...where to start. SALVAGE VEHICLE
11-24-2009, 04:52 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
...where to start. SALVAGE VEHICLE
Well, it's a long story. I bought a salvage 2002 LS1 vette with flood damage. I looked it over pretty well, and it's not quite as bad as it might sound, but it is a project. No water made it to the interior, they just managed to hydroplane the car into a culvert along a highway. Mechanically I think I'm in decent shape....but electrically....
At some point, the PCM and TAC modules were ripped loose from the car. The harnesses to both were cut and both the PCM and TAC modules were no longer with the car. I've spent the last few weeks piecing all (116) of the wires back together in the proper order, new connectors, a programmed PCM, used TAC, etc.
The problem I have right now is that I still can't get the car to crank, plus a few other items. My suspicion is the BCM managed to also get wet, or at least suffer some type of surge during the accident.
I've still got NO control of the power windows, the radio is blank, no courtesy lights on the rearview, no rear hatch operation, and those are just the ones that are obvious. I DO have control of the seats, power mirrors, A/C, tail and head lights, plus a few other systems.I did attempt the PCM/BCM password relearn process, but that didn't work at this time either.
Since the car has a new PCM there were no PCM codes logged, but there were a number in the TCS, IPC, LDCM, RDCM, RFA, etc. subsystems, and the car says it has "No Comm" with the BCM and HVAC. So, between no crank, plus the lack of control or comm with some of the modules, I'm guessing the BCM is some how corrupt.
Sorry, I said it was a long story.
I'm sure it's possible that I managed to miss a wire or two out of the 90 that go to the PCM, but I'm not sure the symptoms I'm experiencing have anything to do with the PCM right now.
I know I can get a new (used or reman) BCM for a reasonable amount of money. The problem I will have though is getting the correct RPO codes entered. The dealer near me will program the codes for me, but naturally they need the entire car at the shop, not just the BCM, and right now the car isn't operable, let alone registered to drive. I could arrange for a tow there and back, but what a pain.
So, my questions are these, do any of you agree that the BCM is the next logical place to go? If I were to get a different BCM, even with incorrect RPO codes, would I expect to at least have some of the problems I'm experiencing resolved, and maybe even allow the car to crank?
Any suggestions for someone who could tech 2 in the necessary RPO codes for me without my vehicle present? Maybe via mail or possibly another BCM already programmed to my RPO codes?
Beyond that, how do you get the BCM and PCM to handshake a new password between the two of them when they've both been replaced? I've seen talk of what to do when one is swapped out, but that procedure doesn't really say if it'll work if both are "new".
It's a long winter, so I've got a few months to work it all out, but any guidance would be appreciated.
At some point, the PCM and TAC modules were ripped loose from the car. The harnesses to both were cut and both the PCM and TAC modules were no longer with the car. I've spent the last few weeks piecing all (116) of the wires back together in the proper order, new connectors, a programmed PCM, used TAC, etc.
The problem I have right now is that I still can't get the car to crank, plus a few other items. My suspicion is the BCM managed to also get wet, or at least suffer some type of surge during the accident.
I've still got NO control of the power windows, the radio is blank, no courtesy lights on the rearview, no rear hatch operation, and those are just the ones that are obvious. I DO have control of the seats, power mirrors, A/C, tail and head lights, plus a few other systems.I did attempt the PCM/BCM password relearn process, but that didn't work at this time either.
Since the car has a new PCM there were no PCM codes logged, but there were a number in the TCS, IPC, LDCM, RDCM, RFA, etc. subsystems, and the car says it has "No Comm" with the BCM and HVAC. So, between no crank, plus the lack of control or comm with some of the modules, I'm guessing the BCM is some how corrupt.
Sorry, I said it was a long story.
I'm sure it's possible that I managed to miss a wire or two out of the 90 that go to the PCM, but I'm not sure the symptoms I'm experiencing have anything to do with the PCM right now.
I know I can get a new (used or reman) BCM for a reasonable amount of money. The problem I will have though is getting the correct RPO codes entered. The dealer near me will program the codes for me, but naturally they need the entire car at the shop, not just the BCM, and right now the car isn't operable, let alone registered to drive. I could arrange for a tow there and back, but what a pain.
