Good Cam?
05-15-2011, 02:06 PM
#1
Instructor
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Good Cam?
I want to cam my stock 97' c5 (LS1), are there any recommendations of a good cam to run on stock heads? If not, whats the best deal on a head/cam package?
05-15-2011, 03:30 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Depends on what your goals are and your car's intended use
IF you need to pass smog in a strict state like calif---the cam should be no greater than about .225/.225 @50 duration--lift doesn't matter and the LSA should be NO LOWER than 114.
If smog is not an issue--an average middle cam size is perfect for DD ocasional drag type car--If you go thru all the trouble to change cams--the most common issue is getting one too small----Old sch says to do all your homework 1st--pick out a cam for your use expectations--THEN go one size bigger !!! This would be something in the under or slightly over .230 range---@ a 114 LSA---Going to a lower LSA will make it idle more thumpier--as it usually creates more valve overlap-- (increases HC's and smog)
114 or higher smooths out the idle--espcially on an automatic with a stock stall conveter--idle and surging become an issue
Going much larger in duration than .230 will make just a little more HP but then your stock heads become the limiting factor on airflow-
ANY cam especially with an automatic larger than .220 will absolutely require tuning--
ALSO remember as you increase duration you move the RPM power band up higher---So to get the anticipated HP increase you'll need to shift at a higher RPM to take the advantage of the cam--again fixed with tuning
A stock cam starts making usable power at 1500 and signs off around 5800 to 6000 RPM
A .220ish cam starts at around 1800 and signs off at around 6200
A 230ish in at 2000 and caps at around 6400
A .240ish in at 2700 and caps at around 6800-7000
When going beyond .220 with a stock converter it becomes difficult to hold the car still at a stop as you have to inccrease the idle up to around 800 and the converter wants to pull---A stall converter will eliminate this as it is looser down low-
Bottom line-- depending on your goals--
Daily driver without tuning and able to pass smog ---under .220
Daily driver occasional dragging--smogable--requires tuninng -- .220 ish
Daily driver more racing---not smogable--tuning requrd- around .230 ish
This is probaly the best choice and what I would do with Stock heads
IF you need to pass smog in a strict state like calif---the cam should be no greater than about .225/.225 @50 duration--lift doesn't matter and the LSA should be NO LOWER than 114.
If smog is not an issue--an average middle cam size is perfect for DD ocasional drag type car--If you go thru all the trouble to change cams--the most common issue is getting one too small----Old sch says to do all your homework 1st--pick out a cam for your use expectations--THEN go one size bigger !!! This would be something in the under or slightly over .230 range---@ a 114 LSA---Going to a lower LSA will make it idle more thumpier--as it usually creates more valve overlap-- (increases HC's and smog)
114 or higher smooths out the idle--espcially on an automatic with a stock stall conveter--idle and surging become an issue
Going much larger in duration than .230 will make just a little more HP but then your stock heads become the limiting factor on airflow-
ANY cam especially with an automatic larger than .220 will absolutely require tuning--
ALSO remember as you increase duration you move the RPM power band up higher---So to get the anticipated HP increase you'll need to shift at a higher RPM to take the advantage of the cam--again fixed with tuning
A stock cam starts making usable power at 1500 and signs off around 5800 to 6000 RPM
A .220ish cam starts at around 1800 and signs off at around 6200
A 230ish in at 2000 and caps at around 6400
A .240ish in at 2700 and caps at around 6800-7000
When going beyond .220 with a stock converter it becomes difficult to hold the car still at a stop as you have to inccrease the idle up to around 800 and the converter wants to pull---A stall converter will eliminate this as it is looser down low-
Bottom line-- depending on your goals--
Daily driver without tuning and able to pass smog ---under .220
Daily driver occasional dragging--smogable--requires tuninng -- .220 ish
Daily driver more racing---not smogable--tuning requrd- around .230 ish
This is probaly the best choice and what I would do with Stock heads
05-15-2011, 05:25 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
Depends on what your goals are and your car's intended use
IF you need to pass smog in a strict state like calif---the cam should be no greater than about .225/.225 @50 duration--lift doesn't matter and the LSA should be NO LOWER than 114.
