Could someone explain "Mail order tunes/tunes in a box"
07-08-2016, 06:12 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Could someone explain "Mail order tunes/tunes in a box"
So, on a topic that has been beaten to death many times, I find that the "mail order answer' or 'answers in a box' that I found through searching just don't fit right, and I'd like to hear from you all for a 'hands-on' custom answer made just right for me (
)
My car is a 2001 A4 with 40k miles, long tubes, no cats and the zip-tie mod. It is my daily driver. Currently, it smells like it is running rich (maybe this is just from not having cats?) and sometimes when slowing down to a complete stop, the idle will "sputter" down to 200-300 before correcting itself; a couple times it has just died on me. I know it needs tuned, but the advice on this site seems to be 50/50 split. I am new to the Vette world but drove an LS1 F-body for years and the consensus with those guys seemed to be that getting a "chip" for your car was a waste of money.
What do you all think? Would a mail-order tune fit my needs? I can't really afford more than 2-3 days of vehicle downtime if I have to send my PCM off to get tuned. Is a programmer a better option? Or do I really need to get with a local tuner in person and have it done? Money is definitely an issue, I'm a medical student living on debt my future self will cover, so less is best. Suggestions?
)My car is a 2001 A4 with 40k miles, long tubes, no cats and the zip-tie mod. It is my daily driver. Currently, it smells like it is running rich (maybe this is just from not having cats?) and sometimes when slowing down to a complete stop, the idle will "sputter" down to 200-300 before correcting itself; a couple times it has just died on me. I know it needs tuned, but the advice on this site seems to be 50/50 split. I am new to the Vette world but drove an LS1 F-body for years and the consensus with those guys seemed to be that getting a "chip" for your car was a waste of money.
What do you all think? Would a mail-order tune fit my needs? I can't really afford more than 2-3 days of vehicle downtime if I have to send my PCM off to get tuned. Is a programmer a better option? Or do I really need to get with a local tuner in person and have it done? Money is definitely an issue, I'm a medical student living on debt my future self will cover, so less is best. Suggestions?
07-09-2016, 07:36 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
You will get several different answers
These cars have no "chips"
Mail order tunes basically just "guess" (although experience guesses) at what changes need to be made. They will change basic settings like timing, PE, torque management, trans settings, etc., but will not be able to address MF and VE tables without logging your car. These are normally guys that know what they are doing and can make some good upgrades because they've tuned enough cars to know what works.
You really haven't made enough major mods to justify the price of a "full tune". Heads, cams, intakes, etc make it mandatory to tune the VE and MAF tables to get the car to run properly.
Not sure why you are having idling problems unless you have left something loose (vac line?) but the smell is from no cats.
You can get some of these guys to send you a PCM with core charge and return yours after the swap.
These cars have no "chips"
Mail order tunes basically just "guess" (although experience guesses) at what changes need to be made. They will change basic settings like timing, PE, torque management, trans settings, etc., but will not be able to address MF and VE tables without logging your car. These are normally guys that know what they are doing and can make some good upgrades because they've tuned enough cars to know what works.
You really haven't made enough major mods to justify the price of a "full tune". Heads, cams, intakes, etc make it mandatory to tune the VE and MAF tables to get the car to run properly.
Not sure why you are having idling problems unless you have left something loose (vac line?) but the smell is from no cats.
You can get some of these guys to send you a PCM with core charge and return yours after the swap.
07-09-2016, 12:53 PM
#3
I agree with the above. I have an 02 Z with a vararam, LTs and catless X pipe. I did the mail order tune path for removing the rear O2s and the little tuning needs for the LTs. It was a good deal compared to buying HP tuners...well, a year later I now own HP tuners after some disappointing dyno numbers and track times from the mail order tune. Come to find out, the mail order tune actually had less timing in it than the car had stock from the factory. Wish I would have just bought HP tuners from the start, although the mail order tune did what it was supposed to I guess (no engine light from the LTs and deleted rear O2s).
07-09-2016, 01:11 PM
#4
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Mail order tunes have their place in the world and do serve a great purpose. Tuning is not cheap, so if you plan on future mods but have bolt on's now then it's great. Also if you do not have tuner near you or you just have some basic mods. The difference in price is a fraction, yet the difference in power is next to nothing.
Not all mail order tunes are the same, the way I perform our tunes is not by just scanning threw and making some changes, but using a huge library of tunes compiled over many years now. So when a person comes to me with a Vararam, AR headers and a 160 for instance, I go to my last dyno tune of their operating system and exact mods. So our mail order tunes are far from "a guess". Which is also why I only do tunes for bolt on's or smaller builds, otherwise they are considered start up files.
It took years to be able to have that many tunes on file, but that's why our mail order tuning has been so successful. Also just because the car was "dyno tuned", does not mean it was done correctly, regardless of what you paid. You should see of the "dyno tunes" we get in here to be repaired by a mail order tune.
Now the possible down sides are;
The car has a legitimate problem, there's no way for the tuner to know since it's not data logged. Such as excessive carbon build up, which is very common now in C5's.
The car was bought second hand and has an aftermarket MAF on it, the tune will be way off. Or the MAF is filthy dirty, that will make it run lean. Or any other situation like that, although rare compared to how many mail order tunes we do, it does and can happen. Naturally in that case we do what it takes to assist the customer in making it right, whatever that may be.
Hope that helps.
