Originally Posted by gunnar@Patriot

By making changes in personel, we have greatly improved our QC in recent months. We have literally thousands of heads on the road today. As with many other companies, there have been a few customers that have had issues and if they are viable, we resolve them promptly. However, the customer must contact us before we begin to resolve any matter or else it is assumed that the customer has chosen his own best course of remedy.

Originally Posted by J-Rod

Price-wise, a fully prepped set of Patriot LS6 heads with Patriot stainless 2.08/1.60 valves, lists for $1595 at Scoggin-Dickey.

Now to that you'd need to upgrade the valves to a REV, or a Ferrea. So expect to add about $300.

Then, you'd need to have the valve job checked, setup height on the valves, etc... and probably touched up, as most of the valve jobs and set-up height on Patriot heads have needed some work. So expect $150-$300 for that.

$1595
$300
$150-$300
-----------
$2045-$2195

A set of similarly prepped AFR heads lists for $2189.

Zero dollars saved basically...



Now on to the discussions about how and what makes a port work. You've made some good point sin some respects. But you have failed to look at the most basic point of this entire discussion. Comparing flow numbers from different benches is a fools errand. It is completely meaningless. The only way I will comapre number for benches is if I take a set of heads to each bench, and can see the delta between benches. Even with the same operator, if you go from one bench to another, the flow changes. Its just a fact.

Now, as for what makes a good head.

The stuff I brought up is EXACTLY what makes good port. Looking at simple flow numbers is nice, but it isn't an absolute.


Let me cite a real world example.

Just like a dyno, even flowbench results can be skewed. I am not going to name the two heads that were tested, as I am not interested in get into a peeing match with shops about their heads or a he said, she said argument. This information is being posted as that, information. Use information like this to educate yourself, and make informdecisions. For the purpose of this test I will refer to the same vendors a Brand X and Brand Y.


In a test of Brand X heads vs Brand Y heads. Brand Y flows as well on the bench (as good as a Brand X), but don't seem to make the same power on the dyno,etc. From discussing it with the head porter, he was mentioning that Brand Y removes material in areas that will show a gain on the flow bench, but will not make anymore power on the dyno. He says they are big in the wrong spots and too small in others.
A set of Brand Y stage 2s 5.3l heads on a car that had all the bolt ons and a TR224 cam. It made 379/370 or so before adding the heads. After the heads, the car did 413/385 after tuning. A week before, Another car had a set of Brand X stage 2 5.3l heads on a car that already had the TR224 cam as well and the IDENTICAL mods as the other Brand Y car (FLPs, LS6 intake, ASP, stock rear/4:10s,etc). Both dynoed the exact same before swapping heads on (the curves practically overlayed oneanother). This car pulled 443/418 with the Brand Xs!
On the flow bench, the Brand Ys actually flowed better from .100-.550, while Brand X flowed slightly better past this. Same thing on the exhaust side. This just goes to show that a flow bench is an excellent tool, but not something that should be used as the determing factor in how a head will perform when put on a motor. The CC volumes were identical on the two heads, so compression difference wasn't an issue.


This doesn't even get into things like flows introducing air leaks. Using a checking spring that is too light on the exhaust (which causes it to open while flowing to pick up some airflow). Moving the head around on the fixture to unshroud the valve or to promote better airflow.


I mentioned discharge coefficent and you kinda blew that off. Here is a real world example of what I'm talking about...

You can increase the size of a valve, and increase flow, while still hurting a motors performance if you don't look at the discharge coefficent. Most folks always feel bigger is better.

It isn't.


I'll take a smaller higher velocity port over one that flows the same and is bigger (with lower velocity).

If you want, I'll post up some data to illustrate this.


But simply put the AFR is a better head than any ported stocker for basically the same price, or less...