Adding Tranny cooler and external trany filter
05-16-2010, 06:38 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Happy your cooler is working out for you. A good synthetic oil should run cooler then regular atf, on my Silverado 2500 HD it has a trans temp gauge and it lost 25 F when I switched from regular ATf to Amsoil.
My towing temp is what my regular unloaded temp used to be!
My towing temp is what my regular unloaded temp used to be!
05-17-2010, 08:44 PM
#22
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Thanks for all the feed back, Yes I did remove the internal pick up tube/Filter. I will be doing a oil analysis to see how the oil if fairing compared to the before oil test. Hobbes. I was also thinking about going to Amsoil in the trany but, the main thing I wanted to do was flush the entire system with amsoil not just the 5 or so quarts in the Pan. I'm looking for away to capture the oil from the Converter also. I would rather not pull it and to drain it, but I have seen very little converters with drain plugs in them since they are harder to balance. If you have any suggestions let me know, thanks.
05-17-2010, 10:32 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Thanks for all the feed back, Yes I did remove the internal pick up tube/Filter. I will be doing a oil analysis to see how the oil if fairing compared to the before oil test. Hobbes. I was also thinking about going to Amsoil in the trany but, the main thing I wanted to do was flush the entire system with amsoil not just the 5 or so quarts in the Pan. I'm looking for away to capture the oil from the Converter also. I would rather not pull it and to drain it, but I have seen very little converters with drain plugs in them since they are harder to balance. If you have any suggestions let me know, thanks.
1)I change the filter and oil in the pan first.
2)I then disconnect the trans cooler lines and set them up to flow into a container and hit the autostarter to notice which line is the supply line.
3) Knowing the total volume you can subtract the amount you added to the pan, and with an autostart it is pretty easy to count quart per quart as you fill up. The flow will not be like a high pressure fire nossle, it will be manageable to do one at a time. As I stop to change to the new empty quart I add a quart to the pan that way I don't get low in the pan.
When you get near the total quart mark needed you should see notice a noticeable color change in the fluid, from darker less translucent red to a brighter more vibrant red of the fresh fluid!
I don't mean to be basic in description but it has worked like a charm for all the ones I did.
You could just look for the color change but I would not want to run the trasn low and its nice to know about when the color change is coming in!
05-18-2010, 01:05 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
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Thanks for all the feed back, Yes I did remove the internal pick up tube/Filter. I will be doing a oil analysis to see how the oil if fairing compared to the before oil test. Hobbes. I was also thinking about going to Amsoil in the trany but, the main thing I wanted to do was flush the entire system with amsoil not just the 5 or so quarts in the Pan. I'm looking for away to capture the oil from the Converter also. I would rather not pull it and to drain it, but I have seen very little converters with drain plugs in them since they are harder to balance. If you have any suggestions let me know, thanks.
Apparently you have never studied the hydraulic circuitry of the automatic transmission.
If you had you would have discovered a few very important things.
1.The fluid from the pan starts flowing directly into the pump assembly where it is directed into the valve body to be distributed through various circuits in the transmission.
2.The cooler only sees a very small portion of the total fluid flowing at any given time.
It comes off the converter clutch apply valve ALL the rest of the fluid is unfiltered.
So by removing the pan filter you are recirculating most of the debris that would normally be stopped by the filter.
As for hobbesnmina2001 idea of changing the fluid through the cooler lines, well he better have a LOT of fluid on hand.
To get anywhere near 100% change he'd need somewhere near 70-100 qt's. of fluid.
Sometimes things just aren't quite as simple as they seem!
Apparently you have never studied the hydraulic circuitry of the automatic transmission.
If you had you would have discovered a few very important things.
1.The fluid from the pan starts flowing directly into the pump assembly where it is directed into the valve body to be distributed through various circuits in the transmission.
2.The cooler only sees a very small portion of the total fluid flowing at any given time.
It comes off the converter clutch apply valve ALL the rest of the fluid is unfiltered.
So by removing the pan filter you are recirculating most of the debris that would normally be stopped by the filter.
As for hobbesnmina2001 idea of changing the fluid through the cooler lines, well he better have a LOT of fluid on hand.
To get anywhere near 100% change he'd need somewhere near 70-100 qt's. of fluid.
Sometimes things just aren't quite as simple as they seem!
05-18-2010, 08:55 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Thanks for all the feed back, Yes I did remove the internal pick up tube/Filter. I will be doing a oil analysis to see how the oil if fairing compared to the before oil test. Hobbes. I was also thinking about going to Amsoil in the trany but, the main thing I wanted to do was flush the entire system with amsoil not just the 5 or so quarts in the Pan. I'm looking for away to capture the oil from the Converter also. I would rather not pull it and to drain it, but I have seen very little converters with drain plugs in them since they are harder to balance. If you have any suggestions let me know, thanks.
