dadaroo

I just learned of this and thought I would share since I have never heard of it on this Forum, but IT IS TRUE.

I don’t like the idea of breaking my block because of this issue. Here is a picture of the new design and a link to the horror stories of the old design. The link inside this one will take you to the pictures of the broken block and others who have had the same problem. GM redesigned the starter to address this issue but have not heard of a recall. I guess they did not have enough warranty failures to justify it.

I have been active in 3 different Forums for 3 years and this is the first I have heard of this. You can think about this every time you turn the key until you look under your car.

The new design takes 2 long bolts due to the larger flange on the starter. This shows the one short bolt installed for comparison.





For the full story:

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...d.php?t=208609

Smoken1

Isn't that what GM would call Job Security?

Dcollins3208

Why is it that the short bolt design is susceptible to this and not the long bolt design (posted this in another thread that Safari mentioned this in but decided to move it here). Or is the long bolt design still susceptible?

dadaroo

The new starter design has better load resistance/distribution for loads including shear loads. It appears that once the starter begins to break then there are bending moments introduced to break the block tab/mount. GM obvious recognized the design flaw and created this fix.

It is not just one longer bolt per say, but the increased load distribution in the starter that prevents it from breaking. If you look at the two starter designs it is more clear. GM may have increased the block mount in later engine block design also, I am not sure about that.

It is just something that no one wants to happen. I plan to upgrade my car as soon as I can.

Dcollins3208

Yes an upgrade is in the near future for myself as well. I'd rather spend another 150 or so than a couple hundred to a couple thousand

dadaroo

I have two friends who are doing the same thing. I just wanted to spread the word since in 3 years of following C5 issues this one just became apparent to me. Very cheap insurance indeed.

Smoken1

I'll be checking mine today and replacing it if I have the old design

dr_whigham

Been known on LS1Tech for years now. That's taken out a few nice motors that I know of, one being a sleeved 427 LS6 (search LS6427's history on Tech)

He was lucky to get a well-versed welder over to his house and fix it on Jackstands.

NITRO UK

Hi guys ,just a fyi .

Not sure what a GM starter costs , but I got one of these ,seems well built and tough .

Think Sac city on here are doing them for $170 ish .

baxsom

Man this sucks. I hate to spend money on a problem that might happen. Part number of the newer design?

Evilash

Went into the alignment pit while killing time on the forum in the waiting area and discovered this issue. Of course the ls2 crate reused the original ls1 starter.
Just ordered one on the auction place brand new shipped for $62. Pic shows the long bolt version.
Yet another mod that isn't a mod but a preemptive strike.
Now I get to see how much trouble it will be with dynatech long tubes.

DanSavage

Any idea what MY GM went to the new design?

dadaroo

Dan, sent you a PM with my number if you want to discuss. Mr. Sam

bj1k

The reason that the old original design starter causes the problem is because the tab on the short bolt side of the starter is too small and breaks off , causing all of the weight and torque of the starter to be put on the outside long bolt which is located at the outside of the engine block with the threads only being about 3/8 inch from the outside of the block which understandably rips the outside edge off of the block. Sometimes being caused by hydrolock of the engine , but can happen just from a backfire of the engine while starting or just age of a weak starter tab. People will spend thousands for mods that are pretty , why wouldn't you spend a couple hundred dollars to prevent a probable catastrophe to your engine. My car only had 20k. miles and no starter problems and I replaced it with a "brand new" ( Delco Remy sold at Auto Zone Auto Parts Part #989559 DL89702S ) LIFETIME WARRANTY Forgetaboutit !

Bill Curlee

You mean like THIS???



Repaired in place by a Submarine Nuclear Welder. The Guy had his SHI$ together!!
Borrowed my buddys TIG Welder. When he was done, it was better than new. Didnt even have to helicoil the threaded hole.
The fractured fit part was put back in place, clamped and tac welded. The damaged section was V cut to allow penetration and TIG Welded back on.

Bill

bj1k

Thank You , I couldn't have described it any better !

sunchaser73

Are there any known cases of this happening to the cast iron LQ9 block? Is it a function of the aluminum and/or casting method, or is it purely due to the stress placed on the block due to the starter design?

I read Junkman's epic saga on Digital Corvette...and a few other threads I could find. The common denominator is the aluminum block. I didn't see any cases where this happened to an iron block, so I am curious.

MAC5

Does anyone have the GM/Delco part number for the updated starter? Would like to do some price checking.

Dcollins3208

Also, does anyone have the torque specs for the starter nuts? Specifically the main one that goes from battery>starter>alternator. Mine comes loose ever so often and I am weary of tightening it too tight as I have snapped the stud off (twice ) when it didn't even seem to be tight.

norcalace

I'm wondering how many of these failures happened on engines that have had their original starters removed and/or replaced prior to the failures. If the short sided bolt or both bolts for that matter were not tightened to specs or loosened after installed this would shock the starter bendix housing as well as the mounting boss on the block resulting in the broken parts. I would venture to guess the starter and block broke simultaneously. I'm not advocating against upgrading to the new design starter just trying to understand what could be the root cause in the first place. If not installed with the bolts tightened to specs or loosening I would bet a new design starter may cause the block to fail also.

My starter has never been out so I'm not going to check the torque on the bolts (let sleeping dogs lie) but I did reach down and put a paint mark on the short side bolt where you can see it in the block from above. I'll check it periodically to see if there is any movement.