Opinions on a recent transaction
04-04-2005, 06:42 AM
#1
Racer
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Opinions on a recent transaction
First off I want to start off by saying that he has been very helpful in coming to a resolution to the issue, and in no way shape or form am I saying hes not a great forum member. He even shipped out the wheels and tires before I overnighted the money order to him so that I could get them on the car. Here is where a few issues arose.
The original for sale thread is located here: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1024395
I received the rims in great condition except on one rim, which an object had hit from the back and chipped off a corner of one of the spokes. All is well, I dont really mind. I put the rims on the car and the back rub terribly, but not initially, once you lower it back down the springs have to seat back down and thats when it started to hit, ended up rubbing paint off the two back fenders. Once again, this is nothing under his control WHATSOEVER. Ill take the blame for that.
The next issue was with the center caps. They just plain wont fit, the wheel hub sticks an inch and a 1/4 out past the center of the rim when they are on. So this leaves me with a rusty metal threaded rob sticking 1 inch and a 1/4 out of the 2 back rims.
I put the fronts on and when I turn they torn into the plastic fender well. Either the offset or the tire is just too big. Great, so now im left with 4 completely useless rims and out 1125 bucks. I worked with him to a come to a resolution and here is what he thought would be fair.
Also with the fronts, one side sticks out an inch and a half further than the otherside which leads me to believe the offsets arent the same on both rims.
"I have been thinking about getting you back to driveable and here's what I'd like to do. I want to make sure you're adequately compensated but I do stand behind my attempt to provide as much information I had about the set in the original description. Additionally the setup cost me 1450 new and I took a bath at 1000 selling it but knew that.
Rims new were 660 so to replace the two ones that don't fit I can offer you 330. I insured each rim/tire for $300 so if you file a damaged claim with UPS for the one rim you're up to 630.
I am unsure of UPS' policy whether they have to take the one tire/rim or all 4. If it's all 4, great then you're at 1200. I would push the issue with them that thre rims and tires do you no good at all.
If it's only the damaged rim then make sure the 275 tire size is on it and take off the tire pressure sensor.
The Nitto's will easily go for more that 300.
Tire sensors will go for 150 if you don't need them on your car or will use yours.
So here are the potential solutions:
1) UPS colllects all 4 rims and tires under the damage claim and you get 1200. I would take the sensors off now as you probably won't find out if they take 1 or all 4 until a day or two before they want to pick them up and you might not have time to dismount the sensors.
2) UPS collects the one damaged rim and 275 width tire minus the pressure sensor and you get 300 on the claim, you sell Nittos for 300 (prob more), sensors for 150, remaining 3 rims for est 200 (just to unload quickly on eBay) and I send you a check for 330 for a total of 1280 but with a little effort on both our parts.
Let's put scenario 1 into play and if we find out they only want the 1 rim/tire we'll execute scenario 2 and I will send you a check immed.
In either scenario you must file the damage claim with them. I would not tell them you've had them on the car and have driven it or they may refuse the claim altogether. You also must state that how you received the rims/tires with the 3 inches or greater of packing material I did place on the rim faces. If all works out you get back more than the 1000 you paid and can put that towards the fix or the body work."
I honestly didnt/dont know what a fair resolution would be. I tried getting UPS to pay for the damaged rim and they wont take responsibility for it since the damage came from the rear entrance of the rim. Unfortunately the one damaged rim is the one with the Nitto 555r tire on it. So id have to have it remounted with the other tire. Id have to sell 2 tires, if not all 4 ( i dont know if its the offset thats messed up or if its the tire itself is too wide.)
In reality im kinda just lost on what to do, Im almost 19, money doesnt grow on trees, i just want to get some rims on my car. If anyone is willing to, or wanting to swap rims with me id also be open to any offers.
So once again, He has been a great stand up seller, im just curious on what your guys' opinions are, thats why we have the forum right?
Thanks,
Brian
bsmall423@yahoo.com
The original for sale thread is located here: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1024395
I received the rims in great condition except on one rim, which an object had hit from the back and chipped off a corner of one of the spokes. All is well, I dont really mind. I put the rims on the car and the back rub terribly, but not initially, once you lower it back down the springs have to seat back down and thats when it started to hit, ended up rubbing paint off the two back fenders. Once again, this is nothing under his control WHATSOEVER. Ill take the blame for that.
The next issue was with the center caps. They just plain wont fit, the wheel hub sticks an inch and a 1/4 out past the center of the rim when they are on. So this leaves me with a rusty metal threaded rob sticking 1 inch and a 1/4 out of the 2 back rims.
I put the fronts on and when I turn they torn into the plastic fender well. Either the offset or the tire is just too big. Great, so now im left with 4 completely useless rims and out 1125 bucks. I worked with him to a come to a resolution and here is what he thought would be fair.
Also with the fronts, one side sticks out an inch and a half further than the otherside which leads me to believe the offsets arent the same on both rims.
"I have been thinking about getting you back to driveable and here's what I'd like to do. I want to make sure you're adequately compensated but I do stand behind my attempt to provide as much information I had about the set in the original description. Additionally the setup cost me 1450 new and I took a bath at 1000 selling it but knew that.
Rims new were 660 so to replace the two ones that don't fit I can offer you 330. I insured each rim/tire for $300 so if you file a damaged claim with UPS for the one rim you're up to 630.
I am unsure of UPS' policy whether they have to take the one tire/rim or all 4. If it's all 4, great then you're at 1200. I would push the issue with them that thre rims and tires do you no good at all.
If it's only the damaged rim then make sure the 275 tire size is on it and take off the tire pressure sensor.
The Nitto's will easily go for more that 300.
Tire sensors will go for 150 if you don't need them on your car or will use yours.
So here are the potential solutions:
1) UPS colllects all 4 rims and tires under the damage claim and you get 1200. I would take the sensors off now as you probably won't find out if they take 1 or all 4 until a day or two before they want to pick them up and you might not have time to dismount the sensors.