So, my questions are these, do any of you agree that the BCM is the next logical place to go? If I were to get a different BCM, even with incorrect RPO codes, would I expect to at least have some of the problems I'm experiencing resolved, and maybe even allow the car to crank?
Any suggestions for someone who could tech 2 in the necessary RPO codes for me without my vehicle present? Maybe via mail or possibly another BCM already programmed to my RPO codes?
Beyond that, how do you get the BCM and PCM to handshake a new password between the two of them when they've both been replaced? I've seen talk of what to do when one is swapped out, but that procedure doesn't really say if it'll work if both are "new".
It's a long winter, so I've got a few months to work it all out, but any guidance would be appreciated.
Last edited by pmsjr; 11-24-2009 at 04:57 PM.
11-24-2009, 05:11 PM
#2
Tech Contributor
Well, it's a long story. I bought a salvage 2002 LS1 vette with flood damage. I looked it over pretty well, and it's not quite as bad as it might sound, but it is a project. No water made it to the interior, they just managed to hydroplane the car into a culvert along a highway. Mechanically I think I'm in decent shape....but electrically....
At some point, the PCM and TAC modules were ripped loose from the car. The harnesses to both were cut and both the PCM and TAC modules were no longer with the car. I've spent the last few weeks piecing all (116) of the wires back together in the proper order, new connectors, a programmed PCM, used TAC, etc.
The problem I have right now is that I still can't get the car to crank, plus a few other items. My suspicion is the BCM managed to also get wet, or at least suffer some type of surge during the accident.
I've still got NO control of the power windows, the radio is blank, no courtesy lights on the rearview, no rear hatch operation, and those are just the ones that are obvious. I DO have control of the seats, power mirrors, A/C, tail and head lights, plus a few other systems.I did attempt the PCM/BCM password relearn process, but that didn't work at this time either.
Since the car has a new PCM there were no PCM codes logged, but there were a number in the TCS, IPC, LDCM, RDCM, RFA, etc. subsystems, and the car says it has "No Comm" with the BCM and HVAC. So, between no crank, plus the lack of control or comm with some of the modules, I'm guessing the BCM is some how corrupt.
Sorry, I said it was a long story.
I'm sure it's possible that I managed to miss a wire or two out of the 90 that go to the PCM, but I'm not sure the symptoms I'm experiencing have anything to do with the PCM right now.
I know I can get a new (used or reman) BCM for a reasonable amount of money. The problem I will have though is getting the correct RPO codes entered. The dealer near me will program the codes for me, but naturally they need the entire car at the shop, not just the BCM, and right now the car isn't operable, let alone registered to drive. I could arrange for a tow there and back, but what a pain.
So, my questions are these, do any of you agree that the BCM is the next logical place to go? If I were to get a different BCM, even with incorrect RPO codes, would I expect to at least have some of the problems I'm experiencing resolved, and maybe even allow the car to crank?
Any suggestions for someone who could tech 2 in the necessary RPO codes for me without my vehicle present? Maybe via mail or possibly another BCM already programmed to my RPO codes?
Beyond that, how do you get the BCM and PCM to handshake a new password between the two of them when they've both been replaced? I've seen talk of what to do when one is swapped out, but that procedure doesn't really say if it'll work if both are "new".
It's a long winter, so I've got a few months to work it all out, but any guidance would be appreciated.
At some point, the PCM and TAC modules were ripped loose from the car. The harnesses to both were cut and both the PCM and TAC modules were no longer with the car. I've spent the last few weeks piecing all (116) of the wires back together in the proper order, new connectors, a programmed PCM, used TAC, etc.
The problem I have right now is that I still can't get the car to crank, plus a few other items. My suspicion is the BCM managed to also get wet, or at least suffer some type of surge during the accident.
I've still got NO control of the power windows, the radio is blank, no courtesy lights on the rearview, no rear hatch operation, and those are just the ones that are obvious. I DO have control of the seats, power mirrors, A/C, tail and head lights, plus a few other systems.I did attempt the PCM/BCM password relearn process, but that didn't work at this time either.
