★★★★★★★★★ ► CHUCK CoW NOW REPAIRS 1997 - 2000 DISCONTINUED C5 ABS UNITS ◄ ★★★★★★★★★
12-23-2014, 12:35 PM
#101
Race Director
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Bluffton SC via Canton Oh
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I posted this before but worth repeating. Even though I dont have my 2000 C5 anymore I did a lot of footwork for 2 years trying figure out a solution.
One think I did was go to Carilise and take to the GM boys. They claim that the original designs where lost either physically or legally or both in the Delco backrupcy and legally the GM bankrupcy did not help. I don't know this is what one guy told me. In addition he said that federal law requires manufacters to retain the parts for 10 model years. He went on to say because this is a low volume car only an after market source would someday reverse enginer it if there is a demand.
I loved my C5 so much that I was thinking I'd be willing to drop a grand or maybe two for a confident solution but when I got concerns about other electonic gremlin, steering sensors and the like.......... I traded it off.
But I know where she is and who knows? Maybe someday it will be back home.
One think I did was go to Carilise and take to the GM boys. They claim that the original designs where lost either physically or legally or both in the Delco backrupcy and legally the GM bankrupcy did not help. I don't know this is what one guy told me. In addition he said that federal law requires manufacters to retain the parts for 10 model years. He went on to say because this is a low volume car only an after market source would someday reverse enginer it if there is a demand.
I loved my C5 so much that I was thinking I'd be willing to drop a grand or maybe two for a confident solution but when I got concerns about other electonic gremlin, steering sensors and the like.......... I traded it off.
But I know where she is and who knows? Maybe someday it will be back home.
02-04-2015, 12:04 PM
#102
Burning Brakes
Reviving an old thread, I'm adding my .02.
A friend has just sent me his module. I took it apart, but didn't find a bad relay. In fact, removing the relay covers, the contacts are perfect and clean.
He had the code, plus the battery would run down within days.
So, I found a leaky TO-220 diode, the one soldered onto the PC board with the retaining clip. I could not identify the diode, so I put a "shotgun" 40 amp diode in its place.
Have not tested it, but I believe this will solve his problem. I'll post once it's installed. And, I'll post some images once I get to them. Hope this helps.
John
Caspers Electronics Inc.
A friend has just sent me his module. I took it apart, but didn't find a bad relay. In fact, removing the relay covers, the contacts are perfect and clean.
He had the code, plus the battery would run down within days.
So, I found a leaky TO-220 diode, the one soldered onto the PC board with the retaining clip. I could not identify the diode, so I put a "shotgun" 40 amp diode in its place.
Have not tested it, but I believe this will solve his problem. I'll post once it's installed. And, I'll post some images once I get to them. Hope this helps.
John
Caspers Electronics Inc.
02-04-2015, 01:34 PM
#103
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Results are in; the unit works properly with the replacement part. Bottom line: These modules can be repaired if the problem is related to this green PC board. If the problem goes further into the internal logic, I seriously doubt that circuit can be fixed.
Fortunately, the most vulnerable components are on the repairable board. That said, if you have a defective motor, you would need to replace it regardless. The new components would fair repeatedly until the motor is replaced.
Fortunately, the most vulnerable components are on the repairable board. That said, if you have a defective motor, you would need to replace it regardless. The new components would fair repeatedly until the motor is replaced.
Thanks for the write up! 
Great info 
02-09-2015, 01:18 AM
#104
Here's what I found. BTW, de-soldering the pads is a lengthy procedure. It requires a lot of heat and patience as well.
I removed the relays, removed the covers to them, inspected the contacts. No problem there. Then, I probed around and found a mostly-shorted diode. Replaced it with a very old 24 amp 400 v. tab-mounted diode (I believe it's an overkill as it uses a power diode found in alternator "trio" bridges). Anyway, being tested this week, and if it fixes the problem, waa-laa. If the problem goes deeper, i.e. logic circuitry buried in the gel, then the module is non-repairable. I did check each "whisker" wire inside the gel using a dental pick, to see if possibly one of them came loose in its weld to the pad, but they all checked good. So, it all points to that diode.
I have done repairs on the C6 ABS in the past, where I needed to make a fixture to break the module open. Every one of them had bad solder joints due to vibration knocking the large capacitors off the board. Very easy fix once you get the unit opened. They're sloppily filled with gel also, but the voids in the gel create a problem with vibration.
But I digress. Here are the pictures of the C5 part.