2) UPS collects the one damaged rim and 275 width tire minus the pressure sensor and you get 300 on the claim, you sell Nittos for 300 (prob more), sensors for 150, remaining 3 rims for est 200 (just to unload quickly on eBay) and I send you a check for 330 for a total of 1280 but with a little effort on both our parts.
Let's put scenario 1 into play and if we find out they only want the 1 rim/tire we'll execute scenario 2 and I will send you a check immed.
In either scenario you must file the damage claim with them. I would not tell them you've had them on the car and have driven it or they may refuse the claim altogether. You also must state that how you received the rims/tires with the 3 inches or greater of packing material I did place on the rim faces. If all works out you get back more than the 1000 you paid and can put that towards the fix or the body work."
I honestly didnt/dont know what a fair resolution would be. I tried getting UPS to pay for the damaged rim and they wont take responsibility for it since the damage came from the rear entrance of the rim. Unfortunately the one damaged rim is the one with the Nitto 555r tire on it. So id have to have it remounted with the other tire. Id have to sell 2 tires, if not all 4 ( i dont know if its the offset thats messed up or if its the tire itself is too wide.)
In reality im kinda just lost on what to do, Im almost 19, money doesnt grow on trees, i just want to get some rims on my car. If anyone is willing to, or wanting to swap rims with me id also be open to any offers.
So once again, He has been a great stand up seller, im just curious on what your guys' opinions are, thats why we have the forum right?
Thanks,
Brian
bsmall423@yahoo.com
04-04-2005, 10:29 AM
#3
Racer
Member Since: Jan 2005
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Shipper is responsible for contacting UPS and filing the claim, not you. If I had sold them to you and stated that they were in great shape I would file with UPS, see what they are going to do and then work out the return with you. From what I read this is not your issue.
04-04-2005, 10:38 AM
#4
Safety Car
I read both your thread and the thread posting the wheels/tires for sale you referenced. I wasn't able to link to the pics supplied in the for sale thread so I can't make a judgement on that. Here is what I feel about the transaction.
The seller stated exactly what the tires were and what the offsets of the wheels were. A 305/45/x18 tire in the rear is a BIG tire and I would have not considered them as tires to be used on my Corvette until I could verify they would fit without problems. The seller did state he thought they might be too large, so it would have been in your best interests to verify this.
The second item I see a problem with is the offset. The seller stated the offset was 25mm and didn't know what the offset of the Corvette was. The offset for a Corvette is around 55mm. That is why they are about 1.25" out too far. It doesn't appear these wheels were designed for use on a stock C5.
This is just my opinion, eveybody has one, since you solicited it. I feel you didn't perform your 'due diligence' in makeing a positive determination that this wheel/tire combo would be a good fit for your car. There are online calculators for detrmining tire size based on the specifications, and there are guidelines for maximum tire sizes for our stock wheel wells. The seller implied that this combo would work on a C5 but didn't state he had actually driven with them
You didn't verify that a 25mm offset would work on your car, but the seller didn't state that that they didn't fit on his car. They wouldn't have fit on his car also which is why he put them on and took them off to sell in the first place. My opinion again, I have no proof that is what happened.
Since the seller put up the numbers and his experience with this combo I feel that he met his obligation to provide adequate information to make a purchase. The fact that he implied they would work on a C5 is of little consequence because one should be certain of what they buy before they pay that it will 'fit the bill'. The seller also offered to make things 'equitable' but in a way that put the responibility on UPS. That is not acceptable because it feels like an attempt at fraud to get UPS to pay for this.
There are a couple of ways to resolve this as I see it.
1) If the seller really wants to be amicable they should allow you to pay the shipping charges back to him and refund your money, providing that he will get the combo back in the condition he sent them in. I don't believe he is required to do this but as I said it would be the 'forum' thing to do. In my opinion.
2) You could pull the sensors out and sell the combo yourself and recoup most of your money and consider it a 'lesson learned'.
3) I don't know if this is possible, but you could have the wheels modified to fit. Maybe additional offset can be machined into them?
4) Maybe some other solution will be offered that I haven't thought of.
Again, the above is just my opinion based on the information presented. I'm hoping you get this resolved to your satisfaction.
The seller stated exactly what the tires were and what the offsets of the wheels were. A 305/45/x18 tire in the rear is a BIG tire and I would have not considered them as tires to be used on my Corvette until I could verify they would fit without problems. The seller did state he thought they might be too large, so it would have been in your best interests to verify this.
The second item I see a problem with is the offset. The seller stated the offset was 25mm and didn't know what the offset of the Corvette was. The offset for a Corvette is around 55mm. That is why they are about 1.25" out too far. It doesn't appear these wheels were designed for use on a stock C5.
This is just my opinion, eveybody has one, since you solicited it. I feel you didn't perform your 'due diligence' in makeing a positive determination that this wheel/tire combo would be a good fit for your car. There are online calculators for detrmining tire size based on the specifications, and there are guidelines for maximum tire sizes for our stock wheel wells. The seller implied that this combo would work on a C5 but didn't state he had actually driven with them
only marks are in the lug wells when I briefly put them on the car and then took them off. There are zero miles on the rims.
Since the seller put up the numbers and his experience with this combo I feel that he met his obligation to provide adequate information to make a purchase. The fact that he implied they would work on a C5 is of little consequence because one should be certain of what they buy before they pay that it will 'fit the bill'. The seller also offered to make things 'equitable' but in a way that put the responibility on UPS. That is not acceptable because it feels like an attempt at fraud to get UPS to pay for this.
There are a couple of ways to resolve this as I see it.
1) If the seller really wants to be amicable they should allow you to pay the shipping charges back to him and refund your money, providing that he will get the combo back in the condition he sent them in. I don't believe he is required to do this but as I said it would be the 'forum' thing to do. In my opinion.
2) You could pull the sensors out and sell the combo yourself and recoup most of your money and consider it a 'lesson learned'.
3) I don't know if this is possible, but you could have the wheels modified to fit. Maybe additional offset can be machined into them?
4) Maybe some other solution will be offered that I haven't thought of.
