Pfadt Poly Bushing Install
09-16-2010, 11:28 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Pfadt Poly Bushing Install
Tools needed: 8" C-clamp, Ball Joint press kit (free rental from Advance), some misc large washers, misc pieces of small scrap metal, vice, bearing separator plate from Harbor Freight ($20-$25), dead blow hammer, some prying tools
DIY
- uninstall:
- front uppers - clamp in vice, twist and pull to remove (takes some effort)
- rest = ball joint press or C-clamp. use the various fixtures, press out. Scraping the inside of the control arm is ok since we are putting in poly, which is hardly a precision material
- C-clamp is needed on the lower arm bushings
- NOTE - NO NEED TO CUT ANY rubber to remove, contrary to the VBP instructions. NO NEED to burn any rubber to remove contrary to the Pfadt instructions. No need to weld up any special fixtures to press them out, no need to buy a press, etc.
- you will need to use the bearing separator on the lowers, don't clamp too tightly or it will make pressing out the bushings pretty difficult
Note that the rubber bushings do not appear to be bonded to the arms so minimal (none if you want) clean-up is necessary. Poly is forgiving and will conform to whatever.
install:
- same as above BUT - key point - cut all the big bushings in half
- use a real jigsaw (Porter Cable, Bosch, etc.) with the long blades to cut the bushing - prob even better with a band saw
- before cutting the bushing - mark both sides since your cut will NOT be uniform
- grind the two edges of your pieces on the side of a bench grinder - 1/8" or so space is ideal
- why do this? Poly is a weird material - it will squish out and make installing the lower arms impossible, especially once you add the center pins. Cutting will give the bushings some room, internally. Note, VBANDP bushings all come in 2 pieces. I also could not get the 1 piecers to install w/o cutting them - they squish and disturb the press fixture.
NOTE - the 1 piece lower shock bushings fit in ok and no need to cut these a the shock fits over them with minimal encouragement).
- grease the metal inners liberally and also the insides of bushings (do not lube the outside of the bushings (per Pfadt - use water/alky for lube, I didn't find a need - just squeeze together or use a vise of putting the pin in moves one side of a 2-piece bushing setup). You may also want to grease the outside of the rear uppers.
- install on car - you will need to grind all of the lower mounting arm cradles - grind the outer-most parts of the inner sides with a 4" grinder so the arm will physically fit, then pound in with a plastic (dead blow) hammer, then final adjustment with prying. Very easy once you grind, impossible otherwise (and I would guess even more so if you didn't cut the 1 piece bushings).
- you should mark the location of the cams if using stock lower cams (you only need to mark the plate and that is attached to the bolt, relative to its position in the cradle).
- remove the gas tank heat shields to get out the rear bolt
- you will prob need to squeeze the uppers in a vice, then bang with the dead blow to get them in the mounting tabs
- No squeaks yet (1 week in!), no ride quality issues
- pretty easy install if you follow the above, it just takes forever. My mom pressed out/in all the bushings once I showed her how - you may need a cheater bar for the C-clamp. She is a pretty good mechanic though, and has helped out a lot on my various cars. But she isn't that strong - my point being that no press is needed.
Parts casualties - front upper ball joint - the allen fitting stripped during removal. It was prob the first time it was touched in 10 years. This can be pressed out and easily pressed on per another thread that I posted.
DIY
- uninstall:
- front uppers - clamp in vice, twist and pull to remove (takes some effort)
- rest = ball joint press or C-clamp. use the various fixtures, press out. Scraping the inside of the control arm is ok since we are putting in poly, which is hardly a precision material
- C-clamp is needed on the lower arm bushings
- NOTE - NO NEED TO CUT ANY rubber to remove, contrary to the VBP instructions. NO NEED to burn any rubber to remove contrary to the Pfadt instructions. No need to weld up any special fixtures to press them out, no need to buy a press, etc.