I removed the relays, removed the covers to them, inspected the contacts. No problem there. Then, I probed around and found a mostly-shorted diode. Replaced it with a very old 24 amp 400 v. tab-mounted diode (I believe it's an overkill as it uses a power diode found in alternator "trio" bridges). Anyway, being tested this week, and if it fixes the problem, waa-laa. If the problem goes deeper, i.e. logic circuitry buried in the gel, then the module is non-repairable. I did check each "whisker" wire inside the gel using a dental pick, to see if possibly one of them came loose in its weld to the pad, but they all checked good. So, it all points to that diode.
I have done repairs on the C6 ABS in the past, where I needed to make a fixture to break the module open. Every one of them had bad solder joints due to vibration knocking the large capacitors off the board. Very easy fix once you get the unit opened. They're sloppily filled with gel also, but the voids in the gel create a problem with vibration.
But I digress. Here are the pictures of the C5 part.
I find those two circuit boards quite intriguing, especially the blue one. (What is it, 2 or 3 inches wide by 2 or 3 inches long?) I'm thinking that if those boards could be cloned and these new boards were used to replace the old boards, the EBCM may function normally again. That is, why replace the entire unit if all that is malfunctioning is the board or boards?
The reason that I'm writing this post is that I know an entrepreneur workaholic who designs custom circuits and circuit boards for stereo amplifiers. He is a second-generation Canadian of Chinese ethnic origin, who speaks perfect English and Chinese and communicates directly with his Chinese contractors in China who manufacture the circuit boards and other parts for his amplifiers. It is possible that he or one of his contractors might know of a Chinese company who manufactures, or would be capable of manufacturing, a circuit board similar to the blue one shown in the above photo.
Does anyone have a close-up, high-resolution photo of the blue board that shows the components, and maybe the lettering on them? (What are the approximate dimensions (LxW) of that board?) I could send the photo and the dimensions to him and ask him if he knows of a company that would be capable of cloning it (if the drawings and specifications of the board were eventually provided, of course).
If I find out that there is indeed a Chinese company that might be capable of manufacturing the board, I could post a question in the "ask Tadge" forum that asks if that specific board's design and specifications are still available.
If they are available, then this could be taken further by perhaps sending the company a board, or the metal protion of the EBCM that contains the board, together with the specifications, to find out with certainty if they can produce it and, if so, at what cost for what quantity.
These vehicles are quite possibly going to be around for many, many more years and it would be nice for their present and future owners if their vehicle had functioning ABS.
Of course if the design drawings/files and specifications are not available, that really ends any chance of cloning the board(s) and, as time goes on, fewer and fewer of these cars will have functioning ABS, which is really a pity.
Last edited by Tony1M; 02-09-2015 at 01:20 AM.
02-10-2015, 02:17 AM
#105
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
No, I did not forget about you guys or this thread.....
No, I did not forget about you guys or this thread.....
I've been watching... Good work to the guys that had success fixing them.
I am NO ELECTRICAL GENIUS and it looks like a few of you are better equipped to do this than me.
Like I said from the first post....
SOME of them can be fixed..... But not all.
A forum member PM'd me today about repairing these things and I took the liberty of
re-posting the reply I made to him so that we can help eliminate the false hopes and
also encourage those that "jumped the gun" and got "DEAD ABS SYNDROME" for no reason.
Here is my reply to him.... Please take it for what it's worth.
Chuck CoW
Hey there... While I have only my own experiences to go by, I think the failures are 40% Blue Board and 40% green board and 20% improper diagnostics and both boards are ok.
Knowing the problem exists, every week (if not every day) someone offers to send in their ABS for repair.... Too often the problems are undiagnosed "simple" problems....
40% of the time it's one of the two relays..... and (I believe) that when the green board has problems, the blue board follows south.
The blue board is not something that can be cloned, and if the financial incentive and market was there to clone the hardware, I imagine that the logic aspect
of it or "CODE" would be an even futher stretch. Testing and development would kill a project like that in a flash.
While the Chinese have demonstrated the ability to clone EVERYTHING... Including our TECH II
The potential market is "just not there".
Not withstanding, the liability/responsibility in of itself one would carry by presenting a "clone" of such a part to market would scare most away from the task.....
Sad to say, I think GM is just not interested.... I really doubt the docs/blueprints are lost forever.... NOBODY is that careless....
And really, why would they care..... If you give up your C5..... The next step is a C6. Make sense?
What I can and have said many times before.... TESTING....RE-TESTING.....AND MORE TESTING.
BEFORE you deem your C5 ABS unit no good.
Just an ABS or traction control light should not make your crazy. Steering angle sensor (no longer manufactured) and lots of other stupid, simple
problems plague that system which CAN be fixed without replacing the EBCM.
While I'm no electronics whiz, I did manage to remove the green board and make the repairs. (lucky)
Even for a pro with the right equipment, it's a scumbag of a job.... That device was made disposable and they DID NOT design it to last 100 years.