Apparently you have never studied the hydraulic circuitry of the automatic transmission.
If you had you would have discovered a few very important things.
1.The fluid from the pan starts flowing directly into the pump assembly where it is directed into the valve body to be distributed through various circuits in the transmission.
2.The cooler only sees a very small portion of the total fluid flowing at any given time.
It comes off the converter clutch apply valve ALL the rest of the fluid is unfiltered.
So by removing the pan filter you are recirculating most of the debris that would normally be stopped by the filter.
As for hobbesnmina2001 idea of changing the fluid through the cooler lines, well he better have a LOT of fluid on hand.
To get anywhere near 100% change he'd need somewhere near 70-100 qt's. of fluid.
Sometimes things just aren't quite as simple as they seem!
Apparently you have never studied the hydraulic circuitry of the automatic transmission.
If you had you would have discovered a few very important things.
1.The fluid from the pan starts flowing directly into the pump assembly where it is directed into the valve body to be distributed through various circuits in the transmission.
2.The cooler only sees a very small portion of the total fluid flowing at any given time.
It comes off the converter clutch apply valve ALL the rest of the fluid is unfiltered.
So by removing the pan filter you are recirculating most of the debris that would normally be stopped by the filter.
As for hobbesnmina2001 idea of changing the fluid through the cooler lines, well he better have a LOT of fluid on hand.
To get anywhere near 100% change he'd need somewhere near 70-100 qt's. of fluid.
Sometimes things just aren't quite as simple as they seem!
Really? Well I have done it on 4 vehicles (all gms) and its worked everytime with the color change coming within 1/2 quart of expected capacity. I got it from a manual but here is the same procedure online.
Please pay attention to #11
http://www.partshp.com/FluidChange.htm
11. You now have replaced the fluid in the pan. To replace the fluid in the torque converter and oil cooler also, follow these steps.
Step 1. Obtain the total system capacity of the vehicle from the manufacturer. Have this amount readily available.
Step 2. Disconnect the oil cooler line from the oil cooler. As you may not know which is the pressure side and which is the return side, have both directed so the stream of fluid will be directed toward a receptacle.
Step 3. With another person, be prepared to add ATF to the fill area as it is being pumped out of the oil cooler line.
Step 4. Start the engine, and as the old fluid is pumped out, add fresh fluid to the pan.
Step 5. When either the fluid color brightens or the total capacity has been replaced, shut the engine off and re-attach the oil cooler line. All fluids has now been changed.
The only difference I did I used the remote autostart instead of a second person!
Last edited by hobbesnmina2001; 05-18-2010 at 08:58 PM.
05-19-2010, 10:46 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
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Really? Well I have done it on 4 vehicles (all gms) and its worked everytime with the color change coming within 1/2 quart of expected capacity. I got it from a manual but here is the same procedure online.
Please pay attention to #11
http://www.partshp.com/FluidChange.htm
11. You now have replaced the fluid in the pan. To replace the fluid in the torque converter and oil cooler also, follow these steps.
Step 1. Obtain the total system capacity of the vehicle from the manufacturer. Have this amount readily available.
Step 2. Disconnect the oil cooler line from the oil cooler. As you may not know which is the pressure side and which is the return side, have both directed so the stream of fluid will be directed toward a receptacle.
Step 3. With another person, be prepared to add ATF to the fill area as it is being pumped out of the oil cooler line.
Step 4. Start the engine, and as the old fluid is pumped out, add fresh fluid to the pan.
Step 5. When either the fluid color brightens or the total capacity has been replaced, shut the engine off and re-attach the oil cooler line. All fluids has now been changed.
The only difference I did I used the remote autostart instead of a second person!
Please pay attention to #11
http://www.partshp.com/FluidChange.htm
11. You now have replaced the fluid in the pan. To replace the fluid in the torque converter and oil cooler also, follow these steps.
Step 1. Obtain the total system capacity of the vehicle from the manufacturer. Have this amount readily available.
Step 2. Disconnect the oil cooler line from the oil cooler. As you may not know which is the pressure side and which is the return side, have both directed so the stream of fluid will be directed toward a receptacle.
Step 3. With another person, be prepared to add ATF to the fill area as it is being pumped out of the oil cooler line.
Step 4. Start the engine, and as the old fluid is pumped out, add fresh fluid to the pan.
Step 5. When either the fluid color brightens or the total capacity has been replaced, shut the engine off and re-attach the oil cooler line. All fluids has now been changed.
The only difference I did I used the remote autostart instead of a second person!
Most of the fluid in your transmission is in the converter so remember your only getting a very small portion to the cooler coming off the TCC apply valve. The rest is dumped back to sump.