Since the car has a new PCM there were no PCM codes logged, but there were a number in the TCS, IPC, LDCM, RDCM, RFA, etc. subsystems, and the car says it has "No Comm" with the BCM and HVAC. So, between no crank, plus the lack of control or comm with some of the modules, I'm guessing the BCM is some how corrupt.
Sorry, I said it was a long story.
I'm sure it's possible that I managed to miss a wire or two out of the 90 that go to the PCM, but I'm not sure the symptoms I'm experiencing have anything to do with the PCM right now.
I know I can get a new (used or reman) BCM for a reasonable amount of money. The problem I will have though is getting the correct RPO codes entered. The dealer near me will program the codes for me, but naturally they need the entire car at the shop, not just the BCM, and right now the car isn't operable, let alone registered to drive. I could arrange for a tow there and back, but what a pain.
So, my questions are these, do any of you agree that the BCM is the next logical place to go? If I were to get a different BCM, even with incorrect RPO codes, would I expect to at least have some of the problems I'm experiencing resolved, and maybe even allow the car to crank?
Any suggestions for someone who could tech 2 in the necessary RPO codes for me without my vehicle present? Maybe via mail or possibly another BCM already programmed to my RPO codes?
Beyond that, how do you get the BCM and PCM to handshake a new password between the two of them when they've both been replaced? I've seen talk of what to do when one is swapped out, but that procedure doesn't really say if it'll work if both are "new".
It's a long winter, so I've got a few months to work it all out, but any guidance would be appreciated.
11-24-2009, 05:20 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yes. I'd sleep with all three of them under my pillow if I thought I'd be able to sleep that way. Those books are priceless.
I do plan to recheck a few points, like the class 2 serial data connections since I think the DCMs and Radio I'm pretty sure are all tied to that serial line, but I'm 99.99% sure the leads all got landed back to the proper pins.
I also already checked out fuses, battery fully charged, etc. I have not pulled all the relays to bench check those, but again, I don't think those would be my issue (at least not yet).
I've only got a few "current" codes showing up
U1287 - which I'm not sure I wrote down correctly
U1000
U1064
U1160
U1176
then NO COMM with the BCM and HVAC
with NO CODES from PCM and RADIO
I do plan to recheck a few points, like the class 2 serial data connections since I think the DCMs and Radio I'm pretty sure are all tied to that serial line, but I'm 99.99% sure the leads all got landed back to the proper pins.
I also already checked out fuses, battery fully charged, etc. I have not pulled all the relays to bench check those, but again, I don't think those would be my issue (at least not yet).
I've only got a few "current" codes showing up
U1287 - which I'm not sure I wrote down correctly
U1000
U1064
U1160
U1176
then NO COMM with the BCM and HVAC
with NO CODES from PCM and RADIO
11-24-2009, 05:45 PM
#4
I thought there was some training the ECM and BCM had to go through with a TechII to associate the 2. There is some password they pass between them I believe I remember reading. The manual(s) may talk about it with a BCM/ECM replacement.
11-24-2009, 05:54 PM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
doug, yeah I tried that a few times already, turn on, wait 10 minutes until security light goes out, shut off, repeat 3 times, but will try again tonight.
I suspect though if I have "NO COMM" to the BCM then the relearn won't really matter, but again, maybe I'm wrong.
I suspect though if I have "NO COMM" to the BCM then the relearn won't really matter, but again, maybe I'm wrong.
11-24-2009, 06:43 PM
#6
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Start by finding the power and grounds for the BCM and PCM. Check "EACH" one. Both modules have mulitiple power sources.
Look in the service manual. You will see 12 VDC sources to different modules called "Hot in RUN & START and one that is HOT at ALL TIMES. There are some that are HOT in run and start and hot in Run and ACC.
Make sure that you have FULL Battery voltage on each source. On top of each fuse there are two small holes. Those are test holes for your meter leads.