Again, the above is just my opinion based on the information presented. I'm hoping you get this resolved to your satisfaction.
04-04-2005, 10:47 AM
#5
MONARTOR
Originally Posted by ArKay99
I read both your thread and the thread posting the wheels/tires for sale you referenced. I wasn't able to link to the pics supplied in the for sale thread so I can't make a judgement on that. Here is what I feel about the transaction.
The seller stated exactly what the tires were and what the offsets of the wheels were. A 305/45/x18 tire in the rear is a BIG tire and I would have not considered them as tires to be used on my Corvette until I could verify they would fit without problems. The seller did state he thought they might be too large, so it would have been in your best interests to verify this.
The second item I see a problem with is the offset. The seller stated the offset was 25mm and didn't know what the offset of the Corvette was. The offset for a Corvette is around 55mm. That is why they are about 1.25" out too far. It doesn't appear these wheels were designed for use on a stock C5.
This is just my opinion, eveybody has one, since you solicited it. I feel you didn't perform your 'due diligence' in makeing a positive determination that this wheel/tire combo would be a good fit for your car. There are online calculators for detrmining tire size based on the specifications, and there are guidelines for maximum tire sizes for our stock wheel wells. The seller implied that this combo would work on a C5 but didn't state he had actually driven with them You didn't verify that a 25mm offset would work on your car, but the seller didn't state that that they didn't fit on his car. They wouldn't have fit on his car also which is why he put them on and took them off to sell in the first place. My opinion again, I have no proof that is what happened.
Since the seller put up the numbers and his experience with this combo I feel that he met his obligation to provide adequate information to make a purchase. The fact that he implied they would work on a C5 is of little consequence because one should be certain of what they buy before they pay that it will 'fit the bill'. The seller also offered to make things 'equitable' but in a way that put the responibility on UPS. That is not acceptable because it feels like an attempt at fraud to get UPS to pay for this.
There are a couple of ways to resolve this as I see it.
1) If the seller really wants to be amicable they should allow you to pay the shipping charges back to him and refund your money, providing that he will get the combo back in the condition he sent them in. I don't believe he is required to do this but as I said it would be the 'forum' thing to do. In my opinion.
2) You could pull the sensors out and sell the combo yourself and recoup most of your money and consider it a 'lesson learned'.
3) I don't know if this is possible, but you could have the wheels modified to fit. Maybe additional offset can be machined into them?
4) Maybe some other solution will be offered that I haven't thought of.
Again, the above is just my opinion based on the information presented. I'm hoping you get this resolved to your satisfaction.
The seller stated exactly what the tires were and what the offsets of the wheels were. A 305/45/x18 tire in the rear is a BIG tire and I would have not considered them as tires to be used on my Corvette until I could verify they would fit without problems. The seller did state he thought they might be too large, so it would have been in your best interests to verify this.
The second item I see a problem with is the offset. The seller stated the offset was 25mm and didn't know what the offset of the Corvette was. The offset for a Corvette is around 55mm. That is why they are about 1.25" out too far. It doesn't appear these wheels were designed for use on a stock C5.
This is just my opinion, eveybody has one, since you solicited it. I feel you didn't perform your 'due diligence' in makeing a positive determination that this wheel/tire combo would be a good fit for your car. There are online calculators for detrmining tire size based on the specifications, and there are guidelines for maximum tire sizes for our stock wheel wells. The seller implied that this combo would work on a C5 but didn't state he had actually driven with them You didn't verify that a 25mm offset would work on your car, but the seller didn't state that that they didn't fit on his car. They wouldn't have fit on his car also which is why he put them on and took them off to sell in the first place. My opinion again, I have no proof that is what happened.
Since the seller put up the numbers and his experience with this combo I feel that he met his obligation to provide adequate information to make a purchase. The fact that he implied they would work on a C5 is of little consequence because one should be certain of what they buy before they pay that it will 'fit the bill'. The seller also offered to make things 'equitable' but in a way that put the responibility on UPS. That is not acceptable because it feels like an attempt at fraud to get UPS to pay for this.
There are a couple of ways to resolve this as I see it.
1) If the seller really wants to be amicable they should allow you to pay the shipping charges back to him and refund your money, providing that he will get the combo back in the condition he sent them in. I don't believe he is required to do this but as I said it would be the 'forum' thing to do. In my opinion.
2) You could pull the sensors out and sell the combo yourself and recoup most of your money and consider it a 'lesson learned'.
3) I don't know if this is possible, but you could have the wheels modified to fit. Maybe additional offset can be machined into them?
4) Maybe some other solution will be offered that I haven't thought of.
Again, the above is just my opinion based on the information presented. I'm hoping you get this resolved to your satisfaction.
from the thread quoted...
Ill take the risk on the rears, worst case scenario i get new tires.
I refer you to the following thread.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=876845
04-04-2005, 06:10 PM
#6
Racer
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Like I said, I have no issues with the rear, but the front tires rub horribly, the center caps dont fit, along with the ONE front rim being of different offset than the other. Just looking for opinions
04-04-2005, 06:13 PM
#7
Drifting
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Hey Brian, I think this is a good idea to see what others are thinking….I am going to post up the exchanges we had verbatim and see what everyone thinks. But before I do I want to state a few things pointedly….some to respond to you and your concerns, some to others who have already posted, and some that will come along and need all the information for their honest opinion.
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I still stand behind the fact that I did state the backspacing measurement and that it was not stock, and that I did not know the fitment of the rims and implored anyone considering the purchase to please check that the fitment will work…specifically backspacing.
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I have not heard from you for two weeks and would have appreciated your opinion on my suggested resolution. Especially since I asked you what you felt would be fair and you threw up your hands said you did not have an opinion on what would be fair. I tried my best to consider the issue and promise you I spent serious thought on this. Even upon personally believing that I stated everything I knew about the setup and feeling no responsibility (but empathy) for your not researching the fitment I still attempted to find a resolution that minimized my out-of-pocket (again knowing I told all I knew about the setup) but still allowed you to recoup if not all, more than all of your initial investment. Granted with a little effort on your part like getting the tires dismounted so you could sell the Nittos and Tire Pressure Sensors, but not an undue amount of effort.
