dlivewyer

What exactly does it do, and what does locking it out do?

How does it effect the transmission and the shift?

Any adverse effects on the life of the transmission?

phils C5 vette

When i street tune a guys/gals car, they drive and I adjust settings, and I change and save a dozen or two times during the session to their liking.

With HP Tuners, there are are several torque management tables which I reduce or zero'd out. GM wants your car to reach a certain point of performance before it gives you all the torque your car can produce so the engine and drivetrain will not be abused and will last for 100-200,000 miles.

I prefer to shut those off, or reduce them dependant to owner preferance.

the tranmission shift points and pressure are enhanced by adjusting a differance set of tables. If you want your car to shift harder, faster, earlier or later, the chances are that yes over time it will reduce the life of the transmission. But you'll have fun getting there.

Transmission shift points and how hard it shifts are something that seems to change owner by owner. Some like it very hard and some dont.

on the otherside of the coin, if you beat the hell out of your car, its just a matter of time till something breaks whether you have it tuned or not.

In my car I have removed all the torque management with the exception of active handling. You want that to work !

seevi

Eliminating the transmission TM will enhance your ET at the track, but it is hard on the transmission. It will certainly reduce its life. TM will pull a great deal of timing when it sees WOT or shifting at WOT. This reduces torque and makes life easier on your transmission. Eliminating it brings that spark back to the tune and enhances performance. I have tuned my transmission, turning TM off for the drags, and only the drags. Keep in mind that any tradeoff for more power usually comes at the expense of durability and warranty.

Vette-Dream

Thanks for this information, I'm just going through forum searches now for A4 tuning (new hp tuners user here). There seems to be plenty of engine tuning information but not as much for the trans so far.

TurboLX

So... exactly how much torque do you think the stock transmission's clutches can hold when halfway applied? How many times do you think you can apply full torque to a partially applied clutch before it fails?

Lots of less experienced tooners like to just zero the TM out, but it's in there for a reason. There are other methods of improving shift feel slightly on street driven cars.

seevi

The question for me isn't how the shift feels as much as the the amount of advance that is backed out with TM engaged, how does one deal with that? My spark drops to about a -14 degrees at launch and doesn't recover for almost 2 seconds (lousy 60' times). Situation repeats when shifting (automatic). Is there a way to reverse any of that spark loss without disabling TM?

TurboLX

The spark retard IS the torque management. That's how the ECU reduces the engine's torque quickly while still having the ability to bring it back relatively quickly. It would be an even slower process if all of the torque management was done with the throttle position.

If you didn't retard the timing, the engine would be delivering full torque whether the trans is able to take it or not. This is what wears out clutches faster. From a stop, the tires can't plant 100% of even the stock engine's torque so it's prudent to have some degree of limiting to avoid overpowering them as well. This only gets exaggerated as we add power in the aftermarket.

tblu92

TQ mangaement and Traction control syst. are 2 different things--- The TQ mgmt uses the TCS to reduce tire spin when taking off or at a WOT shift --- TQ mgmt is used independently-whenever the car shifts-It can take out as much as 30% of your TQ at each shift point--This makes the car slower as you have to regain that momenmtum everytime it shifts--A good example would be like towing a trailer up a steep hill--It takes forever for it to get up to speed to shift if you take out 30% of the TQ at the shift--you have lost all that momentum to get up the hill and have to bulid it up all over again--you lose so many RPM's as it drops way down and takes forever to build up again--

I typically remove ALL the TQ mgmt on a stockish application---2 schools of thought--What is worse---having the trans shift firmer and not lose power when the TQ mgmt is turned off-- OR having the eng lose momentum and overheat as you wait longer for it to regain the TQ you lost at each shift---
The only time i would leave some in is like on a hds/cam C5 at the 1-2 shift--At WOT it can shift near 70 MPH and with no TQ Mgmt you can break the tires lose with HP and go sideways and lose control-very dangerous--
I typically leave the TCS alone----You can always turn it off---And it can save your life and your car---You can't catch a C5 when its out of control and no one can save it better than that computer-!!!!
One more thing i get rid of though is the "Abuse Mgmt " another table that hurts performance--Just keep in mind that when turning off or desensitizing any these tables---YOU are now the Tq mgmt and Abuse mgmt not the computer---common sense and seat of the pants feel is what you have to rely on---

TurboLX

I think you may be a bit misinformed. This posts sounds a lot like a rehashing of typical internet village wisdom instead of a technical reasoning.
Whenever torque is reduced via fast path control (spark advance relative to MBT), it can actuate in a matter of milliseconds since it can deliver unique timing on EACH TDC event. The time to recover from a single event can be as short as the duration between cylinder firing events if it's calibrated to do so. It takes essentially no time to "twist the distributor" on a modern ignition system.