GROUNDS! Make sure that the module grounds are all connected properly. The main PCM Ground is G-106 on the passengers side of the engine block above the starter. Follow the main battery ground wire down to the block. The small wire on that terminal is that ground wire.
Next to the battery is G-104-108. That one MUST be clean and tight.
Disconnect the battery. Pull the BCM out of the car and remove it from the silver box. Look for corrosion, water damage and damaged sircuit trace runs on the board.
If it is wet/corroded, clean with alcohol and a soft nylon brush. Let it dry in a warm place.
On the left next to the BCM are TWO thin grey connectors. Thats the STAR serial data bus main terminal. Those connectors are ground terminals. The one with only FOUR wires controls serial data to the LDCM, RDCM and seat Control module. You can pull the TOP off that one and isolate those three modules from the serial buss to see if it makes a difference.
Give that a try and see if you can do a BCM/PCM relearn again.
BCM/PCM RELEARN PROCEDURE
You will need to conduct the PCM/BCM relearn process. This matches their handshake ID's and allows them to talk to each other.
Do this before you worry about VATS issues:
1. Turn on the key for 11 minutes.
2 Turn off the key for 30 seconds.
3. Repeat 1&2 two more times.
4. Turn on the key for 30 seconds.
The car should start and run with the new BCM. Good luck and report back on your progress.
Shirl
SD Racing Enterprises
Aguila, AZ
Coutersy of MrEracer
This will sync the PCM to the New BCM but all of your RPO options will not be retained. You will need a TECH II to program them into the new BCM.
Bill Curlee
Look in the service manual. You will see 12 VDC sources to different modules called "Hot in RUN & START and one that is HOT at ALL TIMES. There are some that are HOT in run and start and hot in Run and ACC.
Make sure that you have FULL Battery voltage on each source. On top of each fuse there are two small holes. Those are test holes for your meter leads.
GROUNDS! Make sure that the module grounds are all connected properly. The main PCM Ground is G-106 on the passengers side of the engine block above the starter. Follow the main battery ground wire down to the block. The small wire on that terminal is that ground wire.
Next to the battery is G-104-108. That one MUST be clean and tight.
Disconnect the battery. Pull the BCM out of the car and remove it from the silver box. Look for corrosion, water damage and damaged sircuit trace runs on the board.
If it is wet/corroded, clean with alcohol and a soft nylon brush. Let it dry in a warm place.
On the left next to the BCM are TWO thin grey connectors. Thats the STAR serial data bus main terminal. Those connectors are ground terminals. The one with only FOUR wires controls serial data to the LDCM, RDCM and seat Control module. You can pull the TOP off that one and isolate those three modules from the serial buss to see if it makes a difference.
Give that a try and see if you can do a BCM/PCM relearn again.
BCM/PCM RELEARN PROCEDURE
You will need to conduct the PCM/BCM relearn process. This matches their handshake ID's and allows them to talk to each other.
Do this before you worry about VATS issues:
1. Turn on the key for 11 minutes.
2 Turn off the key for 30 seconds.
3. Repeat 1&2 two more times.
4. Turn on the key for 30 seconds.
The car should start and run with the new BCM. Good luck and report back on your progress.
Shirl
SD Racing Enterprises
Aguila, AZ
Coutersy of MrEracer
This will sync the PCM to the New BCM but all of your RPO options will not be retained. You will need a TECH II to program them into the new BCM.
Bill Curlee
Last edited by Bill Curlee; 11-24-2009 at 06:45 PM.
11-24-2009, 10:16 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks Bill. I'll give those a shot. Like I said, with the BCM showing NO COMM I can't imagine right now the relearn is the issue. I would think even without it I'd be able to see what codes it might have, since I believe the BCM is more the "master" of the serial chain anyway.
I've seen that procedure from SD Racing before and it's the one I tried, but will try again tonight Hopefully, since I didn't replace the BCM, just the PCM up to this point, I'll get the relearn to take and go from there.
For what it matters, the security light appears to go out only a few seconds after I put the key to the run position. In other words it's not taking 10 (or 11) minutes on mine for it to go out. Could that possibly mean that there is no communication between the BCM and PCM and therefore no password handshake issue becasue the BCM is inoperative?
