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Old 06-09-2005, 06:08 PM   #1
Paras
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Default oversteer?

Just wanted to ask if it is considered oversteer if when from a stop, you take a left turn in first and when you add lot of power, the back starts to come around.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paras
Just wanted to ask if it is considered oversteer if when from a stop, you take a left turn in first and when you add lot of power, the back starts to come around.
I think any turning/cornering where the rear end is coming around is an oversteer condition. I'm pretty darn good at it now.....


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Old 06-09-2005, 07:18 PM   #3
FRCTony
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Power oversteer.
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Old 06-09-2005, 09:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRCTony
Power oversteer.
Yup. I agree. The front wheels have already been turned pretty far and when sudden power is applied, the rear end is now trying to come on around to catch up with the new direction you pointed the nose at. It's a bit different than what most people refer to when speaking of "oversteer". Power oversteer is usually deliberate. Most times the other variety is not.
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Old 06-09-2005, 10:20 PM   #5
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Well, I have a different phrase for it when making 90* turns on the street but that's just me.

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Old 06-09-2005, 10:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow01
Well, I have a different phrase for it when making 90* turns on the street but that's just me.

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Old 06-09-2005, 11:30 PM   #7
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I call it a ticket waiting to happen......5 points in MD with a bad cop or 1 point for just spining tires if good cop, hell no ticket is better. I just watch out for that crap now that i have _ _ points.....geuss how many
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneStarFRC
Yup. I agree. The front wheels have already been turned pretty far and when sudden power is applied, the rear end is now trying to come on around to catch up with the new direction you pointed the nose at. It's a bit different than what most people refer to when speaking of "oversteer". Power oversteer is usually deliberate. Most times the other variety is not.
Maybe my first post wasn't written right but I'm putting the power down as fast as I can right from the go and then turning left and then straightening out as I finish the turn but if I put down enough power, the rear will start coming around too fast and I have to try and straighten it out quicker. I guess that this is not really oversteer and actually "power oversteer" as you're saying cause I'm making it do that... I would however like to be less able to do that or better said, I'd like to be able to put more power down and just push forward without having the rear give way... Suggestions?
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:32 AM   #9
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What you are describing does not fit the "traditional" term of "oversteer".

Oversteer is when you are going through, say, a constant radius corner, at the limit, and the first end to break away is the rear.

Not sure you can do much about your "condition", other than modulating the throttle better, or buying sticky tires, or do what I sometimes do, let the traction control module roll it back for you.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man

Oversteer is when you are going through, say, a constant radius corner, at the limit, and the first end to break away is the rear.
That is the correct definition per Skip Barber's "Going Faster" DVD (yes I have it )


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Old 06-10-2005, 09:38 AM   #11
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Oversteer is when the passenger is scared.

Understeer is when the driver is scared.



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Old 06-10-2005, 09:52 AM   #12
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Paras,

I'm not sure what you are truly after, but to be honest, what you describe is the hallmark of any high torque rear wheel drive car. THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION, more traction. This can be maximized by different spring rates, shock valving or most easily by wider/stickier tires.

I will caution you however, that altering suspension to be able to apply max power in a left hand turn from 0-40 on the street will not assist you in making a left hand turn at 90 on a track, they are different animals.

For what you describe I'd say get a nice soft rear spring and some shocks with slower rebound and your car will squat like mad and you'll be able to take off...because in this event you really are only discussing rear traction. You will however loose front traction and a setup like this will do nothing for holding you in a turn where you need to maximize traction of all four wheels, aka true handling on a race track.

My point is you can tune anything to maximize a specific application, but you'll sacrifice alot of other stuff.

Before I tracked my car, every fast left turn I took I thought wow I'm so cool, this car can really turn fast. Ha! I'm now embarrased I ever felt that way. My learning curve that first day on the track was absurdly steep. Street turns, no matter how fast are so completely different it's rediculous.

My advice, tune your car for REAL performance driving, take it to the track and really see what it can do. In most places you can get on a track for ~$200 for a weekend and we all spend more than that on mods some weekends.

And leave the power oversteer for the track. Every month we hear someone sideswiping a curb because they used too much of the happy pedal in a turn on the street...
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paras
Maybe my first post wasn't written right but I'm putting the power down as fast as I can right from the go and then turning left and then straightening out as I finish the turn but if I put down enough power, the rear will start coming around too fast and I have to try and straighten it out quicker. I guess that this is not really oversteer and actually "power oversteer" as you're saying cause I'm making it do that... I would however like to be less able to do that or better said, I'd like to be able to put more power down and just push forward without having the rear give way... Suggestions?
Depeniding on the track or set of roads you are useing. Sounds more like you lift your right foot in the corner a bit turn and that causes the rear to get light and swing around.

1. do all your braking in straight lines. do not go full thottle into a corner, brake before the corner so that when you are just about to enter or turn the steering wheel you are at your slowest speed for that corner. as you enter the corner slowlly acelorate until you pass the apex of the corner then again slowly roll your right foot down ( more thottle ) This is called " slow in, fast out" for cornering speeds.

Most ppl see the rear end of a car come around as they left the accelorate ( remove power to the rear wheels) or just dont know how to corner. ANyone can learn to go fast in straight lines ( yes I have drag raced) but learning to go fast around corners take lots of skill.

This is where a High performance Drivers Event ( with instuctor not just open track time) will help eveyone learn the skill to corner properly and quickly.

Have fun out there and be safe
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:03 PM   #14
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Thanks for all your comments!
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paras
Thanks for all your comments!
Hmmm.... any "drifting" aspirations here?

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Old 06-10-2005, 05:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneStarFRC
Hmmm.... any "drifting" aspirations here?

Maaaaybeeee... :o
Naw just trying to understand cars more... I just went through a bit of water yesterday morning and then made a left in a parking lot and the car started to go sideways at very low speed/throttle...
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Old 06-10-2005, 06:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paras
Maaaaybeeee... :o
Naw just trying to understand cars more... I just went through a bit of water yesterday morning and then made a left in a parking lot and the car started to go sideways at very low speed/throttle...
Sounds like you've been driving front wheel drive cars

Active Handling/Traction control works. Just make sure you look and point the car where you want to go...


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Old 06-10-2005, 07:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRCTony
Sounds like you've been driving front wheel drive cars

Active Handling/Traction control works. Just make sure you look and point the car where you want to go...

Correct! I exclusively drove front wheel drive cars for about 12 years before I got my current Vette and handling is different to say the least. I do trust AH/TC--most of the time, if I take a turn hard, I'll see it blip on the display for a sec and then turn off and you don't even notice the help... =)
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Old 06-11-2005, 12:22 AM   #19
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"Throttle Oversteer" , aka power oversteer, aka fishtail

Power/Throttle Oversteer is your friend.
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:17 AM   #20
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Throttle oversteer can quickly turn into drop throttle over steer when the driver reacts to the rear sliding by lifting his/her foot to quickly. Usually you get a tank slapper type of reaction where the car swings back the other way and then comes back again as the driver tries to correct but is too slow with the corrections. This usually ends up in an impact with a curb or other obstruction. I watched a Z06 owner do it last year in the Home Depot parking lot where the local car people meet on Saturday nights.
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:17 AM
 
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