Front Brakes In Rear??
02-03-2008, 03:09 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Front Brakes In Rear??
Has anyone put the front rotors and caliper in the rear? Ive seen it done backwards so as to fit 15" wheels. Would be an interesting brake upgrade to do so.
02-03-2008, 03:17 PM
#2
Race Director
You could go with afterkmarket rotors but them you would need some custom brackets to mount the front calipers on the rear.
You would also probably need a bigger master cylinder.
02-03-2008, 08:13 PM
#4
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At one time, a forum member (Mean Green 2000) installed the front calipers on the rear of his car. Been a while back though and not sure if he is still a member of the forum. He lost use of the emergency brake by doing this conversion.
I've got a Word file where he documented the process but some of the pictures seem to be missing. I'd be glad to share it with you if you want it. Just PM me your e-mail address and be sure to mention the front caliper to rear file.
I've got a Word file where he documented the process but some of the pictures seem to be missing. I'd be glad to share it with you if you want it. Just PM me your e-mail address and be sure to mention the front caliper to rear file.
02-04-2008, 07:28 AM
#5
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15, '19
A little of topic but I just did a brake job on my car, 51K , and was surpised to see the back pads worn more than the front .
02-04-2008, 07:52 AM
#8
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St. Jude Donor '07
I'm currently doing this mod . I have been researching the the possible senerios to make this happen without any side effects.This is where I am right now.
In order to keep the ebrake I have gone to the C6 Z51 rear rotors. They are much larger than the stock C5 rears and larger still than the stock C5 fronts.This is fine considering that Baer as well as some of the other big companies offer a larger rear rotor on their up grades.
The rotor fit just fine .I did buy (2) sets of C6 front calipers , as I like the lettering layout and lettering size better than the C5. A set of the C6
Z51 rear calipers was also purchased in case my experiment did not work as plannedI would still have a large rotor in the rear.
When I went to fit the C6 front calipers on the Z51 rotors I noticed that they were not clearing the backing plate .The bolt mounts were much thicker than the standard rear calipers. No problem I fly cut them down to clear and proceed to install. They bolted up great.However I did see that the rotor was slightly off center in the bracket. I again remove some more material and they now sit dead center in the caliper braket. This is as far as I am. I will be finishng this project in the next few weeks. Just a side note.
1. I plan on using a low end pad that has much less bite than the front. I do believe that from what I have read on the Corvette's braking system and computer system ,that this will work.I know that Corvette Central has been selling a 2 piston rear up-grade for years now, and I have never heard a complaint.
In order to keep the ebrake I have gone to the C6 Z51 rear rotors. They are much larger than the stock C5 rears and larger still than the stock C5 fronts.This is fine considering that Baer as well as some of the other big companies offer a larger rear rotor on their up grades.
The rotor fit just fine .I did buy (2) sets of C6 front calipers , as I like the lettering layout and lettering size better than the C5. A set of the C6
Z51 rear calipers was also purchased in case my experiment did not work as plannedI would still have a large rotor in the rear.
When I went to fit the C6 front calipers on the Z51 rotors I noticed that they were not clearing the backing plate .The bolt mounts were much thicker than the standard rear calipers. No problem I fly cut them down to clear and proceed to install. They bolted up great.However I did see that the rotor was slightly off center in the bracket. I again remove some more material and they now sit dead center in the caliper braket. This is as far as I am. I will be finishng this project in the next few weeks. Just a side note.
1. I plan on using a low end pad that has much less bite than the front. I do believe that from what I have read on the Corvette's braking system and computer system ,that this will work.I know that Corvette Central has been selling a 2 piston rear up-grade for years now, and I have never heard a complaint.
Last edited by E.C.P; 02-04-2008 at 07:55 AM.
02-04-2008, 08:16 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Thats good to hear Nasty. Please keep me informed of how well this works. It might turn out to be the upgrade that beats the corvette tax somewhat.
02-04-2008, 08:22 AM
#10
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St. Jude Donor '08
I have read a few posts over in the autocross/ road racing section where people have done this.
There are a couple of technical hurdles to overcome with doing this mod. As previously stated most of your braking is done by the front brakes not the rears. Second, you want the fronts to lock up before the rears or you will lose control of the car. I believe you have to put in a new master cylinder because you will need more volume because of the brakes.