- you will need to use the bearing separator on the lowers, don't clamp too tightly or it will make pressing out the bushings pretty difficult
Note that the rubber bushings do not appear to be bonded to the arms so minimal (none if you want) clean-up is necessary. Poly is forgiving and will conform to whatever.
install:
- same as above BUT - key point - cut all the big bushings in half
- use a real jigsaw (Porter Cable, Bosch, etc.) with the long blades to cut the bushing - prob even better with a band saw
- before cutting the bushing - mark both sides since your cut will NOT be uniform
- grind the two edges of your pieces on the side of a bench grinder - 1/8" or so space is ideal
- why do this? Poly is a weird material - it will squish out and make installing the lower arms impossible, especially once you add the center pins. Cutting will give the bushings some room, internally. Note, VBANDP bushings all come in 2 pieces. I also could not get the 1 piecers to install w/o cutting them - they squish and disturb the press fixture.
NOTE - the 1 piece lower shock bushings fit in ok and no need to cut these a the shock fits over them with minimal encouragement).
- grease the metal inners liberally and also the insides of bushings (do not lube the outside of the bushings (per Pfadt - use water/alky for lube, I didn't find a need - just squeeze together or use a vise of putting the pin in moves one side of a 2-piece bushing setup). You may also want to grease the outside of the rear uppers.
- install on car - you will need to grind all of the lower mounting arm cradles - grind the outer-most parts of the inner sides with a 4" grinder so the arm will physically fit, then pound in with a plastic (dead blow) hammer, then final adjustment with prying. Very easy once you grind, impossible otherwise (and I would guess even more so if you didn't cut the 1 piece bushings).
- you should mark the location of the cams if using stock lower cams (you only need to mark the plate and that is attached to the bolt, relative to its position in the cradle).
- remove the gas tank heat shields to get out the rear bolt
- you will prob need to squeeze the uppers in a vice, then bang with the dead blow to get them in the mounting tabs
- No squeaks yet (1 week in!), no ride quality issues
- pretty easy install if you follow the above, it just takes forever. My mom pressed out/in all the bushings once I showed her how - you may need a cheater bar for the C-clamp. She is a pretty good mechanic though, and has helped out a lot on my various cars. But she isn't that strong - my point being that no press is needed.
Parts casualties - front upper ball joint - the allen fitting stripped during removal. It was prob the first time it was touched in 10 years. This can be pressed out and easily pressed on per another thread that I posted.
Last edited by RX-Ben; 09-17-2010 at 02:20 AM.
09-19-2010, 02:07 AM
#3
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Worked great on the track, except my tires were trash.
Open that wallet really wide if you can find a shop to do this. It is easy, but takes a lot of time.
Open that wallet really wide if you can find a shop to do this. It is easy, but takes a lot of time.
09-19-2010, 08:10 AM
#6
Safety Car
I used a long piece of threaded rod with nuts to install the bushings without cutting them and it was easy, the threaded rod captures the bushings so they can't pop out like using a press or vice.
09-19-2010, 02:19 PM
#7
Safety Car
Thread Starter
The bushings will be under a bit of stress if left in one piece and the tolerances aren't perfect, which they are not on the A-arms. Check out Zenak's HPDE thread. Cutting in half will elim these issues and makes install easy (simply press in by hand).
09-19-2010, 10:49 PM
#8
Race Director
Me & Zenak (Keith) did the install on his car. The front uppers kept popping the snap rings and ended up being sent to Pfadt.
Re-installed the newly designed front uppers in August, but I don't think Keith has been to the track to test them out yet.
Getting the old one out using a ball joint press works well. Clean up the inner bores with a green scrubby and then install bushing and center pins .
Use a lot of grease on the inner bushing and center sleeve. Helps to have a big vice to press them together.
09-20-2010, 05:10 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
Member Since: May 2006
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Me & Zenak (Zenak and I!!!) (Keith) did the install on his car. The front uppers kept popping the snap rings and ended up being sent to Pfadt.
Re-installed the newly designed front uppers in August, but I don't think Keith has been to the track to test them out yet.
Getting the old one out using a ball joint press works well. Clean up the inner bores with a green scrubby and then install bushing and center pins .
Use a lot of grease on the inner bushing and center sleeve. Helps to have a big vice to press them together.
Good info though, I'll be doing a bushing swap soon!