For everyone reading this thread.... I know you're bummed and for some, black tape is your best fix.
BUT, more than a good bunch of you NEED to go back and find someone to PROPERLY diagnose your vehicle...
I am your friend, and I want you to keep your C5.
Take my advice...for what it's worth.
Chuck CoW
I've been watching... Good work to the guys that had success fixing them.
I am NO ELECTRICAL GENIUS and it looks like a few of you are better equipped to do this than me.
Like I said from the first post....
SOME of them can be fixed..... But not all.
A forum member PM'd me today about repairing these things and I took the liberty of
re-posting the reply I made to him so that we can help eliminate the false hopes and
also encourage those that "jumped the gun" and got "DEAD ABS SYNDROME" for no reason.
Here is my reply to him.... Please take it for what it's worth.
Chuck CoW
Hey there... While I have only my own experiences to go by, I think the failures are 40% Blue Board and 40% green board and 20% improper diagnostics and both boards are ok.
Knowing the problem exists, every week (if not every day) someone offers to send in their ABS for repair.... Too often the problems are undiagnosed "simple" problems....
40% of the time it's one of the two relays..... and (I believe) that when the green board has problems, the blue board follows south.
The blue board is not something that can be cloned, and if the financial incentive and market was there to clone the hardware, I imagine that the logic aspect
of it or "CODE" would be an even futher stretch. Testing and development would kill a project like that in a flash.
While the Chinese have demonstrated the ability to clone EVERYTHING... Including our TECH II
The potential market is "just not there".Not withstanding, the liability/responsibility in of itself one would carry by presenting a "clone" of such a part to market would scare most away from the task.....
Sad to say, I think GM is just not interested.... I really doubt the docs/blueprints are lost forever.... NOBODY is that careless....
And really, why would they care..... If you give up your C5..... The next step is a C6. Make sense?
What I can and have said many times before.... TESTING....RE-TESTING.....AND MORE TESTING.
BEFORE you deem your C5 ABS unit no good.
Just an ABS or traction control light should not make your crazy. Steering angle sensor (no longer manufactured) and lots of other stupid, simple
problems plague that system which CAN be fixed without replacing the EBCM.
While I'm no electronics whiz, I did manage to remove the green board and make the repairs. (lucky)
Even for a pro with the right equipment, it's a scumbag of a job.... That device was made disposable and they DID NOT design it to last 100 years.
For everyone reading this thread.... I know you're bummed and for some, black tape is your best fix.
BUT, more than a good bunch of you NEED to go back and find someone to PROPERLY diagnose your vehicle...
I am your friend, and I want you to keep your C5.
Take my advice...for what it's worth.
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; 02-10-2015 at 02:21 AM.
02-13-2015, 01:05 PM
#106
Melting Slicks
I wouldn't care much if it was just the lights that came on my dash now and then. But it's the change in my steering that bothers me. When my TC/ABS lights come on, my steering feel changes. It's as if I lose my power steering, steering assist... whatever my car has.
02-13-2015, 02:38 PM
#107
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: orlando florida
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St. Jude Donor '15
My 2000 has the c1255 code. I look at it with a snapon scanner and I can see all outputs.all tire speed sensors, steering angle and volt outputs, etc. So wondering what the internal malfunction is.
02-14-2015, 12:55 PM
#108
Instructor
Member Since: Jun 2008
Location: Groton MA
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"Sad to say, I think GM is just not interested.... I really doubt the docs/blueprints are lost forever.... NOBODY is that careless....
And really, why would they care..... If you give up your C5..... The next step is a C6. Make sense?"
This from Chuck CoW is exactly right. If you read the "Ask Tadge" thread about aftermarket C5 parts he basically says that GM moved past the C5 a while ago and has no interest in looking at any issues we have. Their job is selling new cars. My interpretation of his response was "sucks to be you".
The only chance we have for repairs on parts like this is from enterprising individuals like the ones on this thread.
And really, why would they care..... If you give up your C5..... The next step is a C6. Make sense?"
This from Chuck CoW is exactly right. If you read the "Ask Tadge" thread about aftermarket C5 parts he basically says that GM moved past the C5 a while ago and has no interest in looking at any issues we have. Their job is selling new cars. My interpretation of his response was "sucks to be you".
The only chance we have for repairs on parts like this is from enterprising individuals like the ones on this thread.
02-14-2015, 06:54 PM
#110
Former Vendor
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Location: Ossining New York
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
"Sad to say, I think GM is just not interested.... I really doubt the docs/blueprints are lost forever.... NOBODY is that careless....
And really, why would they care..... If you give up your C5..... The next step is a C6. Make sense?"