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As for test fitting the extent of what I did was to jack the car up and make sure the bolt pattern lined up. It was January, 20-some degrees out, with 8 inches of snow on the ground. Since I bought them on eBay I had to see if they bolted up before leaving feedback (which I left as positive for the seller as I did not know the backspacing problem). I did not lower the car nor tighten the rims so again I was not aware of the backspacing issue. Additionally, I did not have the center cap problem likely because of not putting on the lugs
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Here is the information from UPS’ site directly so NO BS junkmn, either party can file the claim. My thinking was if I lodge the claim how do I know its validity? I have no pictures or proof and if you note in the response bsmall423 was not prepared to or asking to have a claim filed on his behalf. I offered it as a possible part of a resolution to which I never received a reply. Why would I file one and have UPS come claim a rim he wanted at that time? Bsmall has to date never told me to initiate a claim and I know of none he has filed and I have not had contact with him since my reply to him below on March 20 until this post was made.
Who can contact UPS to report a damaged package?
The shipper or receiver of the package may call UPS to report a damage. If a damaged package is discovered while still in the UPS system, a damage report will be issued, the shipper of record will be notified, and the package will be returned to the shipper if transportable.
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And I am clearly not trying to rip off UPS (perhaps with the exception of "in the buyer's favor" by advising not to say they were mounted and driven on the car!!!). I do not know whether they understand that a set of 3 rims and tires are useless and will come to collect all or just the damaged one. My suggestion was to see how that went and then move on to the second parts of my suggestion
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Sorry about the pics not working anymore…once the rims were sold I took them off of my msn group. I was able to find them and repost. They are at the bottom.
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I don’t know what the time limit if for filing a claim with UPS, but I’m sure it’s not forever. TICK-TOCK!!! And I seriously pray that driving with them for however short a distance did not compromise the ability to have UPS honor the damage claim.
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PM’s:
1-----
2-24-05 11:58pm BSMALL423 to Heavenisablownc5
I can give you one of two addresses, if business is cheaper you can ship it to my work, but id prefer home.
Home: Brian Small XXXXXXX
WORK: Brian Small XXXXXXXX
Thanks again! Money orders fine right?
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5Hey there....just didn't want to post my address publicly...Mark MorgenfruhXXXXXXXXShoot me back your address so I can get a ship quote to you for the total.THX!MM
2-----
2-25-05 at 1pm Bsmall423 to heaven
Sounds good, just let me know, have a good one!
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5Money order is cool....residential is always a little more but I will work up the quote both ways from UPS and let you know the difference.
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2-27-05 at 1:46pm Heaven to Bsmall423
I just worked up the ship quote on UPS....to your home for all 4 rims and tires is 134.14. To a business it's 123.22. If you want it to the business let me know but $11.00 is pretty cheap consider the hassle to pickup and cart home. I'll do what you like.
I have not heard back from the other guy on a ship cost. It's your call. I've never used him so I have no idea how much cheaper he could do it.
We can do this if you like....Cover $125 shipping and send me $1125. If he's over that I'll eat it or just stay with UPS, and if it's under I'll let you know how much and refund it to you.
Let me know. They are ready to ship.
THX!
MM
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2-27-05 at 3:52pm Bsmall to heaven
Awesome sounds great, Ill get the money order when I get off work tonight. Hopefuly you should have it by weds which puts the rims and tires here around monday next week. I cant wait! Taking the vette on a nice 300 mile cruise this weekend, hopefully the weather is nice. You better not be selling your vette, i see your selling a few other parts too.
Thanks again!
5-----
2-27-05 at 5:36pm heaven to bsmall
(he had a cruise scheduled for the weekend and asked about getting them delivered in time)
Sorry man, it jumped to $293.00 on 3 Day Select.
MM
6-----
Date/time I’m not sure…only kept the quotation as part of the post below
Bsmall to heaven responding to the 3 day select cost
Wow, quite a bit of difference, whats the average turn around for ground, its normally 3 days anyways isnt it? or is it different for freight?
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2-27-05 at 7:38pm heaven to bsmall
(he had a cruise scheduled for the weekend and wanted the new rims on for then)
It may be different from freight but I'm using the normal UPS Service. Here's the deal...the online system states a delivery of 3/3 if it leaves tomorrow ground shipping. I'm going to send them out tomorrow so you can get rolling on Thursday...and if the rears are too big and you have to get other tires at least there's a day for you to take care of it. Even just swap your existing 18 tires onto the rears of these. I am a trusting person and believe in the general decentness of people. But please email the USPS Deliver Confirmation number tomorrow and all is well.
THX!
MM
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2-27-05 at 7:53pm
bsmall to heaven
Hey i really do appeciate that, and ill be going to dominicks to overnight the money order in a few hours. I really do appeciate that, and for your reasurance if youd like to look at my ebay feedback its mr-shakey all positive over 120 feedbacks. Thanks again!
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2-28-05 at 6:10pm bsmall to heaven responding to other shipping option
wow thats nuts, unfortunately dominicks refused to do a money order for 1125, they had a 500$ cap. I overnighted it from the postal service though, should be there weds AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5Well it's a good thing we didn't wait for that other quote from the guy that wants to help us forum members sve money on shippping.The quote was $191.80.
10-----
3-2-05 at 5:13pm bsmall to heaven
UPS only have record of 3 packages being delivered, and only 3 are scheduled for tomorrow. Did you keep the last one until payment was received? You should have the money order today. Just curious as to what exactly was goin on. UPS said that you should contact them if you did send it out, but they never scanned that package at pick up time. If you would like you can give my cell a call anytime 847-710-2746. Thanks!
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3-3-05 at 4:30pm bsmall to heaven (include couple quotes in between)
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5i had tried sending a couple messages early this morning...what was the last oen you received?THX!MM
Originally Posted by bsmall423sorry my box was full! i didnt receive any of the 3...