If smog is not an issue--an average middle cam size is perfect for DD ocasional drag type car--If you go thru all the trouble to change cams--the most common issue is getting one too small----Old sch says to do all your homework 1st--pick out a cam for your use expectations--THEN go one size bigger !!! This would be something in the under or slightly over .230 range---@ a 114 LSA---Going to a lower LSA will make it idle more thumpier--as it usually creates more valve overlap-- (increases HC's and smog)
114 or higher smooths out the idle--espcially on an automatic with a stock stall conveter--idle and surging become an issue
Going much larger in duration than .230 will make just a little more HP but then your stock heads become the limiting factor on airflow-
ANY cam especially with an automatic larger than .220 will absolutely require tuning--
ALSO remember as you increase duration you move the RPM power band up higher---So to get the anticipated HP increase you'll need to shift at a higher RPM to take the advantage of the cam--again fixed with tuning
A stock cam starts making usable power at 1500 and signs off around 5800 to 6000 RPM
A .220ish cam starts at around 1800 and signs off at around 6200
A 230ish in at 2000 and caps at around 6400
A .240ish in at 2700 and caps at around 6800-7000
When going beyond .220 with a stock converter it becomes difficult to hold the car still at a stop as you have to inccrease the idle up to around 800 and the converter wants to pull---A stall converter will eliminate this as it is looser down low-
Bottom line-- depending on your goals--
Daily driver without tuning and able to pass smog ---under .220
Daily driver occasional dragging--smogable--requires tuninng -- .220 ish
Daily driver more racing---not smogable--tuning requrd- around .230 ish
This is probaly the best choice and what I would do with Stock heads
IF you need to pass smog in a strict state like calif---the cam should be no greater than about .225/.225 @50 duration--lift doesn't matter and the LSA should be NO LOWER than 114.
If smog is not an issue--an average middle cam size is perfect for DD ocasional drag type car--If you go thru all the trouble to change cams--the most common issue is getting one too small----Old sch says to do all your homework 1st--pick out a cam for your use expectations--THEN go one size bigger !!! This would be something in the under or slightly over .230 range---@ a 114 LSA---Going to a lower LSA will make it idle more thumpier--as it usually creates more valve overlap-- (increases HC's and smog)
114 or higher smooths out the idle--espcially on an automatic with a stock stall conveter--idle and surging become an issue
Going much larger in duration than .230 will make just a little more HP but then your stock heads become the limiting factor on airflow-
ANY cam especially with an automatic larger than .220 will absolutely require tuning--
ALSO remember as you increase duration you move the RPM power band up higher---So to get the anticipated HP increase you'll need to shift at a higher RPM to take the advantage of the cam--again fixed with tuning
A stock cam starts making usable power at 1500 and signs off around 5800 to 6000 RPM
A .220ish cam starts at around 1800 and signs off at around 6200
A 230ish in at 2000 and caps at around 6400
A .240ish in at 2700 and caps at around 6800-7000
When going beyond .220 with a stock converter it becomes difficult to hold the car still at a stop as you have to inccrease the idle up to around 800 and the converter wants to pull---A stall converter will eliminate this as it is looser down low-
Bottom line-- depending on your goals--
Daily driver without tuning and able to pass smog ---under .220
Daily driver occasional dragging--smogable--requires tuninng -- .220 ish
Daily driver more racing---not smogable--tuning requrd- around .230 ish
This is probaly the best choice and what I would do with Stock heads
Last edited by Blow Torch; 05-15-2011 at 07:54 PM.
05-15-2011, 06:15 PM
#5
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CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
You might have well made a post labeled " Whats the best bear?" 
You're going to get a VAST response and all be what each person likes. VERY SUGGESTIVE!
For a more informative post,, Please post what your budget is, what your HP/TQ goals are and what other mods your willing to add.
Also post what your state emissions requirements are..
Once you pass the 400 RWHP ZONE Clutch/ Converter improvements also need to be considered..
BC
You're going to get a VAST response and all be what each person likes. VERY SUGGESTIVE!
For a more informative post,, Please post what your budget is, what your HP/TQ goals are and what other mods your willing to add.
Also post what your state emissions requirements are..
Once you pass the 400 RWHP ZONE Clutch/ Converter improvements also need to be considered..
BC
05-16-2011, 06:44 AM
#6
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however, with the older 799 heads with do not flow much above .560 - .575 cam lift
Which means 224 / 228 581 / 588 may be the max cam that will work best with those 799 heads.
Which means 224 / 228 581 / 588 may be the max cam that will work best with those 799 heads.
05-16-2011, 08:22 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
Got the 228R recommended by Texas Speed and Performance. I asked for a cam with stock LS1 heads and power in the mid to high end RPM range.
I do have a 6speed so that made it easier.
There have been quite a few of us with the 228R and couldn't be happier with it's performance. YouTubing the "228R" will get lot's of videos from users.
I do have a 6speed so that made it easier.
There have been quite a few of us with the 228R and couldn't be happier with it's performance. YouTubing the "228R" will get lot's of videos from users.
