K-Spaz

After reading here in all the threads concerning top replacement, I had to wonder if there really wasn't something that required divine grace to do this correctly. I was astounded at how little information there is on the subject. I mean, you can search here and get tips on any other thing you could possibly do to a car, but this is like some skeleton in the closet and you have to be a member of an elite organization to get any help at all. I did not see a single thread where someone actually attempted to help with any of the pitfalls of this job.

Ok, I'll admit I had to test fit mine, take it back off the car and pull a few staples and redo some fitting. Nothing earth shattering. But, for all the information I received, there wasn't a bit of it worth a plug nickel. The service manual is as good as toilet paper for this job. Totally worthless. I bought mine from Corvette America and I'm supremely disappointed with both the fact that I was told it was in stock when in fact it was not. And, the fact that they offer no help whatsoever with the job. I'm pretty sure I'd have gotten more help from an Ebay seller. (and saved money). Then, I was directed to the top manufacturer who gave me complete misinformation about what glue to use. Thankfully, a hardware store employee mentioned that they thought a better alternative was to use another glue that they sold, and low and behold, yep, that's the way to go. Hard to imagine that someone who has never even looked at a convertible top could give better advise than the people who make them.

So, as I find out, this is at least the 3rd top on my car. It took me two days after work to get the thing finished (Only worked till 7:30 each night on it, so not very long. 6 hours perhaps). In total, I think I had less time on my very first one with no instructions, than some of the estimates I've read about here coming from so called professionals. Knowing what I know now, I'd say a fair price for an installation only is about $300 depending some on the market area. A local shop here quoted me less than that but they were busy and were going to take a while to get me in, I wasn't interested in waiting. I read here of people getting estimates into 4 digits (for labor, not the top) and I have to laugh out loud at that.

Tools I used.

• T15 Torx - hand and in cordless drill.
• #2 Phillips Screwdriver - hand and drill
• 3M Super 77 spray glue. Very easy to use, very easy to reposition. (Very easy to transfer to the top by mistake ). Actually, quite easy to clean up. Permatex waterless cleaner cleans it right up. I was amazed. Also, the little I got on the top came right off when dry using a small stainless steel wire brush.
• Huge table and sheet of cardboard to work upon.
• 3/8" Ratchet & 13/15mm sockets.
• 1/4" Ratchet & 8mm socket
• Large and small flat screwdrivers
• Staplegun from Harbor Freight
• SS T50 HD 1/4" staples.
• Utility Scissors
• Pop Rivet gun and 1/8" and 5/16" rivets.
• 1/8" drill for drilling rivets
• Needle nose pliers
• 3M Weatherstripping adhesive
• Soldering Iron (for burning holes for screws and such)
• Utility knife (very little use, like almost 0)
• 2" wide painters tape. Used this not for spraying the glue, but to keep my fingers from smearing glue onto the top when pulling it tight. It had to be pressed repeatedly to stick well, after which it was great. I could pull hard on the fabric and place it without getting spots on my new top.
• Piece of cardboard about 9x12" to mask when spraying (used as a disposable painters board)

What would I do differently if I had to do it over?

• Purchase the tack strips and install new ones of them. If you know your car has had a couple tops already, it's a good bet they are on their last legs and should be replaced. Mine had 2 little breaks but both were in somewhat important spots. I made do but I'd replace them next time.
• Purchase a new rear tonneau (sp) cover. That piece that has the elastic to hold it down when the top is up and the windows are down, I'd can that and get a new one.
• Plan better for stripped screw holes. The previous installer was a moron and stripped a number of screws. Broke a number of others. Thankfully, I have a store nearby with a good selection.
• Not attempt to turn the little plastic retainer that holds the tension cable. I broke one and had to make a replacement from aluminum. (much of my wasted time). The cables slip right over these and they don't need to move for removal or install.
• Look closer at the front bow cover and see that the top material is intended to be folded at exactly one place. Mine isn't folded there now and I'm not tearing it apart for that. But I think the install of that would have been easier (screws go in the holes easier) if I had not had the extra fold where there's no relief in the metal cover.
• Plan an extra few days in so I could send the headliner to the dry cleaners, or purchase a new one in advance. There's not much to it, but I bet it's expensive. There's 2 plastic strips used for attaching with screws to the #2 and #3 bows. Also a loop of material for an aluminum strip to be inserted. Some elastic bungee straps, and what appeared to be light seat belt material. I'm sure GM is quite proud of these items and charges accordingly.

