Turn key - 1 click, then nothing...
11-26-2007, 12:50 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Turn key - 1 click, then nothing...
It did this to me the other day, and I pulled the key, made a phone call, put the key back in and it started.
Today - no luck. I opened the hood and checked the battery connections which seemed fine. Got back in the car, turned key to first position and all systems came one with key in first position, turned to start - 1 click, then nothing. Pulled key, now the car seems dead...
It's obviously electrical in nature -- it almost seems like a battery cable is loose, but they weren't. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Vaughn
Today - no luck. I opened the hood and checked the battery connections which seemed fine. Got back in the car, turned key to first position and all systems came one with key in first position, turned to start - 1 click, then nothing. Pulled key, now the car seems dead...
It's obviously electrical in nature -- it almost seems like a battery cable is loose, but they weren't. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Vaughn
11-26-2007, 01:12 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Is your "security" light on steady or is it flashing?
If it's flashing this indicates a VATS problem, if the light is on steady then I'd say your battery is weak and needs a jump.
If it's flashing this indicates a VATS problem, if the light is on steady then I'd say your battery is weak and needs a jump.
11-26-2007, 01:20 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hmmm... Good ? I'll have to check it. I got a ride back to work since I got stranded at lunch. With the key in the first position, everything 'powered up' normally like the battery was fine (unlike when the battery is low on juice the power-up seems weak). Only when I turn it to ignition does it click once, then die. Also, I noticed when I was under the hood checking battery connections, the underhood light was not on at first, but then came on... I'm guessing there's a short somewhere -- could it be at the starter? BTW, pardon the dumb question, but what's VATS?
11-26-2007, 01:40 PM
#4
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VATS is the pill that is in your key. If it gets funky it causes problems. Clean it with alcohol.
What you describe though seems to be a a bad connection, battery to starter.
Try loosening and then tightening your post leads and if it isn't that check your + battery connection to the starter. They corrode or break. If this is the case, clean off the corrosion if corroded or replace the lead if broken.
What you describe though seems to be a a bad connection, battery to starter.
Try loosening and then tightening your post leads and if it isn't that check your + battery connection to the starter. They corrode or break. If this is the case, clean off the corrosion if corroded or replace the lead if broken.
11-26-2007, 01:42 PM
#5
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St. Jude Donor '09
General Information
The Pass-Key, Pass-Key II, or VATS, as it's called in earlier GM vehicles, uses a resistor mounted in the key blank to confirm that the correct ignition key is being used to start the engine. Many people call the resistor pellet a "chip" due to the common misconception that it is some sophisticated digital circuit to identify the key to the car. Not quite. It is not a “chip” of silicon as is customarily used for integrated circuits, but merely a block of carbon appropriately sized to have a desired electrical resistance.
GM mixed about fifteen different resistance values in their pinning codes to add another factor to make vehicle theft more difficult. The resistor blocks are staked into the key bodies, just between the key bow and pinning cuts. If you desire a replacement key for a VATS equipped vehicle, they are available through almost any GM dealership. These are usually priced about 3 times higher than the same key can be purchased at any reputable locksmith. If you have a VOM (multimeter), you can measure the resistance of the pellet and inform the locksmith of the blank you will need, or simply allow them to test and match it.
The Pass-Key, Pass-Key II, or VATS, as it's called in earlier GM vehicles, uses a resistor mounted in the key blank to confirm that the correct ignition key is being used to start the engine. Many people call the resistor pellet a "chip" due to the common misconception that it is some sophisticated digital circuit to identify the key to the car. Not quite. It is not a “chip” of silicon as is customarily used for integrated circuits, but merely a block of carbon appropriately sized to have a desired electrical resistance.
GM mixed about fifteen different resistance values in their pinning codes to add another factor to make vehicle theft more difficult. The resistor blocks are staked into the key bodies, just between the key bow and pinning cuts. If you desire a replacement key for a VATS equipped vehicle, they are available through almost any GM dealership. These are usually priced about 3 times higher than the same key can be purchased at any reputable locksmith. If you have a VOM (multimeter), you can measure the resistance of the pellet and inform the locksmith of the blank you will need, or simply allow them to test and match it.
11-26-2007, 02:20 PM
#6
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Start with the small stuff first.
1. Are terminals tight?
2. After you get the one "click", does everything go dead or dimmer and stay that way?
3. Have you checked your battery voltage?
Look to these areas first. A battery with a dead cell acts much the same yours is now. It will give enough juice to power accesories, but not enough to start the car.
Remember the KISS method of diagnostics.....Keep It Simple Stupid.
Good luck and let us know what it is.
1. Are terminals tight?
2. After you get the one "click", does everything go dead or dimmer and stay that way?
3. Have you checked your battery voltage?
Look to these areas first. A battery with a dead cell acts much the same yours is now. It will give enough juice to power accesories, but not enough to start the car.
Remember the KISS method of diagnostics.....Keep It Simple Stupid.
Good luck and let us know what it is.
11-26-2007, 02:30 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
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It did this to me the other day, and I pulled the key, made a phone call, put the key back in and it started.
