LF97C5Vette

So I was tired of my sticky clutch syndrome. (High RPM Shifts leave Clutch Pedal on the Floor... had to triple and quadruple pump it to build enough pressure to continue driving...) And decided to try swapping the master and slave as it seems to have fixed the problem for some people. It's stupid how much crap has to come out for this, but here are some pics. Worked from 8pm to about 1AM on it Friday night. Then noon to 7 on Saturday, when we finished...

Work Space.


Tunnel w/o Cradle, Diff, Tranny, and Torque Tube.


All Crap Removed! w00t!


All the Crap! lol


And the Slave... finally... you can see how we had to Cut the braided line because the "Quick Disconnect" was not so f**king "quick"...



That was all done on Friday night... Saturday We installed the new Master Cylinder and Slave cylinder w/ Remote Bleeder, then began reinstalling everything... The hard part was getting the whole deal back under the car, avoiding harness and stuff, and once we did, getting all the harness hooked back up. Once that was done, it's pretty straight forward mostly...

I used Dope's writeup from Cajun Dudes website, which was really helpful and covered everything I needed except one PITA thing. My car was an older model and had the EBCM in the back... This meant extra brake lines and more crap in the rear to deal w/ maneuvering around. We had to disconnect the EBCM and suspend it while wiggling the differential under it.



I also wrapped the lines on the master, slave, and the remote bleeder I installed with some reflective backed, cloth heat shield... rather liberally too, and ran with Motul 600 fluid... hopefully any heat related issue's won't come back this way... The test drive was successful, Sticky Clutch pedal gone!

Now, I've got the slave on my work bench... I was thinking about taking it apart and seeing if there was anything physically wrong with it since it's a sticky pedal slave... Any ideas how to disassemble it? And/Or any experiments to test it?

-Dan

BADMFR

That's a lot of work to not put a new clutch in while you're at it.

LF97C5Vette

The clutch was installed like 20k miles ago when i put the 4.10 rear in... There was really no need to replace it... Although I thought about it...

And now, if the clutch does need replacing I know I can do it myself w/o paying a shop...

-Dan

AMRAAM

I ran into the same thing with the EBCM. It really seemed to complicate things.

rickkym

When I did my clutch I skipped doing the slave, which meant less than 5000 miles later I got to take the whole thing apart again. On my 97 I just used wire to hold up the ebcm it wasn't that bad. The slave dissconnect gave me fits when I did the clutch, but when I went back and did the slave it came right apart which made me think it was worn or bad but its been fine.

To get the slave apart I just blew compressed air into the fluid connection. You'll get a rubber doughnut and I'm curious if you get a metal shim or not. I swear mine didn't have one. The rubber doughnut is the piston for the slave cylinder. I'm conviced the blackening of the fluid is this 'piston' wearing down since my black clutch fluid had what looked like rubber particles in it too.

Since the slave swap my fluid has stayed crystal clear but I'm sure it's a matter of time. I don't know if motool will detieriorate the rubber faster or not be interesting to know.

How hard was it to get the master out? I looked at taking the roll pin out to replace the upper part of the clutch line and gave up because I don't 'have the hands of a small child'

AMRAAM

I had trouble with the disconnect between the slave and master as well. I ended up using a pair of diagonal cuts to cut the braided hose on the slave side since I was replacing it anyway.

The master cylinder is pretty easy if you can get the disconnect apart. Just seperate that disconnection, pull the pin that holds the rod to the pedal and pull it off the pedal. Grab the master and twist it counter clockwise while pulling outward. The hose will come with it. Once the master is out, the pin is pretty easy to get out.

LF97C5Vette

Yeah - The master was pretty easy... it would help to have child hands for sure, but it's doable w/o... lol.

I also cut the line on the slave side, but I was replacing both master and slave so i didn't really care.

One interesting note. I had no clutch problems until after my H/C/I swap and Tune, then it was a nightmare... Prior to that I hadn't been paying attention to my fluid... which after the tune looked like coffee... So i did Ranger's turkey baste method until it was crystal clear, unfortunately it didn't help. When I did this slave swap, the master was full of crystal clear fluid but when i cut the line, black fluid came out... pretty clear that the fluid wasn't circulating at all... Now with the remote bleeder, any discoloration to the fluid I'll flush the whole system...

-Dan

AMRAAM

I also did the turkeyt baster method a while ago as well. it was clear, and I haven't seen any evidence of dark fluid again either. And I still have the sticky pedal issue. I'm hoping with the new slave the problem will be solved.