After it was done, I did have my drivers window leak air a bit at the rear, any time above 60mph there's wind noise. So, I had to pull that weatherstrip and move the extrusion out to make better contact. No big deal. It's fixed and there's no leaks, tested with rain already!

All in all, this job was really quite simple. Mine fits perfectly, quite a bit better than the one I took off. My drivers window used to hit the top corner of the opening so I'd have to close the door while fitting that window in and then push it with my thigh to close it if I didn't want the window sticking out on that. No more!

Easily, 50% of my time was spent looking at things to make sure I wasn't missing something. That's all fine though cause mines on and its perfect. It has some wrinkles in it but I think those would need some foam inside the top to remove them. There's nothing I could do with tension to eliminate them. They are slight (and I mean slight) and probably will come out as the top shrinks a teeny bit in the coming weeks. Looking on the bright side, even if I had to tear the whole thing off and do it over, I could do it with the top I have, and it would work out fine. There's really no danger of messing this up, or at least I don't think there is. Alignment is a complete no brainer. I was worried about the window fitment cause some moron obviously couldn't get it right last time. This was a snap. Whoever did mine the last time was clearly careless.

Weatherstrips are easy to replace after the fact. So, any worry about them can be put to rest. If you need to replace them, the top would have to come back off, but it's just a couple screws and bolts and off it comes. The rear weatherstrip is bolted in, and the rear section of the window strip is riveted at the bottom. So the top has to come off to get them. Actually, the rear you might be able to get without now that I think about it.

In any case, the job isn't bad at all, and I'd recommend anyone who gets an estimate north of $400 to tell them to stick it and do it yourself. I know for a fact that I am more conscientious than most any person I've met at any service shop/dealer/organization. I'm betting many here are also, especially the ones that like to do their own work (as many do). They feel that way because they think their first effort will be better than some 'professionals' 100th try. Well, that's how I think. If you've got a Vert, go for it!

ps. The service manual has the replacement procedure under "Folding" top. How intuitive. Finally found it by leafing through pages, the index is worthless, just as with many other unique terms.

Patches

Damn - no pictures?

Nice write-up and congrats on have the cojones to figure it out on your own and for doing it yourself.

Kmcoldcars

One thing you can try to get rid of any small wrinkles is to rub the inside of the top where the wrinkles are and the area around them with a wet clean washcloth to get the inside material damp. Then set it in the hot sun.I have done upholstery on collector cars for the last 25 years.

Vetteman Jack

Good write up. Pics would have been nice, but still thanks for the info.

K-Spaz

Thanks. Necessity is the mother of invention...

Most of my pictures really don't show much. I saw that early on and then pretty much stopped taking pics. Initially I thought I'd use them for reassembly, but everything is so black it just doesn't photograph well. I'll include some I took and gamma correct them a bunch first to lighten them up. Otherwise I'd be describing them as: "Now this big black blob is the top! See this blob here, this is the part I'm talking about, but of course you can't see it cause the pic stinks!"
I'll edit this a few times to try and add some descriptions to them.
Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a shot. I left it out in a little rain again today and if anything I think the top is not as tight as it was day one. Maybe it'll shrink, I don't know. I guess I'll find out. I did a boat cover many years ago which shrunk after it was made, and learned then not to get overzealous about tightening at first. Might have been incorrect thinking this time, might work out fine. Time will tell.

Here's the pics for what they're worth. I hope this sorta show people what they're getting into. I didn't do pics of details, I think anyone interested in doing one of these will get the gist of it just from what I write. If someone has a specific question, ask away. I'll warn you up front though, I have no experience with this past what I got in the last two days. I'd welcome any more experienced opinions on anything they see. If what I did is wrong, perhaps it can be used as an example of what not to do.

Here's what I began with.


Any time I'm flying blind on a project, I take notes as to the steps I am doing so I have an idea of the proper sequence to get it back together, hence the tablet.

A soon as you get the front bow cover off, and remove a few staples, you then find the headliner is the biggest pain in your backside. I'd say it's as much trouble as the top install, but more forgiving. Funny enough, it is not mentioned at all in the service manual. And the install of that is done right along with the top, from start to finish. How GM didn't mention it is beyond me. Afaik, you cand do one without the other.

