JWXTREME

I drove to work this morning with no problems, when I left for lunch my car wouldn't start. I've read threads all day long about people having the same problems, tried everything I possibly could, and still can't get it fixed. Sorry in advance if any of this seems repetitive. I have a 99 FRC, car gets complete power, but will not crank over. The security light flashes. The same thing happened very briefly about a year ago. I fixed it by using my spare key. I haven't had the problem again until today.

I immediately had my wife bring my spare key but that didn't fix it this time. I tried cleaning both keys with alcohol and blowing out the ignition switch. I pulled the codes and the only thing I got was a B2723 (Pass Key Detection Circuit). I reset the codes and waited but still nothing. I tried disconecting the battery hoping it might reset and it did nothing. I checked all of the BCM fuses and they are fine. After I put the fuses back in I did get the "remove key for 10 seconds" message twice. This is the first time I've ever got it. I've never had problems with the column lock, and don't have the bypass installled.

I went back to the car atleast twenty times today within eight hours and still get the same results. I know sometimes people say wait ten minutes. My car does leak on the passengers side floor, and I have the same problems with the windshield wipers with a "mind of there own" which have finally stopped working all together. Is it possible I have corrosion somewhere which is preventing something from recognizing the key's resistor? I'm really starting to get frustrated with this car, and all of the typical problems the c5's seem to have. I really don't want to take it to the dealership, and I don't think I need to buy a new key. I don't care about the VATS system, and I wish I didn't have it. Any suggestions on how to get this thing started is appreciated. Thanks!

ICUALL

Pull the necessary covers to get to the ignition switch. You will see a wire like the one shown in this picture

Disconnect the plug.
Wire a resistor the same value as the pellet in your key (use a ohm meter to read the pellet) to the side of the plug that goes to the pcm. Not the side shown in the pic !

put it all back together, leave the female plug disconnected and never have to worry about the VATS on the key again !!!!!

Bill Dearborn

Check the resistor circuit connections at BCM connector C1 Pins A3 and B2 plus Connector C3 Pins A and B on the ignition lock cylinder. In addtion to the Pass Key resistor circuit you could have a problem with the BCM power or ground wiring. Check BCM connector C1 Pin A9, SP208 Pins K and G, G104, BCM connector C3 Pin A2, SP202 Pin B, G202 for grounds. Check BCM connectors C1 Pin A4 and C3 Pin A4 for proper voltage to the module.

Bill

JWXTREME

Thanks for the quick replies! I like the idea of removing the system so I won't have to keep dealing with this. Is there a link with detailed step by step instructions like ICUALL is describing? If not I should be able to figure it out. I just don't want to permantely damage annything.

Bill,

Is there a diagram where I can locate the connections discussed, or are they labeled in some way? I just need to know where to start looking. I'll give it a try.

Thanks again for both of your help!

Billf6531

Perhaps this will help:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...72&postcount=5

JWXTREME

Ok, so far I've tried to replace the switch with a resistor. I hope I have the right size. I went to radio shack and the measured the pellet @ 1.466 kilohms, my second key was 1.469. The guy at radioshack sold me 1k ohm 1/2 watt 5% tolerance and some 47-ohm 1/2 watt 5% tolerance resistors. Are these the correct size to use? Is there a certain way to reset the system once I've installed the resistor?

I completely removed the BCM and check all of the connections for corrosion and didn't notice any problems.

I tried Billf6531's suggestion on resetting the system. I followed the directions, the security light was flashing and then would go steady and finally go away after about ten minutes. I did this three times like the instructons said. The car still doesn't do anything. But after the third time the security light no longer comes back on????

I'm getting all kinds of codes now that I've tried all of these things. Could it be something else besides the VATS system? Any help is appreciated!

Billf6531

Post the codes, especially the ones that end in C, for current problems.

Here's a site that will interpret the code(s):

http://www.stengel.net/diccodes.htm

JWXTREME

I can get the security light to flash again.