Man I hope it's as simple as a loose ground!
I've seen that procedure from SD Racing before and it's the one I tried, but will try again tonight Hopefully, since I didn't replace the BCM, just the PCM up to this point, I'll get the relearn to take and go from there.
For what it matters, the security light appears to go out only a few seconds after I put the key to the run position. In other words it's not taking 10 (or 11) minutes on mine for it to go out. Could that possibly mean that there is no communication between the BCM and PCM and therefore no password handshake issue becasue the BCM is inoperative?
Man I hope it's as simple as a loose ground!
Last edited by pmsjr; 11-24-2009 at 10:36 PM.
11-27-2009, 03:50 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
Programmed BCM?
Well, after too much turkey, I managed to remove the BCM and pop open the aluminum housing. Based on what it looks like I suspect I got just enough water in there to fry the entire board. Naturally since it was water, I don't have any black crispy looking areas, but both sides of the board have that white and grey corroded look, the small transistors, etc., you can't even read some of the writting. I'm going to try and clean with some contact cleaner and a soft brush, but I think it's terminal.
So, does anyone know where I might get a new (or used) BCM programmed with my necessary RPO codes? In truth, I can get another BCM, but it's the programming I'd really be interested in. As I stated earlier the car is non-mobile right now, so I'd have to find a way to program a BCM without the actual car. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Pete
So, does anyone know where I might get a new (or used) BCM programmed with my necessary RPO codes? In truth, I can get another BCM, but it's the programming I'd really be interested in. As I stated earlier the car is non-mobile right now, so I'd have to find a way to program a BCM without the actual car. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Pete
11-27-2009, 04:21 PM
#9
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Well, after too much turkey, I managed to remove the BCM and pop open the aluminum housing. Based on what it looks like I suspect I got just enough water in there to fry the entire board. Naturally since it was water, I don't have any black crispy looking areas, but both sides of the board have that white and grey corroded look, the small transistors, etc., you can't even read some of the writting. I'm going to try and clean with some contact cleaner and a soft brush, but I think it's terminal.
So, does anyone know where I might get a new (or used) BCM programmed with my necessary RPO codes? In truth, I can get another BCM, but it's the programming I'd really be interested in. As I stated earlier the car is non-mobile right now, so I'd have to find a way to program a BCM without the actual car. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Pete
So, does anyone know where I might get a new (or used) BCM programmed with my necessary RPO codes? In truth, I can get another BCM, but it's the programming I'd really be interested in. As I stated earlier the car is non-mobile right now, so I'd have to find a way to program a BCM without the actual car. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Pete
You can use any BCM that will work in your year C5. There many different MODEL BCMs. Just call Gene Culley or visit his website www.gmpartshouse.com and get the correct one. He will have the best OEM New BCM prices.
As for programming. You can do a PCM/BCM sync procedure and get the car to run. You MUST use a TECH II to program in the RPO codes. What RPO codes do you need programmed in?
Here is the procedure;
BCM/PCM RELEARN PROCEDURE
You will need to conduct the PCM/BCM relearn process. This matches their handshake ID's and allows them to talk to each other.
Do this before you worry about VATS issues:
1. Turn on the key for 11 minutes.
2 Turn off the key for 30 seconds.
3. Repeat 1&2 two more times.
4. Turn on the key for 30 seconds.
The car should start and run with the new BCM. Good luck and report back on your progress.
Shirl
SD Racing Enterprises
Aguila, AZ
Coutersy of MrEracer
This will sync the PCM to the New BCM but all of your RPO options will not be retained. You will need a TECH II to program them into the new BCM.
I had my BCM "VERY" wet and full of corrosion a couple of times in my 98. After it was cleaned and dried out, it worked fine!
So,,,don't give up the ship yet.