05-16-2011, 01:33 PM
#8
Instructor
Not true about the LSA should be no lower then 114 for smog. I live in the Los Angeles area with the strictest smog regulations. I have an LS1 with a GM HOTCAM LSA of 112. Great lope at idle. Its all in the tuning. When I get a smog check I can be putting out 3 times the emissions and still pass. I'm sure I could pass with a 110.
05-16-2011, 05:01 PM
#9
Race Director
Not true about the LSA should be no lower then 114 for smog. I live in the Los Angeles area with the strictest smog regulations. I have an LS1 with a GM HOTCAM LSA of 112. Great lope at idle. Its all in the tuning. When I get a smog check I can be putting out 3 times the emissions and still pass. I'm sure I could pass with a 110.
05-17-2011, 02:38 AM
#12
Instructor
OK I'll say it different. Sorry for the confusion. My tailpipe emissions are about one third of what I'm allowed. 112 LSA runs very clean. It's just a tune issue. And there was another part of that post that bothered me also. "114 or higher smooths out the idle--espcially on an automatic with a stock stall conveter--idle and surging become an issue" Idle and surging are also just tuning issues. You can make a 112 or a 110 idle rock solid. No surging even with an automatic.
05-17-2011, 01:11 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion--and that is what mine is--my opinion-- STOCK C5 and F body cams are all around 117 LSA and some as high as 120
It's common knowledge that lowering the LSA creates overlap and increases hydrocarbons and higher LSA's smooth out the idle
The GM LS "Hot Cam" is notorious for being difficult to tune--I have tuned 50-75 of them--They are a dirty cam-they can make decent power but not very street friendly--especially on an A4---It's a known fact in the tuning world
As far as tuning a 110 or 112 LSA cam I don't see your point as i said they are tunable and any cam cam be tuned to idle and NOT surge---But tuning IS required
ALSO most any cam can be tuned to pass smog--But just temporalily by tricking the ECM and running a true "open loop" tune at the smog shop--But I would never run the car like that all the time-It would run horribly and could damage the engine.
There could be many reasons why your car passsed.
Installing some new cats cleans up a tons of smog issues that are cam related--A temporary tune can make it pass ( this is what I usually have to do on a Hot Cam)---All somg machines read differently-- Some smog shops just adjust their machine so it allows you to pass-
I have tried to get some hot cams to pass--with tuning alone-But it takes hours of trial and error--and still may not be successful---If the car has LT headers---they never pass with a Hot Cam-
Botton line why gamble with one when there are so many better choices out there that will run clean--take less tuning to make it start-idle and not surge-and make more HP--
I'm just telling the poster that why gamble with a cam selection when there is info out there that will guarantee smog results and HP expectaions--
It's common knowledge that lowering the LSA creates overlap and increases hydrocarbons and higher LSA's smooth out the idle
The GM LS "Hot Cam" is notorious for being difficult to tune--I have tuned 50-75 of them--They are a dirty cam-they can make decent power but not very street friendly--especially on an A4---It's a known fact in the tuning world
As far as tuning a 110 or 112 LSA cam I don't see your point as i said they are tunable and any cam cam be tuned to idle and NOT surge---But tuning IS required
ALSO most any cam can be tuned to pass smog--But just temporalily by tricking the ECM and running a true "open loop" tune at the smog shop--But I would never run the car like that all the time-It would run horribly and could damage the engine.
There could be many reasons why your car passsed.
Installing some new cats cleans up a tons of smog issues that are cam related--A temporary tune can make it pass ( this is what I usually have to do on a Hot Cam)---All somg machines read differently-- Some smog shops just adjust their machine so it allows you to pass-
I have tried to get some hot cams to pass--with tuning alone-But it takes hours of trial and error--and still may not be successful---If the car has LT headers---they never pass with a Hot Cam-
Botton line why gamble with one when there are so many better choices out there that will run clean--take less tuning to make it start-idle and not surge-and make more HP--
I'm just telling the poster that why gamble with a cam selection when there is info out there that will guarantee smog results and HP expectaions--
05-17-2011, 01:44 PM
#14
Instructor
Wow I don't know what to say to that. The Hot Cam was a little tricky to tune but I did. No tuning shop required. At first I thought I would have to load in a smog only tune to pass but soon realized that wasn't the case at all. Motor runs very strong and healthy. It is my favorite cam. Use the Z06 springs and that's it! No worries about broken springs or ever having to change them. Reliability same as a stock motor! However I must admit I got a few great tips from the guys at Thunder Racing. Their opinion on tuning the GM HOT CAM - Nothing to it!