Here I show the staples that are under the rear bow weatherstrip (the one that sits on the tonneau. You can inspect this on your own car any time you have the top in the collapsed position. You could even peel back an area with a few staples removed and see for yourself the plastic strips you get to work with.

Here I had a few rivet heads that had popped off and I decided to replace them. This is the tonneau cover that attaches to the #5 bow (rearmost). This does not need to be removed for this job, but I had a rivet missing and one more ready to go missing.

This is a view from the rear of the top. That weatherstrip shown is actually bolted to the frame at each end using 2 embedded studs. Use an 8mm socket and remove the two nuts on that and then peel that whole thing off. Mine went back in easy as pie. I suppose a person could leave it in, but I took it out to make the reassembly easier. I pulled the staples with it in. Would have been less trouble if I'd removed it from the start.


This shows the upright portion of the window opening. They attach plastic reinforcing to the top at these areas but they don't have the holes opened up. I used a soldering iron to melt the top material and open those up. They have holes in the reinforcing so you can't miss the positioning, just not in the top material. This photo is of the old top when I was drilling out the 4 rivets which hold this part. The rivets go in the small slots. The screws, which hold the alum weatherstrip extrusion, will go through those larger openings. The extrusion covers this.


Heres the other side before drilling the rivets. Also, if you look at the #5 bow (the big one) you can see the rivets in that which hold the plastic tack strip on the underside. There's a rivet about every 4 inches. Same for the front bow. The plastic strip is what you staples will eventually stick into.


I can't believe this is the best pic I have of the tack strip, but, here's the front bow. Between the sorry red lines I added you can see it. It runs the with of the roof and it's about 1/8" by 1/2" That's what you staple to. I looks like theres nothing there in this pic but it's just the angle I took the pic at. It's a fairly substantial piece.


Here I was just test fitting the side reinforced pieces. You can see I has not yet burnt the holes in the top material where the screws and rivets go.

This is a shot of the new top after I stapled the front back on. The headliner is actually glued in place under this lip of top, I then glued the top to that and stapled. As stated above, you can't do one without the other. The metal cover goes on over these staples so nothing shows in the final product.


The new top out after a light rain. It's not drum tight today, but like I say I"m not sure if that will change in time. I find it hard to believe it will get more loose, I'd expect it to shrink some. Virtually all the areas that I think look "If'y" are caused by the top construction itself. It has a few areas where overlapping material thickens it in places and makes it not sit as evenly as I'd like. I can't really recall how the old one looked. All I ever saw was that damn back window that was falling out. If it did have other issues, the window took my attention away from them.





Looking here, there's two areas I"m not thrilled with on this top. At the rear of the window, it flares out at the top. That's built in and there's a rubber weatherstrip sewn into the top that causes this. It stops half way down the window (or more like 4" down). At the front, that same strip also interferes with the tension cable on each side. I dont' know if I'm supposed to cut these off, or what. It's a rubber tube, and there is no good way I could figure out to arrange it. I really don't even know what it's for. With it in there, it makes for an area that can never be tightened fully. It's not something I'm gonna loose sleep over, but after seeing the top on my Brother in Law's Jag, this looks like a cobbled up design. You can see the front of this tube weatherstrip in the photo above. The one with the detail of the front bow.


Another shot of that little flare. Sure looks like it's supposed to be there to me.


That's all I've got for now. Eyelids are gett'n heavy.

jrose7004

What Jack said.

MSG C5

Nice job and write-up! Is your new top a GM OEM top or aftermarket?

K-Spaz

Aftermarket. I wasn't even aware GM had an OEM one, and would not have bothered to ask the price if I had.

MSG C5

I'm looking ahead to 2014 when my car will be 10 years old and may bite the bullet for a new soft top at that time. GM still offers replacements, however I've read great things about Robbins Tops as well. They can customize to any color, however I will probably stick with another black replacement.

memmer

I can tell you first hand that the Robbins tops are first class.They are used on the high dime cars such as Ferrari,Lotus and a number of other like cars.Mine is black and I love it on my white Vette.Just saying.PS you did a nice install there and a nice write up.Thank You
Fred

62corvette

Two years ago I picked up an entire GM NOS top assembly in the GM box from eBay. Had to go 120 miles to get it,but at $400, I couldnt pass it up. My 2001 with 151k still has the original top in excellent shape. (garage kept). Buying the whole assembly, I figured, would be the easy way!

bthollow

K-Spaz: Nice tutorial, pictorial and commentary. I, too, had the beginning to fall out rear window syndrome and was able to fix it with Rhino glue. Based on your post, whenever I do need to replace the top I think I'll give it a go. Time is one thing I'm not lacking at this stage in my life and my patience has, remarkably, increased with age. Imagine that! Thanks again for a nice DIY write up.