The only limitation on rate of torque addition is how the factory calibrator sets the recovery rate. They intentionally blend the torque back in over some amount of time to give a smooth feel to the driver instead of a sudden bump.
You're confusing vehicle momentum with engine torque. If RPM remains constant, available torque remains constant as well. Available torque is a function of engine airflow (and fuel delivery) capacity at that specific RPM. If it's at WOT, the airflow is still there. All the PCM has to do to make full torque is return the timing back to optimal before the next firing event if it so desires.

Please show us where stock vehicles are overheating due to the interference of Torque Management. I'm sure GM (or any other OEM) would be very concerned if TM was going to endanger their warranty capability.

tblu92

Really funny----Inernet wisdom----Ha---Sir apparently you just pick and choose what you want to read--I won't waste my time with your forum nonsense but i will respond to one thing---if read my post---( you can read ?) it says clearly why the TQ mgmt could make an engine or trans overheat --in my example the reason says beacause you lose momentum goinf up a grade and you have to re-gain that and it wil takethe eng/trans longer to get over the top---pretty simple reasonning here--no where did i say the Tq directly makes an eng./trans hot-----AND your splitting hairs with words--torque--momentum--aren't they kinda the same thing ?? Most peole really don't actually know what TQ is !!! Mmentum is an easier word to explain what tq is--
And finally----Have you taken any training in GM ECM programming ? Do you have any programming software? have you actually tuned any computers ? and how many ??? next time you critize somene be careful who you pick on--And If you have an opinion GREAT---but soften you image and say "I think" or " in my opinion" yu'll do much better in life if you don't say thinngs to people like -"you are misinformed" Is that what you tell your wife when she fixes dinner and its bad ????----I've tuned over 1000 GM cars and trucks from stock to 900 HP---- been to countless training classes ans seminars and was taught by one of the nations best tuners----

I THINK you are acting like a typical engineer and over analyzing a common sense issue that is really simple-- The Tq mgmt deduct %'s are commanded by one thing delivered eng Tq at a specific gear change--300 lbs tq--subtracts 30 % a good exmple---To remove the Tq the eng uses the tract control system which can remove Tq via 1) throttle closing 2) fuel shut-off or 3) remove timing--- IF your stock engine has 300 Ft lbs of TQ and you have to remove 30% at shift---tht's 90 ft lbs it is commanded to take out !!!---Common sense tells you -- to a computer or distributor thats a lot--and a small timing change or a millisecond timing removal won't accmplish that !! the comp won't stop removing tq until its taken out 90 ft lbs----does't matter how or how long it takes--milliseconds or seconds bottom line its taking out 30% period----Thats HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!

TurboLX

To someone with an engineering background, they are very different things.
Um yes, actually.
I've used almost every major programming system out there over the years and work daily with ETAS INCA at the OEM level.
Literally thousands, not counting the cars in production that I was a part of the OEM calibration team for.
Been there, done that, got the four-digit RWHP t-shirt. I teach those classes for some of your best competitors who operate some of the most renowned tuning shops and product manufacturing companies in the business.
Uhh... perhaps one could request the same of you. I don't hide who I am. Click the link in my sig and you'll get a little better idea as to why I have the ability to contribute so well to discussions like these. I really don't care if you want to take personal shots at me. Please just realize that I have as much experience with calibration work as anyone on this board. I try to post and help the public where I can by providing solid unbiased info. I stand by 100% of my previous assessment.

DOUG @ ECS

Oh boy, this is going to get good.


I have no wish to join this conversation in a technical facet, but you were speaking with one of the most highly regarded EFI trainers. My guess is he knows more then most.

C6Matt

Exactly my thoughts as well...

seevi

Have you published any papers or books on tuning or electronic fuel injection systems?

cjs27410

Is this correct info for 6 speed?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-s...peed-cars.html

~Josh

I'd like to know how to reduce the TM/Abuse mode on my '01z.

I can feel the engine shut down sometimes during aggressive road driving. I shift smoothly with perfect rev-matching, but sometimes the computer really pulls the reigns back and I can feel it.... waiting for the power to come back in a second or two.

I have hptuners, does anyone have any tips/screen shots?

Thanks for any help!

cjs27410

Any thoughts/ideas/opinions out there?

phils C5 vette

he has a book or two that most people in tuning have read

seevi

CAn you give me a link to these?

phils C5 vette

In his Signature