The codes I'm pulling are:

P1631 HC Theft deterrent system pass incorrect

B2722 H Pass Key detection circuit

U1160 H Loss of communications with RDCM

dgrant3830

If it isn't the resistor sensing system, another possibility looms. There is a hidden password that is communicated back and forth between the PCM and BCM. If the password doesn't match what the two computers are expecting, it will prevent the car from starting. There is a specific and long process to force them to re-learn this hidden password. The process is in the technical manuals. The other way is to simply have it towed to the dealer so they can use a Tech II on it.

Billf6531

P1631 is your problem, since it's a C (current) code. Try the relearn again, then the resistors if that fails, and then I'm afraid that the next solution is a tow.

Bill Dearborn

Here are some pictures showing the locations of the components.

Base of RH A Pillar

(1) C202
(2) C200
(3) G202
(4) SP202

Right Hand foot well behind removable panel.

(1) Theft Deterrent Relay
(2) Fuse Block-IP
(3) Blower Motor Relay
(4) Star Connector #2
(5) Body Control Module (BCM) C3
(6) Body Control Module (BCM) C1
(7) Star Connector #1
(8) Body Control Module (BCM) C2
(9) Steering Column Lock Relay

Bill

87SAM

How did you try connecting the resistors, in series or parallel? In parallel you could be looking at 5-15 total ohms depending on the number of 47 ohmers used. I think you could come up with a better combination.

Y2Kvert4me

This is a chart of all the resistance values used:




You have a #6 it looks like. A single 1.5k resistor should do the trick and fall into the acceptable resistance range.



If the radio shack guy sold you a 1k, and 47 ohm resistors....you'd need 10 of the 47s and the 1k all wired in series to make the correct value.

KOZ

You have the wrong resistors....

-KOZ

JWXTREME

Thanks for everyone's input. I was sure I had the wrong resistors. I was just installing them into the connector by pushing one end down into behind the contact and looping the opposite end down into the second contact. Is this how I should do it? After I install the resistors do I have to do the relearn process, or should the car just start up?

I will go back though and check all of the connections for corrosion and clean them. Thanks for all of the diagrams, they should help out a lot.

Could it possibly be something else? Could I need a new ignition? If I send it back to the dealer what can they do to bypass it?

87SAM

Sounds like you were installing them in parallel. You need series which is connecting each resistor together to make a "string”, then connect each end of the string into the connector. You really just need to find one or two resistors of the correct value, other wise you will end up with a wad of resistors.

ICUALL

1. The issue could be the cylinder lock NOT the actual Ignition switch. These are 2 different creatures. The picture I posted earilier is the complete assembly.

2. Since you determined your resistance is 1.466 and 1.469 you would be able to use the 1 Kohm in series with a 470 ohm to bypass the key pellet check. These must be in SERIES (#1) 1Kohm + (#2) 470 Ohm = 1.47 K

One side of cable -----Resistor 1 ---- Resistor 2---- other side of cable.

3. Reset the code P1361. Turn off the key, insert the 2 resistors IN series across the cable.

4. turn the key back to the on position and then try to crank the engine
If it will not crank recheck to see if the code is back.

5. No code the issue is somewhere other than the ignition switch (assuming the resistors are in series across the connect NOT leading to the key assembly !)

6. Refer to Bill's pictures and start looking in the footwell area. Check the #1 Relay shown for voltage using a meter. If all seems fine there check the #9 (steering column lock relay)

7. It may be that you will save effort BUT spend LOTS more money by returning it to the dealer for diagnostics and repair.

JWXTREME

I connected a 1.5K resistor and got nothing. Once the resistor was in place I checked for codes a couple of times and didn't get any. I disconnected the reisistor and left the ignition plug open and I got the
code again. I'm now assuming it's something else. Tomorrow I will check the #1 and #9 relays. Thanks for the help!

ICUALL

Did the engine crank with the resistor in place ? If you did not have the code with the resistor in place then the VATS system was working properly with the bypass. That means the Vats issue is the "feelers" in the lock cylinder. Leave the resistor in place and look elsewhere for your starting issue.

JWXTREME

Nope, the engine didn't crank with the resistor in place. If i send it to the dealer how are they going to determine what the problem is? Are there codes that won't show up on the DIC? Any suggestions on what I should start replacing? Do the relays, and BCM go bad? How complicated is it to change the ignition?