K-Spaz

I would have tried to glue mine too, even bought the suction cup gizmos for the job. But the previous owner had done some cobbled up work on the window and used a glue that never set up. It was gummy and sticky, so of course there's no way new glue was going to stick. They also had used a glue that had a yellow tint to it (real nice on a black top) so around the edges of the window, it looked like a mickey mouse rigg'n. There were even some zip ties used to hold the fabric in place which I had not seen previously. They're visible in the first few shots above. With an owner who would do things like that, is it any wonder I've had issues with this car.

@62corvette. If I had seen a top assembly for 4 bills, I'd have bought it even if I didn't need one.
@Memmer, this one was expensive enough for me!
@MSG C5. I also considered a beige one, I've got a beige interior. (Lt tan, whatever they call it). I took a black one off and for no good reason, put a black one back on. Its universal...

bthollow

K-Spaz: Regarding the flaring issue, I looked at my top and noticed the same thing on both sides--presume it's meant to be that way and must have been designed as such for a specific reason. What that reason might be is a mystery to me. Again--nice job!

1999corvettels1

My car still has the factory top, and it has those flares as well, of course the top needs to be replaced as the folding areas have small cracks in them. Maybe I will try doing it myself now I have seen another person do it on their own!

K-Spaz

Well thanks guys, that makes me feel better that your cars have that flare also. I made a point to photograph that in case it was wrong, but other than cutting that weatherstrip out of the top, I could see no way to make it go away. The more I think about it, that 'weatherstrip' as I'm calling it, might just serve to reduce wind noise. I want to say it is 'tucked' under that tension cable, but tucked isn't really the right word. More like it's jammed in there. Also, at the rear where that thing extends down the 4" or so, there is also another piece sewn in that accompanies that. It also is ~ 4" tall, like a triangle, and it has a hard plastic strip sewn in too. It "tucks" in and hides that tension cable I guess. Seems overkill to me since I never look back in that hole anyway. It's not like you can get your head in to see there even if you wanted to. I tried many different ways to arrange all these parts and from what you're telling me, it's right. Well, it doesn't leak, and there's very minimal wind noise. Not none, but, pretty close to silent.

If a guy had some sheets of soft 3/4" open cell foam, I think it would make a nice mod to spray glue some of that into the top and make it give the top a more solid look. It would have to push on the headliner to offer any support to the canvas, but, I bet it would look nicer. I might have to try that some time. It could be tested without glue, and without disassembly, because you can get between the top and headliner when the top is in the up & collapsed position. I keep thinking about my brother in laws XKR top. It is so smooth, it doesn't even look like a convertible. There is no evidence of the bows showing in the top. I think this foam idea would mimic that on the Vette. Depends on the headliner on weather or not it would work...

My top was dry and sitting in the sun today, and it does shrink tighter when dry. I'm feeling better about that now too.

SSTG

Another shot of that little flare. Sure looks like it's supposed to be there to me.


That's all I've got for now. Eyelids are gett'n heavy.[/QUOTE]

I wonder if they did that so the window does not rub in that area. I just picked up a 1999 Vert and the drivers window has rubbed the cord in that exact area and I have to see if it can be repaired? Hence the reason I found this thread.

nnicholas

Great job and great right up. Just ordered my top yesterday. This is information I was looking for. Just like you said earlier, there is no information on installation. As much as I want to tackle this, I think a professional may be the better decision in my situation. But if I decide to try it your info is the best I have seen. Thank you for taking the time to document your installation. What a great forum.

RonR80

Very good info my 04 the top is still perfect, but in time I'll be looking at these instructions, thanks and good job

bj1k

I was told that the OEM tops and the ones sold by GM are made by Robbins and I would believe it because I've had experience with Robbins and although pricey , they are the best.