Not all mail order tunes are the same, the way I perform our tunes is not by just scanning threw and making some changes, but using a huge library of tunes compiled over many years now. So when a person comes to me with a Vararam, AR headers and a 160 for instance, I go to my last dyno tune of their operating system and exact mods. So our mail order tunes are far from "a guess". Which is also why I only do tunes for bolt on's or smaller builds, otherwise they are considered start up files.
It took years to be able to have that many tunes on file, but that's why our mail order tuning has been so successful. Also just because the car was "dyno tuned", does not mean it was done correctly, regardless of what you paid. You should see of the "dyno tunes" we get in here to be repaired by a mail order tune.
Now the possible down sides are;
The car has a legitimate problem, there's no way for the tuner to know since it's not data logged. Such as excessive carbon build up, which is very common now in C5's.
The car was bought second hand and has an aftermarket MAF on it, the tune will be way off. Or the MAF is filthy dirty, that will make it run lean. Or any other situation like that, although rare compared to how many mail order tunes we do, it does and can happen. Naturally in that case we do what it takes to assist the customer in making it right, whatever that may be.
Hope that helps.
07-09-2016, 02:10 PM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
Mail order tunes have their place in the world and do serve a great purpose. Tuning is not cheap, so if you plan on future mods but have bolt on's now then it's great. Also if you do not have tuner near you or you just have some basic mods. The difference in price is a fraction, yet the difference in power is next to nothing.
Not all mail order tunes are the same, the way I perform our tunes is not by just scanning threw and making some changes, but using a huge library of tunes compiled over many years now. So when a person comes to me with a Vararam, AR headers and a 160 for instance, I go to my last dyno tune of their operating system and exact mods. So our mail order tunes are far from "a guess". Which is also why I only do tunes for bolt on's or smaller builds, otherwise they are considered start up files.
It took years to be able to have that many tunes on file, but that's why our mail order tuning has been so successful. Also just because the car was "dyno tuned", does not mean it was done correctly, regardless of what you paid. You should see of the "dyno tunes" we get in here to be repaired by a mail order tune.
Now the possible down sides are;
The car has a legitimate problem, there's no way for the tuner to know since it's not data logged. Such as excessive carbon build up, which is very common now in C5's.
The car was bought second hand and has an aftermarket MAF on it, the tune will be way off. Or the MAF is filthy dirty, that will make it run lean. Or any other situation like that, although rare compared to how many mail order tunes we do, it does and can happen. Naturally in that case we do what it takes to assist the customer in making it right, whatever that may be.
Hope that helps.
Not all mail order tunes are the same, the way I perform our tunes is not by just scanning threw and making some changes, but using a huge library of tunes compiled over many years now. So when a person comes to me with a Vararam, AR headers and a 160 for instance, I go to my last dyno tune of their operating system and exact mods. So our mail order tunes are far from "a guess". Which is also why I only do tunes for bolt on's or smaller builds, otherwise they are considered start up files.
It took years to be able to have that many tunes on file, but that's why our mail order tuning has been so successful. Also just because the car was "dyno tuned", does not mean it was done correctly, regardless of what you paid. You should see of the "dyno tunes" we get in here to be repaired by a mail order tune.
Now the possible down sides are;
The car has a legitimate problem, there's no way for the tuner to know since it's not data logged. Such as excessive carbon build up, which is very common now in C5's.
The car was bought second hand and has an aftermarket MAF on it, the tune will be way off. Or the MAF is filthy dirty, that will make it run lean. Or any other situation like that, although rare compared to how many mail order tunes we do, it does and can happen. Naturally in that case we do what it takes to assist the customer in making it right, whatever that may be.
Hope that helps.
Doug, I must say, you are a great member to this site. I read through many posts during my searches before making my own, and you always make sure to take the time to give someone an answer. Granted, you are a vender and this is a product you offer, I feel like you give completely honest answers and it doesn't even seem like you are trying to push your product. When a business handles itself as classy as you do, I think it deserves a thank you
I sent you a message regarding my options working with you, thanks!
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DOUG @ ECS (07-11-2016)
07-09-2016, 04:34 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
So our mail order tunes are far from "a guess".
Now the possible down sides are;
The car has a legitimate problem, there's no way for the tuner to know since it's not data logged. Such as excessive carbon build up, which is very common now in C5's.
The car was bought second hand and has an aftermarket MAF on it, the tune will be way off. Or the MAF is filthy dirty, that will make it run lean. Or any other situation like that, although rare compared to how many mail order tunes we do, it does and can happen. Naturally in that case we do what it takes to assist the customer in making it right, whatever that may be.
Hope that helps.
Now the possible down sides are;
The car has a legitimate problem, there's no way for the tuner to know since it's not data logged. Such as excessive carbon build up, which is very common now in C5's.
The car was bought second hand and has an aftermarket MAF on it, the tune will be way off. Or the MAF is filthy dirty, that will make it run lean. Or any other situation like that, although rare compared to how many mail order tunes we do, it does and can happen. Naturally in that case we do what it takes to assist the customer in making it right, whatever that may be.
Hope that helps.
That being said, I think the mail order tune is a good option for the OP and his mods
BTW; I had the same experience as 95Z28. I sent my PCM off after installing headers and Vararam to a VERY respected source, installed it and ran 0-60 runs with my timing system to compare to pre-tune times, and picked up ZERO performance. Sent it back and the second time I picked up 3 tenths.