If I recall correctly, DRM (a forum sponsoring vendor) sells a bigger MC and also may have some knowledge about how to go about this mod.
I am not sure what you are trying to achieve with this mod but the limiting factor in braking is not the brakes themselves but the tires. You can't stop any faster than your tires adhesion limits.
There are a couple of technical hurdles to overcome with doing this mod. As previously stated most of your braking is done by the front brakes not the rears. Second, you want the fronts to lock up before the rears or you will lose control of the car. I believe you have to put in a new master cylinder because you will need more volume because of the brakes.
If I recall correctly, DRM (a forum sponsoring vendor) sells a bigger MC and also may have some knowledge about how to go about this mod.
I am not sure what you are trying to achieve with this mod but the limiting factor in braking is not the brakes themselves but the tires. You can't stop any faster than your tires adhesion limits.
02-04-2008, 09:16 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
For the most part, I am going for a new"look" . If I am able to achieve better braking along the way then thats defiantly a plus. However, if I am to loose braking, then I wont even attempt this.
As far as brake bias, cant you use an adjustable proportioning valve to control that?
As far as brake bias, cant you use an adjustable proportioning valve to control that?
02-04-2008, 09:51 AM
#12
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St. Jude Donor '08
For the most part, I am going for a new"look" . If I am able to achieve better braking along the way then thats defiantly a plus. However, if I am to loose braking, then I wont even attempt this.
As far as brake bias, cant you use an adjustable proportioning valve to control that?
As far as brake bias, cant you use an adjustable proportioning valve to control that?
If memory serves me correctly, the new Brake master from DRM will set you back $800.
02-04-2008, 08:05 PM
#13
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St. Jude Donor '07
I don't believe that a new p-valve or a master cylinder will be needed.
Let me explain.
Even though you will have a larger braking surface area,the bias has not changed.More pressure will still be applied up front . As for a larger master looking at the single large piston as complared to the two smaller pistons on the fronts, their is only a slight volume change. I pretty sure that GM did not put in a master that is at it's limit.I have not yet tried the pedal feel, but will soon enough.
I have not seen anyone attempt this mod in the same way that I'm doing it. So its a learning curve. This forum has always been an excellent resource for such experiments. Again it is important to note that I did buy a set of C6 Z51 factory size rear calipers & brackets in case their are any issues.Safety is a must
I have 19's in the rear and want to fill in the wheel barrels some more. I did want a beefer look in the rear caliper, and that's why I choose this route. My goals were more appearance driven that performance .
I do not see any reference from any of the performance brake makers as to the need for a new p-valve or larger master for their up-graded packages, some of which use new 4 & 6 piston calipers. As well if this were true, than when those who do the C6 Z06 brake swap, would they not need a larger master. After all the front and rear on the C6 Z06 are much larger than a stock C5.
I do beleive that this is an area that has not been well explored to the point where their is evidence to support one theroy or an other. So I guess I'm the beta testor on this one
Let me explain.
Even though you will have a larger braking surface area,the bias has not changed.More pressure will still be applied up front . As for a larger master looking at the single large piston as complared to the two smaller pistons on the fronts, their is only a slight volume change. I pretty sure that GM did not put in a master that is at it's limit.I have not yet tried the pedal feel, but will soon enough.
I have not seen anyone attempt this mod in the same way that I'm doing it. So its a learning curve. This forum has always been an excellent resource for such experiments. Again it is important to note that I did buy a set of C6 Z51 factory size rear calipers & brackets in case their are any issues.Safety is a must
I have 19's in the rear and want to fill in the wheel barrels some more. I did want a beefer look in the rear caliper, and that's why I choose this route. My goals were more appearance driven that performance .
I do not see any reference from any of the performance brake makers as to the need for a new p-valve or larger master for their up-graded packages, some of which use new 4 & 6 piston calipers. As well if this were true, than when those who do the C6 Z06 brake swap, would they not need a larger master. After all the front and rear on the C6 Z06 are much larger than a stock C5.
I do beleive that this is an area that has not been well explored to the point where their is evidence to support one theroy or an other. So I guess I'm the beta testor on this one
02-04-2008, 09:25 PM
#15
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i wouldn't want to give up my parking brake to do this mod.
02-04-2008, 10:08 PM
#16
Race Director
I don't believe that a new p-valve or a master cylinder will be needed.
Let me explain.