UPS online tells me all 4 were delivered. Please confirm. THX!MM
Yep i got all four rims, one is kinda damaged but i think ill make due. Thanks again! did u receive the money order?
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3-4-05 at 2:54 am bsmall to heaven
well the back wheels rubbed and tore off paint from my rear quarter panel, the fronts rubbed so bad on the first turn it torn the plastic fender liner into 2 pieces. The one rim is damaged, uggg over all not very happy, the front rims stick out 3 inches like a mexican low rider. The center caps wont fit on the back end wont fit because where the axle meets the hub it sticks out past the center of the rim, so ud have to have big rusty metal thing sticking out of the center of the rim. Now i basically have to buy new front rims, new front tires, and new rear tires. 1200 bucks for a set of rear rims.
Hopefully we can get this resolved, just kinda seems unfair to me. Im 18 and money isnt the easiest thing to come by.
13-----
3-5-05 at 12:16pm heaven to bsmall
I agree and hope we can get a good resolution.
I can sincerely appreciate your position. I thought I posted up as much information I possibly had about the rims/sensors/tires and cannot see where I could have added more. In your opinion what else could have been added?
But i have to ask....if when you mounted them you knew the rear tires were a potential rubbing issue why did you drive hard enough to load the suspension to the point of rubbing and damaging the quarter panel? I'm not trying to be a jerk about it but we both knew the rear tires were potentially too big, and I felt they were almost definitely too big.
I still urge you to submit a claim with UPS as I did the other day for that one damaged wheel. Those wheels left here in perfect condition and I had the 3" of packing they require on the rim faces to invoke their coverage. I insured each rim for $300.
I wish I had taken some pics when i mounted them because I did not have the centercap problem. Granted I couldn't drive it in the snow at the time, and maybe driving it would have dislodged it, but it went on with the car standing still just fine.
What, in your opinion, would be a fair resolution?
THX!
MM
14-----
3-16-05 at 4:17pm bsmall to heaven
Honestly, i dont know what a fair resolution would be, but im not blaming you for the rear tires, the reason they rubbed was when u jack the car up and lower it, it isnt going to sit as low as it did before before the springs readjust. I lowered it, they fit, i pulled out of the driveway and thats when they started to rub. My main issue is with the fronts, the tires rub there, and after putting them back on the car one rims seems to have a different offset because it sticks out about an inch and a quarter further than the other side. So im basically stuck all around having to buy a new set of front rims and tires, and rear tires. It is impossible for the center caps to fit at all, the wheel hub sticks out 2 inches through the center of the rim. Naturally its all rusty and IMHO looks like pardon the language but ****. What do you think a fair resolution would be? If you need pics or anything of whatever just let me know, ill go to the storage place and see if i can get them back on the car. Thanks again!
15-----
3-19-05 at 11:53am bsmall to heaven
Saw you have been on a few times since the last PM, just wondering if you got it or not?
16-----
3-20-05 at 12:07pm heaven to bsmall
Well my girl uses my ID on the PC and lots of times I leave the website open so it's likely I appear online almost always.
I have been thinking about getting you back to driveable and here's what I'd like to do. I want to make sure you're adequately compensated but I do stand behind my attempt to provide as much information I had about the set in the original description. Additionally the setup cost me 1450 new and I took a bath at 1000 selling it but knew that.
Rims new were 660 so to replace the two ones that don't fit I can offer you 330. I insured each rim/tire for $300 so if you file a damaged claim with UPS for the one rim you're up to 630.
I am unsure of UPS' policy whether they have to take the one tire/rim or all 4. If it's all 4, great then you're at 1200. I would push the issue with them that thre rims and tires do you no good at all.
If it's only the damaged rim then make sure the 275 tire size is on it and take off the tire pressure sensor.
The Nitto's will easily go for more that 300.
Tire sensors will go for 150 if you don't need them on your car or will use yours.
So here are the potential solutions:
1) UPS colllects all 4 rims and tires under the damage claim and you get 1200. I would take the sensors off now as you probably won't find out if they take 1 or all 4 until a day or two before they want to pick them up and you might not have time to dismount the sensors.
2) UPS collects the one damaged rim and 275 width tire minus the pressure sensor and you get 300 on the claim, you sell Nittos for 300 (prob more), sensors for 150, remaining 3 rims for est 200 (just to unload quickly on eBay) and I send you a check for 330 for a total of 1280 but with a little effort on both our parts.
Let's put scenario 1 into play and if we find out they only want the 1 rim/tire we'll execute scenario 2 and I will send you a check immed.
In either scenario you must file the damage claim with them. I would not tell them you've had them on the car and have driven it or they may refuse the claim altogether. You also must state that how you received the rims/tires with the 3 inches or greater of packing material I did place on the rim faces. If all works out you get back more than the 1000 you paid and can put that towards the fix or the body work.
MM
-----------------
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=260
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=261
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=262
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=263
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=264
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=265
------------------
I still stand behind the fact that I did state the backspacing measurement and that it was not stock, and that I did not know the fitment of the rims and implored anyone considering the purchase to please check that the fitment will work…specifically backspacing.
------------------
I have not heard from you for two weeks and would have appreciated your opinion on my suggested resolution. Especially since I asked you what you felt would be fair and you threw up your hands said you did not have an opinion on what would be fair. I tried my best to consider the issue and promise you I spent serious thought on this. Even upon personally believing that I stated everything I knew about the setup and feeling no responsibility (but empathy) for your not researching the fitment I still attempted to find a resolution that minimized my out-of-pocket (again knowing I told all I knew about the setup) but still allowed you to recoup if not all, more than all of your initial investment. Granted with a little effort on your part like getting the tires dismounted so you could sell the Nittos and Tire Pressure Sensors, but not an undue amount of effort.