Yes you are changing the color of the fluid but your not changing ALL the fluid.
Even those expensive transmission fluid exchange machines found in dealerships and repair facilities don't change all the fluid.
That's why they have to add expensive additive packages to the oil when they "flush your transmission".
No I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night and I don't maintain military aircraft, but I am a retired automotive transmission design Engineer!
05-19-2010, 12:08 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Please read #2 in my answer.
Most of the fluid in your transmission is in the converter so remember your only getting a very small portion to the cooler coming off the TCC apply valve. The rest is dumped back to sump.
Yes you are changing the color of the fluid but your not changing ALL the fluid.
Even those expensive transmission fluid exchange machines found in dealerships and repair facilities don't change all the fluid.
That's why they have to add expensive additive packages to the oil when they "flush your transmission".
No I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night and I don't maintain military aircraft, but I am a retired automotive transmission design Engineer!
Most of the fluid in your transmission is in the converter so remember your only getting a very small portion to the cooler coming off the TCC apply valve. The rest is dumped back to sump.
Yes you are changing the color of the fluid but your not changing ALL the fluid.
Even those expensive transmission fluid exchange machines found in dealerships and repair facilities don't change all the fluid.
That's why they have to add expensive additive packages to the oil when they "flush your transmission".
No I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night and I don't maintain military aircraft, but I am a retired automotive transmission design Engineer!
I am not a transmission engineer but I do know how to do at least basic math, and read. As an example in my 2003 Silverado with a 4L80E here are the capacities :
Automatic Transmission, 4L80-E Initial Fill..........7.8 quarts
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
4 speed 4L80-E..........13.6 quarts
After changing the filter I did add 8 quarts to the transmission and using that procedure (which is listed in manuals) I did get the color change with a little less the 14 quarts total!
In my world this tells me I virtually changed the fluid about as good as one can possibly do. Did I change every F...ng molecule? Of course not there is some fluid exchange but the math and visual color change shows it does the job pretty good and it didn't take no 70-100 F..ng quarts!
Now I have made my living doing fluid process work for 35 years, so viualization of processes and math are ingrained. I also understand that if the dilution factor was as substantial as you are claiming the fluid color change would not be very apparent (less evident).
Lets see 13.6 quarts - 7.8= 5.8. Comparing to slightly less then 14 qts the numbers are pretty close at least in my world.
It was similar with the Trailblazer, the old S-10, etc.!
Related to the OP questions, but not this particular procedure is that when enhancing the filtration as the OP planned the total volume of ATF will get filtered. My Siverado I converted at 20,000 miles and adding bypass filtration has kept the trans oil in great shape. My trucks use is towing, not much transportation, and some snow plowing. The trans shifts great at 75,000 and fluid is also great. We just towed cross country to the Winternats and the trans fluid looks better, and smells better with 55,000 miles then the factory Dextron with 20,000.
Partly is the Amsoil, and partly is the filtering keeping the oil clean. On my gasser using the Amsoil racing ATF (only pan filter) the oil was not anywhere in the same shape after 157 passes. Of course that also entailed a 5700 rpm stall converter and hard trans brake launches. I am planning on adding better line filtration to my next gasser.
BTW other then criticize I didn't see where you added any alternative ideas or methods?
Last edited by hobbesnmina2001; 05-19-2010 at 12:11 PM.
05-20-2010, 12:24 AM
#28
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Well being that I have access to a mechanic and a auto transmission specialty shop I asked him about the process and the flow of transmission fluid. Now, his basic explanation was yes, the transmission purge process is exactly whats done with a professional flush machine. it taps into the cooling line and replaces the fluid flowing out with the new fluid bign picked up by the coolant return line. The only difference is, after the 15 min system flush for the pan, the transmission it then run through all the gears. This he says, opens all the valves and passages. There are various circuits of fluid flow in the transmission much like any electrical system. So as you open all the valves you do get all the fluid in the transmission to flow through the cooler. Hence your cooler will have flow of most of the fluid in your transmission. the best way to see this is when you have the cooler line disconnected next time, have someone jump in and hold the brake, but put it in drive, your flow will triple. As for the in pan filter he says its old tech that is no longer used in heavy machinery hyd raulic system. Fighter jets don't use internal filter in any of the hyd tanks. So ill take my chances. I also get free oil analysis so we will see what kinds of particulates are in the oil. I will let the numbers tell the story. I do appreciate everyone's info, it truly gets the brain cells firing.
01-08-2013, 09:17 AM
#30
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Just fyi for any and all still following this, post. MY C5 Tranny ismtill running strong and cool, I did relocate to, AZ where the temps are even much higher, so im extra glad i did this mod now. Thanks for all the support and tech from all of you guys.