Even though you will have a larger braking surface area,the bias has not changed.More pressure will still be applied up front . As for a larger master looking at the single large piston as complared to the two smaller pistons on the fronts, their is only a slight volume change. I pretty sure that GM did not put in a master that is at it's limit.I have not yet tried the pedal feel, but will soon enough.
I have not seen anyone attempt this mod in the same way that I'm doing it. So its a learning curve. This forum has always been an excellent resource for such experiments. Again it is important to note that I did buy a set of C6 Z51 factory size rear calipers & brackets in case their are any issues.Safety is a must
I have 19's in the rear and want to fill in the wheel barrels some more. I did want a beefer look in the rear caliper, and that's why I choose this route. My goals were more appearance driven that performance .
I do not see any reference from any of the performance brake makers as to the need for a new p-valve or larger master for their up-graded packages, some of which use new 4 & 6 piston calipers. As well if this were true, than when those who do the C6 Z06 brake swap, would they not need a larger master. After all the front and rear on the C6 Z06 are much larger than a stock C5.
I do beleive that this is an area that has not been well explored to the point where their is evidence to support one theroy or an other. So I guess I'm the beta testor on this one
Let me explain.
Even though you will have a larger braking surface area,the bias has not changed.More pressure will still be applied up front . As for a larger master looking at the single large piston as complared to the two smaller pistons on the fronts, their is only a slight volume change. I pretty sure that GM did not put in a master that is at it's limit.I have not yet tried the pedal feel, but will soon enough.
I have not seen anyone attempt this mod in the same way that I'm doing it. So its a learning curve. This forum has always been an excellent resource for such experiments. Again it is important to note that I did buy a set of C6 Z51 factory size rear calipers & brackets in case their are any issues.Safety is a must
I have 19's in the rear and want to fill in the wheel barrels some more. I did want a beefer look in the rear caliper, and that's why I choose this route. My goals were more appearance driven that performance .
I do not see any reference from any of the performance brake makers as to the need for a new p-valve or larger master for their up-graded packages, some of which use new 4 & 6 piston calipers. As well if this were true, than when those who do the C6 Z06 brake swap, would they not need a larger master. After all the front and rear on the C6 Z06 are much larger than a stock C5.
I do beleive that this is an area that has not been well explored to the point where their is evidence to support one theroy or an other. So I guess I'm the beta testor on this one
Look at all of the big brake kits. Fronts calipers are always bigger than the rears.
02-04-2008, 10:23 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '07
Point I'm tring to make is that there is more fluid volume in say a C6 Z06 brake system than in a standard C5. So a larger master is not required.
As for the bias...If there were no proportioning from the factory than the system would be balanced front to rear, that is to say that Pasquels Law state's that "Pressure applied to fluid is equal through out"
So the only way to change that would be to control the pressure as well as the flow. You can have two pistons of the same size yet have one do more work or force by contoling the pressure applied.A factory valve must be set in the car some where.
02-04-2008, 11:19 PM
#18
Race Director
Calipers yes but rotors are larger in the rear.
Point I'm tring to make is that there is more fluid volume in say a C6 Z06 brake system than in a standard C5. So a larger master is not required.
As for the bias...If there were no proportioning from the factory than the system would be balanced front to rear, that is to say that Pasquels Law state's that "Pressure applied to fluid is equal through out"
So the only way to change that would be to control the pressure as well as the flow. You can have two pistons of the same size yet have one do more work or force by contoling the pressure applied.A factory valve must be set in the car some where.
Point I'm tring to make is that there is more fluid volume in say a C6 Z06 brake system than in a standard C5. So a larger master is not required.
As for the bias...If there were no proportioning from the factory than the system would be balanced front to rear, that is to say that Pasquels Law state's that "Pressure applied to fluid is equal through out"
So the only way to change that would be to control the pressure as well as the flow. You can have two pistons of the same size yet have one do more work or force by contoling the pressure applied.A factory valve must be set in the car some where.
Brake rotor size is only part of the equation. You need to take in to account the sweep area of the caliper and pad.
Also unless you are getting better tires (traction) none of this really matters as you aren't going to stop any better or faster.
It's just smarter to go with an engineered system than to try and make your own.
I run Wilwood's 14" BB Kit all the way around with much larger and better tires. (PS2's) 275/35/18's and 335/30/18's.
Breathless has done this to one of their C5's but they have an aftermarket one on the front.