-----------------
As for test fitting the extent of what I did was to jack the car up and make sure the bolt pattern lined up. It was January, 20-some degrees out, with 8 inches of snow on the ground. Since I bought them on eBay I had to see if they bolted up before leaving feedback (which I left as positive for the seller as I did not know the backspacing problem). I did not lower the car nor tighten the rims so again I was not aware of the backspacing issue. Additionally, I did not have the center cap problem likely because of not putting on the lugs
------------------
Here is the information from UPS’ site directly so NO BS junkmn, either party can file the claim. My thinking was if I lodge the claim how do I know its validity? I have no pictures or proof and if you note in the response bsmall423 was not prepared to or asking to have a claim filed on his behalf. I offered it as a possible part of a resolution to which I never received a reply. Why would I file one and have UPS come claim a rim he wanted at that time? Bsmall has to date never told me to initiate a claim and I know of none he has filed and I have not had contact with him since my reply to him below on March 20 until this post was made.
Who can contact UPS to report a damaged package?
The shipper or receiver of the package may call UPS to report a damage. If a damaged package is discovered while still in the UPS system, a damage report will be issued, the shipper of record will be notified, and the package will be returned to the shipper if transportable.
-------------------
And I am clearly not trying to rip off UPS (perhaps with the exception of "in the buyer's favor" by advising not to say they were mounted and driven on the car!!!). I do not know whether they understand that a set of 3 rims and tires are useless and will come to collect all or just the damaged one. My suggestion was to see how that went and then move on to the second parts of my suggestion
-------------------
Sorry about the pics not working anymore…once the rims were sold I took them off of my msn group. I was able to find them and repost. They are at the bottom.
-------------------
I don’t know what the time limit if for filing a claim with UPS, but I’m sure it’s not forever. TICK-TOCK!!! And I seriously pray that driving with them for however short a distance did not compromise the ability to have UPS honor the damage claim.
-------------------
PM’s:
1-----
2-24-05 11:58pm BSMALL423 to Heavenisablownc5
I can give you one of two addresses, if business is cheaper you can ship it to my work, but id prefer home.
Home: Brian Small XXXXXXX
WORK: Brian Small XXXXXXXX
Thanks again! Money orders fine right?
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5Hey there....just didn't want to post my address publicly...Mark MorgenfruhXXXXXXXXShoot me back your address so I can get a ship quote to you for the total.THX!MM
2-----
2-25-05 at 1pm Bsmall423 to heaven
Sounds good, just let me know, have a good one!
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5Money order is cool....residential is always a little more but I will work up the quote both ways from UPS and let you know the difference.
3-----
2-27-05 at 1:46pm Heaven to Bsmall423
I just worked up the ship quote on UPS....to your home for all 4 rims and tires is 134.14. To a business it's 123.22. If you want it to the business let me know but $11.00 is pretty cheap consider the hassle to pickup and cart home. I'll do what you like.
I have not heard back from the other guy on a ship cost. It's your call. I've never used him so I have no idea how much cheaper he could do it.
We can do this if you like....Cover $125 shipping and send me $1125. If he's over that I'll eat it or just stay with UPS, and if it's under I'll let you know how much and refund it to you.
Let me know. They are ready to ship.
THX!
MM
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2-27-05 at 3:52pm Bsmall to heaven
Awesome sounds great, Ill get the money order when I get off work tonight. Hopefuly you should have it by weds which puts the rims and tires here around monday next week. I cant wait! Taking the vette on a nice 300 mile cruise this weekend, hopefully the weather is nice. You better not be selling your vette, i see your selling a few other parts too.
Thanks again!
5-----
2-27-05 at 5:36pm heaven to bsmall
(he had a cruise scheduled for the weekend and asked about getting them delivered in time)
Sorry man, it jumped to $293.00 on 3 Day Select.
MM
6-----
Date/time I’m not sure…only kept the quotation as part of the post below
Bsmall to heaven responding to the 3 day select cost
Wow, quite a bit of difference, whats the average turn around for ground, its normally 3 days anyways isnt it? or is it different for freight?
7-----
2-27-05 at 7:38pm heaven to bsmall
(he had a cruise scheduled for the weekend and wanted the new rims on for then)
It may be different from freight but I'm using the normal UPS Service. Here's the deal...the online system states a delivery of 3/3 if it leaves tomorrow ground shipping. I'm going to send them out tomorrow so you can get rolling on Thursday...and if the rears are too big and you have to get other tires at least there's a day for you to take care of it. Even just swap your existing 18 tires onto the rears of these. I am a trusting person and believe in the general decentness of people. But please email the USPS Deliver Confirmation number tomorrow and all is well.
THX!
MM
8-----
2-27-05 at 7:53pm
bsmall to heaven
Hey i really do appeciate that, and ill be going to dominicks to overnight the money order in a few hours. I really do appeciate that, and for your reasurance if youd like to look at my ebay feedback its mr-shakey all positive over 120 feedbacks. Thanks again!
9-----
2-28-05 at 6:10pm bsmall to heaven responding to other shipping option
wow thats nuts, unfortunately dominicks refused to do a money order for 1125, they had a 500$ cap. I overnighted it from the postal service though, should be there weds AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5Well it's a good thing we didn't wait for that other quote from the guy that wants to help us forum members sve money on shippping.The quote was $191.80.
10-----
3-2-05 at 5:13pm bsmall to heaven
UPS only have record of 3 packages being delivered, and only 3 are scheduled for tomorrow. Did you keep the last one until payment was received? You should have the money order today. Just curious as to what exactly was goin on. UPS said that you should contact them if you did send it out, but they never scanned that package at pick up time. If you would like you can give my cell a call anytime 847-710-2746. Thanks!
11-----
3-3-05 at 4:30pm bsmall to heaven (include couple quotes in between)
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5i had tried sending a couple messages early this morning...what was the last oen you received?THX!MM
Originally Posted by bsmall423sorry my box was full! i didnt receive any of the 3...
UPS online tells me all 4 were delivered. Please confirm. THX!MM
Yep i got all four rims, one is kinda damaged but i think ill make due. Thanks again! did u receive the money order?