09-20-2010, 08:49 AM
#10
Race Director
03-18-2011, 04:09 AM
#13
Race Director
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Cruise-In VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Tools needed: 8" C-clamp, Ball Joint press kit (free rental from Advance), some misc large washers, misc pieces of small scrap metal, vice, bearing separator plate from Harbor Freight ($20-$25), dead blow hammer, some prying tools
DIY
- uninstall:
- front uppers - clamp in vice, twist and pull to remove (takes some effort)
- rest = ball joint press or C-clamp. use the various fixtures, press out. Scraping the inside of the control arm is ok since we are putting in poly, which is hardly a precision material
- C-clamp is needed on the lower arm bushings
- NOTE - NO NEED TO CUT ANY rubber to remove, contrary to the VBP instructions. NO NEED to burn any rubber to remove contrary to the Pfadt instructions. No need to weld up any special fixtures to press them out, no need to buy a press, etc.
- you will need to use the bearing separator on the lowers, don't clamp too tightly or it will make pressing out the bushings pretty difficult
Note that the rubber bushings do not appear to be bonded to the arms so minimal (none if you want) clean-up is necessary. Poly is forgiving and will conform to whatever.
install:
- same as above BUT - key point - cut all the big bushings in half
- use a real jigsaw (Porter Cable, Bosch, etc.) with the long blades to cut the bushing - prob even better with a band saw
- before cutting the bushing - mark both sides since your cut will NOT be uniform
- grind the two edges of your pieces on the side of a bench grinder - 1/8" or so space is ideal
- why do this? Poly is a weird material - it will squish out and make installing the lower arms impossible, especially once you add the center pins. Cutting will give the bushings some room, internally. Note, VBANDP bushings all come in 2 pieces. I also could not get the 1 piecers to install w/o cutting them - they squish and disturb the press fixture.
NOTE - the 1 piece lower shock bushings fit in ok and no need to cut these a the shock fits over them with minimal encouragement).
- grease the metal inners liberally and also the insides of bushings (do not lube the outside of the bushings (per Pfadt - use water/alky for lube, I didn't find a need - just squeeze together or use a vise of putting the pin in moves one side of a 2-piece bushing setup). You may also want to grease the outside of the rear uppers.
- install on car - you will need to grind all of the lower mounting arm cradles - grind the outer-most parts of the inner sides with a 4" grinder so the arm will physically fit, then pound in with a plastic (dead blow) hammer, then final adjustment with prying. Very easy once you grind, impossible otherwise (and I would guess even more so if you didn't cut the 1 piece bushings).- you should mark the location of the cams if using stock lower cams (you only need to mark the plate and that is attached to the bolt, relative to its position in the cradle).
- remove the gas tank heat shields to get out the rear bolt
- you will prob need to squeeze the uppers in a vice, then bang with the dead blow to get them in the mounting tabs
- No squeaks yet (1 week in!), no ride quality issues
- pretty easy install if you follow the above, it just takes forever. My mom pressed out/in all the bushings once I showed her how - you may need a cheater bar for the C-clamp. She is a pretty good mechanic though, and has helped out a lot on my various cars. But she isn't that strong - my point being that no press is needed.
Parts casualties - front upper ball joint - the allen fitting stripped during removal. It was prob the first time it was touched in 10 years. This can be pressed out and easily pressed on per another thread that I posted.
DIY
- uninstall:
- front uppers - clamp in vice, twist and pull to remove (takes some effort)
- rest = ball joint press or C-clamp. use the various fixtures, press out. Scraping the inside of the control arm is ok since we are putting in poly, which is hardly a precision material
- C-clamp is needed on the lower arm bushings
- NOTE - NO NEED TO CUT ANY rubber to remove, contrary to the VBP instructions. NO NEED to burn any rubber to remove contrary to the Pfadt instructions. No need to weld up any special fixtures to press them out, no need to buy a press, etc.
- you will need to use the bearing separator on the lowers, don't clamp too tightly or it will make pressing out the bushings pretty difficult
Note that the rubber bushings do not appear to be bonded to the arms so minimal (none if you want) clean-up is necessary. Poly is forgiving and will conform to whatever.
install:
- same as above BUT - key point - cut all the big bushings in half
- use a real jigsaw (Porter Cable, Bosch, etc.) with the long blades to cut the bushing - prob even better with a band saw
- before cutting the bushing - mark both sides since your cut will NOT be uniform
- grind the two edges of your pieces on the side of a bench grinder - 1/8" or so space is ideal
- why do this? Poly is a weird material - it will squish out and make installing the lower arms impossible, especially once you add the center pins. Cutting will give the bushings some room, internally. Note, VBANDP bushings all come in 2 pieces. I also could not get the 1 piecers to install w/o cutting them - they squish and disturb the press fixture.