Today - no luck. I opened the hood and checked the battery connections which seemed fine. Got back in the car, turned key to first position and all systems came one with key in first position, turned to start - 1 click, then nothing. Pulled key, now the car seems dead...
It's obviously electrical in nature -- it almost seems like a battery cable is loose, but they weren't. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Vaughn
Today - no luck. I opened the hood and checked the battery connections which seemed fine. Got back in the car, turned key to first position and all systems came one with key in first position, turned to start - 1 click, then nothing. Pulled key, now the car seems dead...
It's obviously electrical in nature -- it almost seems like a battery cable is loose, but they weren't. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Vaughn
You need a new battery.
11-26-2007, 03:27 PM
#9
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St. Jude Donor '08
Start with the small stuff first.
1. Are terminals tight?
2. After you get the one "click", does everything go dead or dimmer and stay that way?
3. Have you checked your battery voltage?
Look to these areas first. A battery with a dead cell acts much the same yours is now. It will give enough juice to power accesories, but not enough to start the car.
Remember the KISS method of diagnostics.....Keep It Simple Stupid.
Good luck and let us know what it is.
1. Are terminals tight?
2. After you get the one "click", does everything go dead or dimmer and stay that way?
3. Have you checked your battery voltage?
Look to these areas first. A battery with a dead cell acts much the same yours is now. It will give enough juice to power accesories, but not enough to start the car.
Remember the KISS method of diagnostics.....Keep It Simple Stupid.
Good luck and let us know what it is.
Start at the battery! Remove the cables and use a hand held VOLT METER to read the voltage directly on the battery terminals! If the battery is good, you should see no less than 12.00 VDC. A new battery will read 12.6 VDC If your seeing much less, the battery is either low on charge or bad. Clean the battery post and battery terminals. TORQUE the terminals on to the battery to 11 ft/lbs. This is very important. Then have some one START the car while your reading the battery terminals with the volt meter. If the battery is bad, you will see the voltage drop VERY LOW! If it is good, it shouldn't drop much lower than 11 VDC.
You don't have a SHORT! When you think of an electrical short, think of SMOKE and Blown Fuses.
You would be more correct to say you have a bad connection in the circuit. Bad connections will allow low amounts of battery current pass but when the demand for high current is present the circuit heats up and fails. Sometime a bad connection can also smoke due to the high current trying to flow through a very poor connection.
Give me a call if you dont figure this out soon!
BC
11-26-2007, 05:13 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the responses folks. I think you're on the right track. Here's some more strangeness to add to the mystery.
I went back out to the car (wife met me with some tools). Turned the key to first position - powered up, then turned to ignition, one click, then completely dead, as before.
Pop hood. Underhood light is off. Wiggle ground cable to battery slightly, underhood light comes back on. Tighten ground lug ever so slightly (MAYBE 1/10th of a turn - wouldn't go any more than that). Get back in car - starts right up...
Here's where it gets weirder... Car is running -- DIC shows Pull Key Wait 10 Seconds. [I installed the CoH CLB 3 years ago and no problems since.] Now I try to drive car, car stalls. Start up again, same DIC message, same result. Do this about 5 more times to get it into a new parking space. Turn car off, and swear under breath... Wait 10 seconds, start car up, no weird DIC message, drive away.
So now I drive to Autozone because it's dark and they can more easily test the battery. Battery test shows battery is good, though 'slightly low on charge.' Alternator checks as good. Try to start her up after alternator test, guess what? One click, then completely dead.
Pop the hood again, no u-h light. Touch ground cable slightly. U-h light comes on. Check tightness of ground lug and it's perfectly snug, HOWEVER with some force I could rotate the cable slightly around the lug, but nothing was loose. So I disconnect the ground lug. Lug appears fine, not cross-threaded. Pull back boot, all appears fine. Leave boot pulled back, carefully thread lug back in and tighten. Now I cannot rotate the cable as before but that seems to be more from the boot not being fully seated around the cable 'washer' connector.
Car starts up again, with no problems. Back at work now. Let's see if I can make it home tonight.
Obviously something weird is happening to cause the Pull Key Wait 10 Seconds, but I can't seem to duplicate that now. Is it possible the ground post could be loose inside the battery? I had the Autozone guy test the battery using that post (although the cables weren't disconnected).
I appreciate all the help. I know we have some real electrical experts here!
I went back out to the car (wife met me with some tools). Turned the key to first position - powered up, then turned to ignition, one click, then completely dead, as before.
Pop hood. Underhood light is off. Wiggle ground cable to battery slightly, underhood light comes back on. Tighten ground lug ever so slightly (MAYBE 1/10th of a turn - wouldn't go any more than that). Get back in car - starts right up...
Here's where it gets weirder... Car is running -- DIC shows Pull Key Wait 10 Seconds. [I installed the CoH CLB 3 years ago and no problems since.] Now I try to drive car, car stalls. Start up again, same DIC message, same result. Do this about 5 more times to get it into a new parking space. Turn car off, and swear under breath... Wait 10 seconds, start car up, no weird DIC message, drive away.
So now I drive to Autozone because it's dark and they can more easily test the battery. Battery test shows battery is good, though 'slightly low on charge.' Alternator checks as good. Try to start her up after alternator test, guess what? One click, then completely dead.