12-----
3-4-05 at 2:54 am bsmall to heaven
well the back wheels rubbed and tore off paint from my rear quarter panel, the fronts rubbed so bad on the first turn it torn the plastic fender liner into 2 pieces. The one rim is damaged, uggg over all not very happy, the front rims stick out 3 inches like a mexican low rider. The center caps wont fit on the back end wont fit because where the axle meets the hub it sticks out past the center of the rim, so ud have to have big rusty metal thing sticking out of the center of the rim. Now i basically have to buy new front rims, new front tires, and new rear tires. 1200 bucks for a set of rear rims.
Hopefully we can get this resolved, just kinda seems unfair to me. Im 18 and money isnt the easiest thing to come by.
13-----
3-5-05 at 12:16pm heaven to bsmall
I agree and hope we can get a good resolution.
I can sincerely appreciate your position. I thought I posted up as much information I possibly had about the rims/sensors/tires and cannot see where I could have added more. In your opinion what else could have been added?
But i have to ask....if when you mounted them you knew the rear tires were a potential rubbing issue why did you drive hard enough to load the suspension to the point of rubbing and damaging the quarter panel? I'm not trying to be a jerk about it but we both knew the rear tires were potentially too big, and I felt they were almost definitely too big.
I still urge you to submit a claim with UPS as I did the other day for that one damaged wheel. Those wheels left here in perfect condition and I had the 3" of packing they require on the rim faces to invoke their coverage. I insured each rim for $300.
I wish I had taken some pics when i mounted them because I did not have the centercap problem. Granted I couldn't drive it in the snow at the time, and maybe driving it would have dislodged it, but it went on with the car standing still just fine.
What, in your opinion, would be a fair resolution?
THX!
MM
14-----
3-16-05 at 4:17pm bsmall to heaven
Honestly, i dont know what a fair resolution would be, but im not blaming you for the rear tires, the reason they rubbed was when u jack the car up and lower it, it isnt going to sit as low as it did before before the springs readjust. I lowered it, they fit, i pulled out of the driveway and thats when they started to rub. My main issue is with the fronts, the tires rub there, and after putting them back on the car one rims seems to have a different offset because it sticks out about an inch and a quarter further than the other side. So im basically stuck all around having to buy a new set of front rims and tires, and rear tires. It is impossible for the center caps to fit at all, the wheel hub sticks out 2 inches through the center of the rim. Naturally its all rusty and IMHO looks like pardon the language but ****. What do you think a fair resolution would be? If you need pics or anything of whatever just let me know, ill go to the storage place and see if i can get them back on the car. Thanks again!
15-----
3-19-05 at 11:53am bsmall to heaven
Saw you have been on a few times since the last PM, just wondering if you got it or not?
16-----
3-20-05 at 12:07pm heaven to bsmall
Well my girl uses my ID on the PC and lots of times I leave the website open so it's likely I appear online almost always.
I have been thinking about getting you back to driveable and here's what I'd like to do. I want to make sure you're adequately compensated but I do stand behind my attempt to provide as much information I had about the set in the original description. Additionally the setup cost me 1450 new and I took a bath at 1000 selling it but knew that.
Rims new were 660 so to replace the two ones that don't fit I can offer you 330. I insured each rim/tire for $300 so if you file a damaged claim with UPS for the one rim you're up to 630.
I am unsure of UPS' policy whether they have to take the one tire/rim or all 4. If it's all 4, great then you're at 1200. I would push the issue with them that thre rims and tires do you no good at all.
If it's only the damaged rim then make sure the 275 tire size is on it and take off the tire pressure sensor.
The Nitto's will easily go for more that 300.
Tire sensors will go for 150 if you don't need them on your car or will use yours.
So here are the potential solutions:
1) UPS colllects all 4 rims and tires under the damage claim and you get 1200. I would take the sensors off now as you probably won't find out if they take 1 or all 4 until a day or two before they want to pick them up and you might not have time to dismount the sensors.
2) UPS collects the one damaged rim and 275 width tire minus the pressure sensor and you get 300 on the claim, you sell Nittos for 300 (prob more), sensors for 150, remaining 3 rims for est 200 (just to unload quickly on eBay) and I send you a check for 330 for a total of 1280 but with a little effort on both our parts.
Let's put scenario 1 into play and if we find out they only want the 1 rim/tire we'll execute scenario 2 and I will send you a check immed.
In either scenario you must file the damage claim with them. I would not tell them you've had them on the car and have driven it or they may refuse the claim altogether. You also must state that how you received the rims/tires with the 3 inches or greater of packing material I did place on the rim faces. If all works out you get back more than the 1000 you paid and can put that towards the fix or the body work.
MM
-----------------
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=260
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=261
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=262
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=263
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=264
http://groups.msn.com/Morgenfruh/sho...to&PhotoID=265
04-04-2005, 06:20 PM
#8
Advanced
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ups not what you think
i had a ss part damaged to trash during shipping, i had 100.00 ins. on it ups said it was boxed wrong an not there fault. i payed 29.00 for the part to be boxed at ups box ect. store they said ups es fault not boxing so i was out part+ 29 boxing shipping. 
04-04-2005, 06:32 PM
#9
Racer
Member Since: Jan 2005
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Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5
------------------
Here is the information from UPS’ site directly so NO BS junkmn, either party can file the claim.
Here is the information from UPS’ site directly so NO BS junkmn, either party can file the claim.
Apologize for the BS. Last time I shipped something and it was damaged, I (the shipper) had to submit the claim and I was the party that received the refund. It was a run around though, took over 6 weeks to receive.
They have probably changed their procedures. I would imagine it would still take some time for that refund. Should definitely be jumping on it, whoever has to submit it.
04-04-2005, 06:34 PM
#10
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2002
Location: Houston Texas
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IMHO,
This is what I think should happen. If you sell something on the board to a fellow Corvette person you should be willing to take it back. No questions asked.
Now, the item should be in the same shape that it was sent in and the buyer should pay for return shipping.
Now, should the seller recoup shipping costs? I don't know. We all take a risk buying and selling things here so I would say no.
Its really up to both parties to make sure it will work for the buyer. I know things can never be perfect. Someone is going to take a bigger loss. So, the easiest thing to do is both parties risked the shipping and the hassel factor.