NOTE - the 1 piece lower shock bushings fit in ok and no need to cut these a the shock fits over them with minimal encouragement).
- grease the metal inners liberally and also the insides of bushings (do not lube the outside of the bushings (per Pfadt - use water/alky for lube, I didn't find a need - just squeeze together or use a vise of putting the pin in moves one side of a 2-piece bushing setup). You may also want to grease the outside of the rear uppers.
- install on car - you will need to grind all of the lower mounting arm cradles - grind the outer-most parts of the inner sides with a 4" grinder so the arm will physically fit, then pound in with a plastic (dead blow) hammer, then final adjustment with prying. Very easy once you grind, impossible otherwise (and I would guess even more so if you didn't cut the 1 piece bushings).- you should mark the location of the cams if using stock lower cams (you only need to mark the plate and that is attached to the bolt, relative to its position in the cradle).
- remove the gas tank heat shields to get out the rear bolt
- you will prob need to squeeze the uppers in a vice, then bang with the dead blow to get them in the mounting tabs
- No squeaks yet (1 week in!), no ride quality issues
- pretty easy install if you follow the above, it just takes forever. My mom pressed out/in all the bushings once I showed her how - you may need a cheater bar for the C-clamp. She is a pretty good mechanic though, and has helped out a lot on my various cars. But she isn't that strong - my point being that no press is needed.
Parts casualties - front upper ball joint - the allen fitting stripped during removal. It was prob the first time it was touched in 10 years. This can be pressed out and easily pressed on per another thread that I posted.
I have emailed pfadt on this.
03-18-2011, 07:30 AM
#15
Race Director
What you need to do is cut all of the bushings in half and then grind down the bushing ends that go inside so the bushings sit flush against the outside of the arm.
03-18-2011, 11:13 AM
#16
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Member Since: Apr 2004
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St. Jude Donor '07
What we found out when we installed the bushings was that GM had various tolerances in the control arm measurements.
What you need to do is cut all of the bushings in half and then grind down the bushing ends that go inside so the bushings sit flush against the outside of the arm.
What you need to do is cut all of the bushings in half and then grind down the bushing ends that go inside so the bushings sit flush against the outside of the arm.
Seems to me that cutting them would weaken them and they would loose overall design integrity.
03-18-2011, 11:25 AM
#17
Safety Car
Thread Starter
My cradles needed to be ground b/c there was metal-metal contact, not b/c the poly wouldn't fit.
VBP bushings are two piece, so nobody is blazing new ground here. Given how the bushings work, any loss in strength might be impossible to measure. Given how poly reacts when it is squished in a space that is too small (think squeezing a balloon), this solution is sensible.
Or, just ignore all the advice of people that have successfully installed these.
VBP bushings are two piece, so nobody is blazing new ground here. Given how the bushings work, any loss in strength might be impossible to measure. Given how poly reacts when it is squished in a space that is too small (think squeezing a balloon), this solution is sensible.
Or, just ignore all the advice of people that have successfully installed these.
03-18-2011, 12:35 PM
#18
Race Director
The only you can not split are the ones for the rear shock absorber mounts.
The real mounting of the bushings (control arms) is the center pin area. The bushing itself reduces deflection (movement) which is the main reason that track guys use these.
VBP has used the split bushing design for years because they figured out that GM's control arms are not all the same dimensions inside diameter of control arms.
What happens if you're smaller on the diameter is that you get too much bushing hanging out the ends and thus you can not fit the control arm back into the cradle.
Hope that answers your questions. I really wish that Aaron would post better installation instructions and guidance on using his products.
I have had several discussions with him over the years regarding the lack of instuctions, etc... Not everyody is an engineer or has their own super garage to install these products.
Tony
03-18-2011, 12:36 PM
#19
What we found out when we installed the bushings was that GM had various tolerances in the control arm measurements.
What you need to do is cut all of the bushings in half and then grind down the bushing ends that go inside so the bushings sit flush against the outside of the arm.
What you need to do is cut all of the bushings in half and then grind down the bushing ends that go inside so the bushings sit flush against the outside of the arm.
03-18-2011, 12:39 PM
#20
Race Director
Pull out the bushing, cut in half, and then gring down the centers until you have a bit of clearance between the two.