortech has SC head units that are quiet.

Many people make a big deal of tapping the oil pan for the oil drain on the Vortech. It is not a big deal at all and doesn't hurt a thing. If you ever wanted to return the car to srock all you have to do is put a 3/8" pipe plug in the oil pan where you drilled and tapped it.

Another setup to consider if you want to use a Vortech head unit is to take a look at the RMCR setup.

Tenderfoot

Thanks regarding the flow rates. Regarding blower noise, is there a significant difference in noise between the ATI P1 and D1 head units. Can you hear these units from inside the car while idling. How about during WOT. Can you hear it clearly while standing next to the car with it idling and the hood closed. Is the D1 worth the extra expense (I don't know how much extra it runs, but I assume its a few hundred more).

Couldn't agree more. Don't want to be a guinea pig either. I will go with a tried and true kit.

jak112460

I have a Vortech on my 427. At 10.5 psi I have zero belt problems. At 13+ I had a belt actuall tear in half. If you want a great setup for a mostly stock engine then I think the Vortech is great. If you are going to go big cube and do a lot of toying around with boost then the ATI from A&A is probably the best. The nice thing about the Vortech is it's water to air intercooler and short discharge tubing. Both have problems with belt slip at higher boost level. My bone stock, no headers, LS6, made 519 rear wheel horsepower with a nicely tuned Voretch setup. I had no belt alignment issues at all.

7LitreC5

A friend of mine has an ATI. Not only can you hear it at idle but I can hear it when he is driving behind me and can hear it from about 120 feet away when he is approaching my house. He has a P1.

The thing about the Vortech kit is that it works perfectly for some people and not for other people. There are 5 or 6 of us one the forum that have had peoblems with ours. There are others that have nothing but good to say about theirs.

Tenderfoot

I need to take a ride down to ECS and give a listen to some of their ATI setups for noise. Sounds like its pretty loud from your description. Also, a little worried about the mixed bag results forum members have had with the vortech. Do you know if the 'problem children' were early adaptors of the vortech, maybe before the bugs were worked out. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, I don't want to be a guinea pig.

BTW I just noticed your mods. Nice. Do you have any problems hooking with the 3.73s and your performance mods.

tici

Noise: I have a V9 G-Trim SQ. I can hear it just a little from idle to about 1300 rpm.
Nothing to compare with the ATI (there is a nice-noisy video somewhere on this forum with a yellow Vette). The SQ really means sound quite, this because of its helical gears.
The drawback is that at low temperatures (and high oil viscosities) this kind of gears produce too much lateral force which can crash the seal.
Vortech suggests to don't start the car below 25F or to use some kind of engine heater.
The "nice" thing is that you get this information only with the guarantee document and it never appears in the advertising.

Our winter is pretty cold and we often have 15F or so. My belt is already off: no boost until spring time

mdhmi

Not all ProChargers are loud.. They vary greatly from unit to unit (thank-you ATI for consistency ) .. Mine is one of the quiet ones..

Cheers,

Mark

Loboost

Hello everyone im new to the forum in response to Tenderfoots question. I currently have a 02 Z06 with a forged motor,AFR 205s,224-229-114,shorty headers, currently 662 rwhp 592 tq with a Vortech Ttrim. Prior to forging motor and going with the Ttrim I drove my car for almost 2 years with zero belt issues with the stock Strim set to 8lbs. Except for the first month after the kit was installed I broke 2 belts which was a alignment issue I believe both ATI and Vortech make reliable kits when left close to stock or stock. However when you want to make big power I believe both kits have shortcomings even with any and all upgrades. I will be ordering my TTI stage X Monday tired of belt dust and worrying if belt is still in goodshape after a hard run (NASTY SUPRAS AND VIPERS HERE IN VEGAS) cant wait to get my TWIN BELTLESS BLOWERS.

Les