Take Care,
P.S. I hope you guys can work this out.
This is what I think should happen. If you sell something on the board to a fellow Corvette person you should be willing to take it back. No questions asked.
Now, the item should be in the same shape that it was sent in and the buyer should pay for return shipping.
Now, should the seller recoup shipping costs? I don't know. We all take a risk buying and selling things here so I would say no.
Its really up to both parties to make sure it will work for the buyer. I know things can never be perfect. Someone is going to take a bigger loss. So, the easiest thing to do is both parties risked the shipping and the hassel factor.
Take Care,
P.S. I hope you guys can work this out.
04-05-2005, 07:14 PM
#11
Team Owner
My opinion:
If you sell something on the CORVETTE FORUM C5 section you should be sure it will work on a C5.
The buyer is green behind the ears and will certainly not make this kind of buying error in the future.
These things should be sold on F-body forum, C4 forum, Mustang forum (or where ever it is determined the offeset was designed for) or on E-bay. Then the buyer and seller should share or split the difference from the purchaced price.
If you sell something on the CORVETTE FORUM C5 section you should be sure it will work on a C5.
The buyer is green behind the ears and will certainly not make this kind of buying error in the future.
These things should be sold on F-body forum, C4 forum, Mustang forum (or where ever it is determined the offeset was designed for) or on E-bay. Then the buyer and seller should share or split the difference from the purchaced price.
04-05-2005, 08:33 PM
#12
Safety Car
"caveat empitor" .... "Let the buyer Beware" and the seller seems more than accomidating in this issue. These are "used" wheels and the seller provided a reasonable description and never forced the buyer to purchase them.
04-05-2005, 09:18 PM
#13
Pro
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not to steal this thread but i too have been screwed by a board member. i bought some ce stripes that originally came from a a decent supplyer and changed my mind about installing them, sold them to another for a loss and he showed me how they were damaged, i paid him back and contacted the ***** i got them from and he ****ted out on me, completely. not everyone is a decent person and these are the brakes when you have to dael with a world full of *******s. please excuse my "french" (that i dont carefor after the war anyways).
04-06-2005, 02:50 AM
#14
Race Director
this is simple
the seller bought wheels on EBAY, put them on his Vette, off coarse they didnt fit (those wheels should be a LIGHTNING) so he turns around thinking that there is a sucka on this forum and sells them here
It does not take a COLLEGE PROFFESSOR to figure this out
And just because the GUY (seller) types up 10 paragraphs with HOW NICE HE IS ABOUT THE WHOLE THING dont mean $***................
He knew from the time he took the wheels off his VETTE that they wont fit ANOTHER VETTE..................
Ripp off
the seller bought wheels on EBAY, put them on his Vette, off coarse they didnt fit (those wheels should be a LIGHTNING) so he turns around thinking that there is a sucka on this forum and sells them here
It does not take a COLLEGE PROFFESSOR to figure this out
And just because the GUY (seller) types up 10 paragraphs with HOW NICE HE IS ABOUT THE WHOLE THING dont mean $***................
He knew from the time he took the wheels off his VETTE that they wont fit ANOTHER VETTE..................
Ripp off
04-06-2005, 06:32 AM
#15
Instructor
Member Since: Aug 2004
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In my opinion, anyone who sells an item, shold be willing to take it back if the buyer is not happy period. Anything less and that shows the seller is just concerned with dumping the item off on some poor sucker. Yeah buyer beware etc... I have sold stuff on ebay from parts to whole vehicles. I'll take anything back in it's same condition. Sure the buyer eats shipping but it's better than all the money and being stuck with something you're not able to use.And here on the CF I feel that it is even more appropriate to do business that way.
04-11-2005, 03:33 PM
#16
Racer
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Well would you be willing to take baxk the wheels, less shipping? Im going to be eatting 125 bucks for shipping to me. If you would like to claim the damage from the one wheel in shipping, then be my guest. Please let me know.
04-11-2005, 04:38 PM
#17
Drifting
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No, my offer still stands....I can appreciate everyone's opinion but that's just what they are...opinions. I stated all I knew about these rims and those with opinions otherwise are certainly entitled to them. My personal feeling is you should have checked the backspacing as I said what it was and did not know stock offset. And those who think this was intentional can continue to think that...it bothers me not. I know it was unintentional and have bought and sold tons of parts on here never with an issue. That's not to say I don't believe you to begin with, becasue I do. I take your word as I did when I shipped them before you paid....and could have even stopped the shipment when your payment did not arrive on the day it was supposed to. I am not a wheel guru and never claimed to know it. I have provided a potential resolution that will let you recoup your money, plus shipping, plus some headache money (or body repair money however you'd like to look at it). And I'm not going to have this drag on forever until you get the answer you want. Please make your decision and notify via post here or PM by next Monday, 4/18/05 at 5pm eastern.
04-11-2005, 05:21 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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Sad......
A kid with a Vette ???....just tried to come up on a good deal from a forum member ???....Got scammed!!! It is what it is.....and nothing else....SAD! 
Live and learn....
Live and learn....
04-11-2005, 05:56 PM
#19
Racer
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like what was previously stated, one front rim has a different offset than the other. UPS denied the claim because it is not to the exact face of the rim. Both of those issues are not my fault. Like you requested, You will have your answer by Monday. I believe I handled this in an appopriate way, unlike your last post. I over nighted the money to you, and it was ontime. And it was by money order like you requested. I offered to send you a downpayment through paypal before you sent the rims to make sure you knew i was legit. You also received the money before I received the rims.
04-11-2005, 06:08 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09
Originally Posted by HeavenIsABlownC5
I know it was unintentional and have bought and sold tons of parts on here never with an issue.
. I don't know why you didn't just come out and tell him to go screw himself. That's exactly what this all translates into 
How would you react to being on the receiving end of this deal? Believe me, you wouldn't like it any better than he does. Just remember, what comes around, goes around, and you'll get yours. I just hope we're all here to laugh about it when it's YOUR TURN 