Pop the hood again, no u-h light. Touch ground cable slightly. U-h light comes on. Check tightness of ground lug and it's perfectly snug, HOWEVER with some force I could rotate the cable slightly around the lug, but nothing was loose. So I disconnect the ground lug. Lug appears fine, not cross-threaded. Pull back boot, all appears fine. Leave boot pulled back, carefully thread lug back in and tighten. Now I cannot rotate the cable as before but that seems to be more from the boot not being fully seated around the cable 'washer' connector.
Car starts up again, with no problems. Back at work now. Let's see if I can make it home tonight.
Obviously something weird is happening to cause the Pull Key Wait 10 Seconds, but I can't seem to duplicate that now. Is it possible the ground post could be loose inside the battery? I had the Autozone guy test the battery using that post (although the cables weren't disconnected).
I appreciate all the help. I know we have some real electrical experts here!
Last edited by JohnTheStigGalt; 11-26-2007 at 05:15 PM.
11-26-2007, 05:28 PM
#11
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St. Jude Donor '08
That 11 ft/lb torque is very important! If it is torqued to 11 ft/lbs,,you shouldnt be able to rotate the cables and will have proper compression on the terminal to main the connection..
The PULL KEY message could have been caused by the BCM being wacked out from loosing power a bunch of times. I recommend you CLEAR all the DTCs (there will probably be a ton of them
) and see if the weird thing clear up. Once you clear the DTC, drive the car and check them later to be sure your code free.
Glad you narrowed it down!
Bill C
The PULL KEY message could have been caused by the BCM being wacked out from loosing power a bunch of times. I recommend you CLEAR all the DTCs (there will probably be a ton of them
) and see if the weird thing clear up. Once you clear the DTC, drive the car and check them later to be sure your code free.Glad you narrowed it down!
Bill C
11-26-2007, 05:34 PM
#12
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Did you check the ground cable connection to the main ground? That could be the culprit as well. When you move the ground cable, it moves the connecion and "magically" fixes problem....until it works loose again. Another area to look at, since you have it norrowed down.
Also, what type of battery is it? You haven't said.
Also, what type of battery is it? You haven't said.
11-26-2007, 06:52 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
That 11 ft/lb torque is very important! If it is torqued to 11 ft/lbs,,you shouldnt be able to rotate the cables and will have proper compression on the terminal to main the connection..
The PULL KEY message could have been caused by the BCM being wacked out from loosing power a bunch of times. I recommend you CLEAR all the DTCs (there will probably be a ton of them ) and see if the weird thing clear up. Once you clear the DTC, drive the car and check them later to be sure your code free.
Glad you narrowed it down!
Bill C
The PULL KEY message could have been caused by the BCM being wacked out from loosing power a bunch of times. I recommend you CLEAR all the DTCs (there will probably be a ton of them
) and see if the weird thing clear up. Once you clear the DTC, drive the car and check them later to be sure your code free.Glad you narrowed it down!
Bill C
That pesky AH-TC issue that I've read all your posts on, but haven't taken the time to REALLY trouble shoot. I've been without traction control for so long, I'd probably freak out if it kicked in... Car started after work with no issues and the headlights seemed brighter on the way home. I think you all figured it out.Did you check the ground cable connection to the main ground? That could be the culprit as well. When you move the ground cable, it moves the connecion and "magically" fixes problem....until it works loose again. Another area to look at, since you have it norrowed down.
Also, what type of battery is it? You haven't said.
Also, what type of battery is it? You haven't said.
Thanks again for all the input guys. This forum is the greatest!
Vaughn
11-26-2007, 07:48 PM
#14
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Thanks Bill! 11 ft/lbs - check! I'm afraid I haven't been 'code free' for a while... That pesky AH-TC issue that I've read all your posts on, but haven't taken the time to REALLY trouble shoot. I've been without traction control for so long, I'd probably freak out if it kicked in... Car started after work with no issues and the headlights seemed brighter on the way home. I think you all figured it out.
I'll be spending some time this weekend finally attempting to track some of these issues down. The summer and fall were CRAZY for working hours -- should be settling down now hopefully. I suspect you're right that there are other grounding issues. It's an Exide Orbital battery btw. I haven't had any problems with it before this - had it since January I think.
Thanks again for all the input guys. This forum is the greatest!
Vaughn
That pesky AH-TC issue that I've read all your posts on, but haven't taken the time to REALLY trouble shoot. I've been without traction control for so long, I'd probably freak out if it kicked in... Car started after work with no issues and the headlights seemed brighter on the way home. I think you all figured it out.I'll be spending some time this weekend finally attempting to track some of these issues down. The summer and fall were CRAZY for working hours -- should be settling down now hopefully. I suspect you're right that there are other grounding issues. It's an Exide Orbital battery btw. I haven't had any problems with it before this - had it since January I think.
Thanks again for all the input guys. This forum is the greatest!
Vaughn
You post the DTCs you have once you get back on the road and I will post the troubleshooting procedures! DEAL?
Dont make me throw a MOD party here in Groton the get you to FIX this issue!
BC
BC