This from Chuck CoW is exactly right. If you read the "Ask Tadge" thread about aftermarket C5 parts he basically says that GM moved past the C5 a while
ago and has no interest in looking at any issues we have. Their job is selling new cars. My interpretation of his response was "sucks to be you".
The only chance we have for repairs on parts like this is from enterprising individuals like the ones on this thread.
And really, why would they care..... If you give up your C5..... The next step is a C6. Make sense?"
This from Chuck CoW is exactly right. If you read the "Ask Tadge" thread about aftermarket C5 parts he basically says that GM moved past the C5 a while
ago and has no interest in looking at any issues we have. Their job is selling new cars. My interpretation of his response was "sucks to be you".
The only chance we have for repairs on parts like this is from enterprising individuals like the ones on this thread.
Not withstanding my nutty schedule, I have not completely given up on this. I will never be able to repair most of those dead boards, but leaving it as
simple as that..... I've got a few ideas I'm tossing around. It's just going to have to wait till the next "ABS C5" comes into my shop and I've got time
to work on it.
This can go a few different ways and I'll be sure to post any successes I have here.
Cross your fingers!
Chuck CoW
02-28-2015, 11:59 AM
#112
Heel & Toe
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I am a Tier-1 supplier to GM for electronic items, and can tell you GM is not into the engineering of many electronics, but rather leans on 3rd. party suppliers and engineering.
Cloning the blue board would not be practical or cost-effective as far as I can see. There are several proprietary ICs on the board, all of which belong to GM engineering or its partners - and getting that entity to release anything proprietary is virtually impossible.
However, reverse-engineering would be the next alternative. That said, the costs would be staggering, considering the aluminum casting and specially designed connectors. Much better and more economical to repair the defective product.
I suppose the question is, where is the fault on this module? My best guess is that the green board is where the biggest percentage of failure resides. The blue board is well-sealed and shock protected, and buffered from electrical spikes and potential failure.
So, if you're going to clone anything, why not clone the green board? That would be quite simple - I do projects like that all the time. So, there it is...someone might want to step up on this one.
Cloning the blue board would not be practical or cost-effective as far as I can see. There are several proprietary ICs on the board, all of which belong to GM engineering or its partners - and getting that entity to release anything proprietary is virtually impossible.
However, reverse-engineering would be the next alternative. That said, the costs would be staggering, considering the aluminum casting and specially designed connectors. Much better and more economical to repair the defective product.
I suppose the question is, where is the fault on this module? My best guess is that the green board is where the biggest percentage of failure resides. The blue board is well-sealed and shock protected, and buffered from electrical spikes and potential failure.
So, if you're going to clone anything, why not clone the green board? That would be quite simple - I do projects like that all the time. So, there it is...someone might want to step up on this one.
06-02-2015, 10:06 AM
#113
Team Owner
I am a Tier-1 supplier to GM for electronic items, and can tell you GM is not into the engineering of many electronics, but rather leans on 3rd. party suppliers and engineering.
Cloning the blue board would not be practical or cost-effective as far as I can see. There are several proprietary ICs on the board, all of which belong to GM engineering or its partners - and getting that entity to release anything proprietary is virtually impossible.
However, reverse-engineering would be the next alternative. That said, the costs would be staggering, considering the aluminum casting and specially designed connectors. Much better and more economical to repair the defective product.
I suppose the question is, where is the fault on this module? My best guess is that the green board is where the biggest percentage of failure resides. The blue board is well-sealed and shock protected, and buffered from electrical spikes and potential failure.
So, if you're going to clone anything, why not clone the green board? That would be quite simple - I do projects like that all the time. So, there it is...someone might want to step up on this one.
Cloning the blue board would not be practical or cost-effective as far as I can see. There are several proprietary ICs on the board, all of which belong to GM engineering or its partners - and getting that entity to release anything proprietary is virtually impossible.
However, reverse-engineering would be the next alternative. That said, the costs would be staggering, considering the aluminum casting and specially designed connectors. Much better and more economical to repair the defective product.
I suppose the question is, where is the fault on this module? My best guess is that the green board is where the biggest percentage of failure resides. The blue board is well-sealed and shock protected, and buffered from electrical spikes and potential failure.
So, if you're going to clone anything, why not clone the green board? That would be quite simple - I do projects like that all the time. So, there it is...someone might want to step up on this one.
Thanks,Matt
08-18-2015, 02:33 PM
#115
Heel & Toe
I'm pulling up c1233h h c and c1247 h c and I have tried pulling up a fix for this. I have a 99 c5 if that helps. I've checked all the grounds that I could find in the car and still nothing. Any and all help will be appreciated.