Bill
11-27-2009, 04:30 PM
#10
Pro
Sir, I also had purchased a salvage vehicle and repaired it . Long process. Mine was nailed in the right front and it also took out the pcm and the harness was torn in half. With a lot of wires being the same color, I figured it would take forever for me to get the right wire in the right connector position so I bought a used pcm , engine harness and installed that. No small feat.I hope you soldered all of your broken wiring. Even then,[found out the hard way] you can have problems. Make sure you scrape the wiring with a sharp razor blade to get any oxidation off of them so you don't get a cold solder joint. The wiring is such small guage that you really have to do a thorough job. I made a few mistakes in that area and it is still causing me headaches. Replace the BCM and go from there. You can email me at rwill10590@verizon.net or call me at 941 423 4070 if I can be of further assistance. IN Florida, the paperwork involved was worse than the actual repairs to the car.Remember, at least in this state, any used part you install , you have to provide the VIN of the car the part came off of!!!!!! Ridiculous but that's the law. I found out aboutthis after I had purchased a used set or airbags at @ $800 and had to buy a whole nother set just to get a serial number. I was not happy. Anyway, don't let the project overwhelm you, one day at a time and all that crap!!!! Good luck!!!!!! The RH Factor
12-02-2009, 09:27 PM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well, I tried cleaning up the old BCM, but had no luck.
However, the good news is that I managed to find a replacement BCM, popped it in, did the relearn procedure, and it started right up!
Now, I still have the issue of getting the RPO codes into the new BCM. Does anyone know of anyplace out there where I might be able to ship it off to have the RPO codes added/removed? As I've said, the vehicle still isn't fully mobile (or street legal) so simply cruising into the dealer for a visit isn't as simple as it might sound.
Not giving up yet, but have all winter to work out the remaining issues!
However, the good news is that I managed to find a replacement BCM, popped it in, did the relearn procedure, and it started right up!
Now, I still have the issue of getting the RPO codes into the new BCM. Does anyone know of anyplace out there where I might be able to ship it off to have the RPO codes added/removed? As I've said, the vehicle still isn't fully mobile (or street legal) so simply cruising into the dealer for a visit isn't as simple as it might sound.
Not giving up yet, but have all winter to work out the remaining issues!
12-02-2009, 10:59 PM
#12
Race Director
Well, I tried cleaning up the old BCM, but had no luck.
However, the good news is that I managed to find a replacement BCM, popped it in, did the relearn procedure, and it started right up!
Now, I still have the issue of getting the RPO codes into the new BCM. Does anyone know of anyplace out there where I might be able to ship it off to have the RPO codes added/removed? As I've said, the vehicle still isn't fully mobile (or street legal) so simply cruising into the dealer for a visit isn't as simple as it might sound.
Not giving up yet, but have all winter to work out the remaining issues!
However, the good news is that I managed to find a replacement BCM, popped it in, did the relearn procedure, and it started right up!
Now, I still have the issue of getting the RPO codes into the new BCM. Does anyone know of anyplace out there where I might be able to ship it off to have the RPO codes added/removed? As I've said, the vehicle still isn't fully mobile (or street legal) so simply cruising into the dealer for a visit isn't as simple as it might sound.
Not giving up yet, but have all winter to work out the remaining issues!
Typically, the BCM is installed and then you hook up the tech2 to the OBD connector port to update the RPO codes.
12-02-2009, 11:05 PM
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
I'm in the St. Louis area. Yeah, I know it needs to be in the car for programming, but thought someone might have the ability to drop it in a "donor" car for programming, then ship it back out. Worth a shot to ask I figure.
Worst case I'll figure a way to get it by the local dealer if all else fails. At least now I know where most of my problems were coming from.
Worst case I'll figure a way to get it by the local dealer if all else fails. At least now I know where most of my problems were coming from.
12-03-2009, 12:00 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
I'm in the St. Louis area. Yeah, I know it needs to be in the car for programming, but thought someone might have the ability to drop it in a "donor" car for programming, then ship it back out. Worth a shot to ask I figure.
Worst case I'll figure a way to get it by the local dealer if all else fails. At least now I know where most of my problems were coming from.
Worst case I'll figure a way to get it by the local dealer if all else fails. At least now I know where most of my problems were coming from.