LF97C5Vette

Yeah - So far it has resolved my issue! When you get yours replaced, i HIGHLY recommend a remote bleeder and if Ranger is right about contamination and Heat being a problem, I also recommend taking the extra precaution i did and insulating your hydraulic lines.

This is the first time since my H/C/I swap autumn last year that i've been able to romp through the gears at redline... It's renewed my excitement for driving this car!!


-Dan

AMRAAM

glad to hear it helped and it gives me some hope that it will fix mine. I have already replaced my Clutch, slave cyl and Release bearing. I did slide the remote bleeder through the reflective mataerial I had around my wideband harness, but that is the only thing I wrapped. Maybe I'll se what else I can get wrapped without removing anything. Yeah...good luck with that.

02gt350

what kinda clutch you have? cuz if its a stocker, your gonna be pissed when it falls to the floor again..slave and master have nothing to do with it

LF97C5Vette

It's a new LUK LS6 Clutch that I've put maybe 20k miles on.

I can't see how you can say the Slave/Master have nothing to do with it, when I replaced only the slave and master and the problem is gone. Do you know something I don't about how the Clutch causes the issue?

I've done a lot of reading on the issue, and have considered all the theories, from heat, contamination, leaking rubber piston, over centering, master problems, etc...

Maybe you can explain to me how a clutch problem could cause my Slave Cylinder to malfunction? Some option I didn't consider perhaps?

I Hope to god my clutch doesn't stick to the floor again, it's really irritating when i have to pump 3 times between shifts... lol

-Dan

zeevette

He says that,because lots of guys have replaced all the hydraulics, and the clutch, only to have the "sticking" problem resurface after about 2-5000 miles. Only if you replace the clutch with an aftermarket one does this seem to never re-occur. Of course, the higher your RWHP, the more likely you are to have this problem. It may not be PRIMARILY the slave OR the clutch, but some unholy combination that causes this problem. Even the condition of the fluid is a factor.

LF97C5Vette

Yeah - From what I've seen the single largest contributing factor is the fluid. I'm hoping that with heat protection, and maybe even regular flushes I can minimize my risk of the problem returning.

The idea occurred to me that this problem is the result of a series of failing components. My hope is that through regular maintenance of the fluid, and a brand new slave, i'll be able to get another 50k miles out of this combination before anything starts going down hill.

And if my pedal sticks to the floor again - I'll buy a new clutch/slave and do it all over... it only takes a couple days. Though my friend has a Z06 and similar whp numbers and never had a problem with his LS6 clutch sticking on the floor...

-Dan

zeevette

I didn't have the problem, either, until I did the "Ranger" method flush. After the H/C, and break-in, I had a few opportunities to shift at redline, without difficulties. I then added a ported FAST 90/LS2 combo, and before dynoing, decided to flush the clutch fluid, ( about 10 times,to avoid problems....right!) From that moment on, I couldn't rev to redline, and shift without it sticking. The clutch even started to slip a little when I put it on a dyno. I can't say for sure, which triggered the problem, the extra HP, or the fluid flush, but it made me replace a perfectly good clutch at only 9000 miles of very easy driving. No drag racing at all, BTW. At 477 RWHP and 429RWTQ SAE corrected

LF97C5Vette

Hmm, Interesting. Mine was perfectly fine (at 323 whp no tune, some bolt ons) until i did the H/C/I swap, then it was shot (400whp) But the Clutch never slipped, it was always rock solid. Whenever the pedal would stick down, the clutch wouldn't disengage... Or if i reved it at a stop light, then put it in gear and went to drive off, the clutch would bite RIGHT off the ground, and half the throw would be squishy... Until i pumped it back up.

When I get home I'm going to wrap my headers and cats with heat wrap. My cats sit RIGHT under the slave, and probably don't help...

-Dan

jbauch357

funny, I never had any issues with the stock clutch in my '02 Z06 at 380 RWHP (SAE corrected) until I started screwing with the clutch fluid...

02gt350

ah ok. despite all the reading and the changing of clutch fluid every 4 miles.....what I have seen first hand is....ditch the stocker clutch. I have a tex with stock master and slave...no pedal issues at all.

02gt350

where do you shift at?

jbauch357

if I am pushing hard I'll bring it up to 6,500 or so before shifting - the car keeps making power up to 6,700 but I don't see any reason to try and touch the rev-limit...

normal driving I'll hit 4,500 tops - no reason to go any higher than that unless I have open road in front of me...