a_ahmed

Wanting feedback, getting a C5 as civil summer/track car with mods


Picking a car

I originally wanted to get into a C6 Z06 this summer, but plans changed as I decided to back to school briefly. So it looks like my plan will be for next summer. However while a C6 Z06 is a fantastic fast stock car it is still very expensive to get into. I also considered a bmw 335i coupe which recently my father got for 20k CAD with 45k kilometers (can be had for under 20k with higher kilometers)

335i is a great car stock, sub 5seconds to 60 and pulls hard, descent handling but too soft stock (stock sport suspension), but it's expensive to mod, heavy and with too many electronics, plus turbos, too many things to go wrong imho. It's very stable at high speeds which really had me love it, when you drive it slow or cruise 140km on the highway it's so damn quiet.

I've owned 8 cars over the years and my first and favorite has been my track prepped 240sx. Not your usual dorifto hella flush cheap garbage china ebay build, I spent a lot of money doing a proper build with actual race shocks, big brake kit, lightweight wide wheels, r comps, the works

A C5 makes a lot more sense to me because it's lighter, a true sports, reliable and takes abuse, tons of available mods, not as expensive as bmw mods or parts, not complicated/raw (a lot like my 240sx was no bs electronics). In fact C5 targa top looks a lot like my 240sx hatch did

C5 vs C5 Z06

So I am bent on a C5 for cost vs benefit and since I intend to mod it. Next got me debating C5 or C5 Z06. It appears the only real advantage of the Z06 is the M12 transmission which gives it better gearing stock and better 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than a C5. Since I intend to upgrade brakes, shocks (or go for coilovers), aftermarket bucket seats, steering wheel, wheels/tires... does it make sense to even get a Z06? Z06 seem to easily net 10k more than a standard C5!

Price

C5 vettes seem to be anywhere between 15k to 28k CAD. C5 Z06 seems to be anywhere between 25k to 34k CAD which is ridiculous...

In winter I've seen a few Z06 setups going for 21-25k CAD with low 100k or even sub 100k kilometers (not miles), maybe that's just a winter thing.

I know I'm opening a can of whoop *** by asking all these questions without even owning the car currently, but I like to do research and ask expert opinion (those with experience with the cars and similar mindset as myself) so understand where I'm coming from.

I always look at cost vs benefit, my budget/requirements before coming to conclusions.

A Vette makes a lot of sense for me and is like a bigger/grown up 240sx with tons of stock power that's easy to mod!

So here I am with a lot of questions and looking for feedback

Mod goals

What I like out of my cars is to have a race car for the road... my 240sx was over the top with a stripped out interior, I DONT want to go down this path this time. I want a car that I can sensibly drive that won't rape me every which way when I cruise around. That's what had me with the 335i, pretty amazing.

I will only get a 4 point cage at best rather than a full cage... stiffen her up and have mount points for a six point harness...

Suspension

I want maximum grip/traction and cornering improvements as that's my passion, driving fast through corners, but a lot of setups are garbage on the street. It's one thing to reduce roll, but traction/grip is all about road compliance!

I've been reading and found that GM spent a good amount of time developing the C5 Z06 '04 shocks, but there HAS to be better options out there that had as much time invested in development or more.

I've read positive stuff about PFADT. The Johnny O'Connell series shocks and swaybars combo. I would guess this is superior to the GM FE4 stock z06 shocks and swaybars? Marketed as fine tuned to work together, good for street and track for under 1000USD that's pretty sweet?

However PFADT sells coilovers too and other swaybars, but marketing something as matched that's hard to argue with it!

Having had Koni race shocks (not yellows...) I know what a good set of shocks with good valving can mean...! Combined with high spring rates performs better and is more compliant than so many crappy coilovers and shocks with crappy valving with much softer spring rates...

PFADT also offers a few different coilover setups. Got me confused with all that they have and how they differ from each other. How do these differ from the JOC setup. It seems from a marketing perspective they advertise so much the JOC setup being so well matched but what about their other setups?

Brakes

The other first thing I like to upgrade are brakes... Stock brakes on almost every car I've driven have sucked with any hard driving. Take the 335i my dad got recently, it gets up to 250kph in no time, but do a few 2xx to 100 stops and its fading... I'm sure much older vette brakes are even worse. Add in track duty... and it has to suck

I had a custom wilwood setup on my 240sx which worked out great, never faded no matter how many 2xx to 100 or full out stops I did.

For vettes it appears similar six piston setups exist with slightly larger GT vaned rotors.

Stop Tech also seems to be reviewed highly well as a good setup for street and track.

Wouldn't waste money on Brembo as they always sell as priced due to brand name in my opinion

Conclusion

Just trying to get feedback and opinions from C5 owners C5 vs C5 Z06? Suspension setups? Brake setups? Experiences? Cost vs value?

a_ahmed

Edited thread to be legible a bit better and edited title so it makes more sense but it seems the title is not updating

pavell

I had the same issue. I bought a c5 Frc for 10k usd less than a z06 with the similar low mileage.

Just put on c6 z06 shocks, c6 z51 sway bars, and I bought a used c5 rear z06 leaf spring on this forum.

All three were 900usd!

No brainer, don't buy the z06 if you intend to mod it.

a_ahmed

thanks for the feedback!

It would seem PFADT have a stage 2 Johnny O'Connel setup too:

http://www.stillen.com/products/comp...tage-2-111314/

rfn026

The basic rule of thumb is that you don't make a single modification until you've done a years worth of events. Friends of mine at Chin Motorsport feel that you should complete at least 20 events before you make the first modification.

Most people only run one or two events and never come back.

Also, people with the highly modified cars seem to be always working on them. They break a lot of parts out there on the track. Most of the aftermarket stuff simply won't hold up on the track.

You may be slow when you first start running track events. That will be your fault - not the car's fault. It takes time.



Richard Newton
Track Days 101

a_ahmed

This is such an old thread lol, already got one

I used to have a fully built track car so it's not like I only ran a few events It's good advice for newbs though

The vette is probably the easiest car I've EVER driven to date I don't get how people say it's such a dangerous car to drive. I love it.

The stock C5 brakes are complete garbage... inadequate for this kind of car. I've gone up to 290kph and the brakes are probably the weakest part on this whole car. Forget stopping from high speeds, repeated stops and you get fade and pads don't last long at all.

I went with ss lines, better fluid, HP+ pads. It's okay and still will fade... I was thinking of getting those extra ducting and what have you but the brakes themselves are just inadequate. I know there are people who will argue about the stock brakes but I am dissapointed. I've had better and therefore that sucks.

I also tried first the stop tech performance pads and it was a waste of time and money, slightly less braking power but burnt so fast... didn't last nearly as long and faded worse... so not worth the money.

I am going to have to get something better and probably will opt for wilwoods, just as i had on my old track car but maybe the newer aero instead of the SL6 I used to run.

Went with Coilovers and also totally disappointed, way too bouncy... going from higher end custom coilovers... my first time running off the shelf coilovers... I built my own for my track car...

Also hard to adjust due to the design of the vette. Very dumb to place adjuster on top... I wish I went with the LG coilovers...

I mean the swaybars upgrades (steinjagger metal endlinks and thicker swaybars) was totally worth it, and going from leaf springs to coilovers the car actually rides better and corners flatter... but still dissapointing....

Now that I need to do engine work and have other family plans this year, all of this will have to wait.. I will probably sell these and get LG coilovers.

RSbeast

Which coilovers didn't you like? PFADT?

a_ahmed

HSD, which are same as Stance.

RSbeast

Interesting to know - they were on my list

jim993

Here are some more opinions.


https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-learned.html

Scylla

I've had a similar experience. My first car was a miata, so I got to know a lot of import car people, who gave me the impression getting into a vette would be terrifying. The power trains you to drive more technically, but I've always enjoyed technical driving, so it's a fantastic platform for my tastes.

Now as far as the coilovers go, what are your spring rates like? A lot of your issues might be relatively simple to tune out, if you're okay with wrenching on your car, which based on this thread, you probably are. Retailers can be extremely unhelpful about this sort of thing, by claiming that they have "sway bar upgrades" for example. Your ideal sway depends on your setup and how you want the car to handle, there are no arbitrary upgrades.

Gordy M

The Hawk HP+ pads are good for autocrossing but for the track you should be running Hawk DTC 70/60 combo. While they require some heat to work effectively on the street, they will not fade like the HP+ at high speeds. Going to larger breaks you should check with Essex Parts Service, they carry the AP brakes and performance rotors. It will also require some large wheels.

Scylla

That would be extremely expensive, but effective. I'm not sure I'd agree with the DTC-60's, unless this is a track only car. It's very easy to get into trouble using high temp pads on the street, one bad situation is all that's required. AP Racing makes great rotors and calipers, but jumping straight to the essex kit is expensive overkill.

The C5 weighs about 3300 pounds on average and its 325x32mm brake rotors are reasonable, but definitely not sufficient for performance driving. Eliminating brake fade would absolutely require a BBK, I just would suggest looking at options before jumping straight to the AP Racing kit. If the brake dust and squealing doesn't **** you off, the HP Plus pads are pretty fantastic in terms of their aggressiveness and stopping power, while preserving driveability.

Getting into racing pads can be extremely dangerous on the street. I'm not going to add "If you don't know what you're doing." either, be careful if you start doing that. For some perspective, some of the most expensive and in many ways best autocross/street pads are Endless MX72. They're an adhesion based high end compound, which produces far less dust and noise than traditional friction based brake compounds, produce less wear on rotors and last longer. The problem is that adhesion based compounds burn off at high temperatures. So if you overheat an adhesion based pad, you will actually burn out the material in the compound which functions most aggressively at low speeds. So they're effectively ruined as soon as you overheat them, it's like a horse breaking a hoof, once you lose part of the compound, compensating for it by braking harder will rapidly deteriorate the rest.

That's just one example of why this sort of stuff is dangerous to test out on the street. People tend to think "race car" means good, but you don't want your car to handle like an F1. Every application requires its own approach, and F1 cars actually handle like a giant boat, because they need to be extremely stable at high speeds. That's why the drivers get paid so much, they're piloting a boat at hundreds of MPH. So if you need a BBK work out what's sufficient for your needs first, otherwise you may spend a lot of money on gear which doesn't suit your use/case.

rkdc5z06

Im driving 02 C5Z with minimal upgrade for track fun.
I have 17x10F 17x11R wheels with 315 Nt01 all around.
Hotchkis sways and DRM shocks
Lowered on stock bolts and corner balanced
25row oil cooler, Brake cooling ducts
Xp10F, Xp8R pads on stock calipers.

I'm enjoying my weekend car and all the fun memories it brings to me.