FRiCK916

So the car has been apart several times and I got new rear tires and the front are about 3 years old with 10k miles on them, with minimal camber wear on inside edges as the car has been lowered about 1/2"... anyways the car was aligned to pfadt's least aggressive specs and I left the car had a right pull and felt very "darty" wanting to go left right left right.. I had to chase the wheel at all times it seemed...

First alignment:




And this is their 2nd attempt to correct my complaints of right pull and "darty" feeling. He wrote on the invoice.. "fine tuned alignment, still pulling R, suggest swapping front tires to check for radial tire pull".

Gordy M

Check with the alignment shop and determine what they call toe in and toe out. Some machines use a positive number for toe in. If that is the case, then the alignment looks OK and you have adverse tire wear in the front tires.

mrr23

Look into the front tires for abnormal wear. If anything the car should be pulling left now with that much caster spread of -0.70. Should only need about -0.30 cross caster.

Edit: read your comments about inside tire wear. Most likely left tire is worn more than the right one. Camber wear gives you a conical wear across the tire. Think like a paper cup. one side is a little taller than the other side. Can see with a tire depth gauge measuring across the tire.

Signed the alignment guy

FRiCK916

Which is what they told me... they didn't like that they had to put that much in it... and they also said on paper it should have a left pull. I'll be looking into some new fronts... thanks guys.

racebum

more rear toe in will help with stability. you already have more caster and more toe than most, it could just be the tires

toe the rear in to .10 each side, that can calm a car down and make straight line stability much better

lionelhutz

The fronts have too much toe in. The front toe values are not equal. The rears are both pointing left. The rear thrust angle should be 0. I'm assuming that a positive toe number is toe-in.

mrr23

You think .01* difference in toe up front is causing an issue really?

I'll agree the rear should have been the same .02 instead of the left being -.02. But minor still.

Yes positive number on toe is inward.

Signed- the alignment guy

lionelhutz

He asked what people thought. I think it looks a little sketchy.

I also noticed that the first time on the rack the car initially had major toe-out on the front wheels which was changed to toe-in but then the second time on the rack it initially had toe out again. If they put 0.07* toe-in the first time how's it change to 0.15* of toe out the 2nd time the car was put back on the rack? This makes me question the competence of the shop. Either something is wrong with the car or something is wrong with their methods.

mrr23

You can align a vehicle, pull it off the rack, go drive it, recheck it and it will not give the exact same readings. There will be some minor variances.

In your original post, you had concerns over very minor variances that has absolutely no bearing on the issue at hand. None of what you originally posted would ever contribute to the pull the car has.

As far as the competency of the shop goes, they nailed it when they said check the tires.

Now as far as the variances between the first and second time, even to me it is a bit much. Could be slightly worn control arm bushings or a bolt didn't get tight enough and slipped.

lionelhutz

How competent is the shop if they are aligning the car twice without noticing the initial toe out both times? Or without noticing the issue causes the front alignment to go toe out after it comes off the rack? Or, leaving a bolt loose that is causing it?

mrr23

How would they not notice the toe out when it's right on the screen in front of them and on the printout?

I'll reword my last statement. Not tight enough that it slips slight while driving it. In my 14 years of doing alignments, it has happened to me. Tightened the bolt down only for it to slip after the owner drives it. These are eccentric washer bolts. And I use a 4 foot breaker bar to tighten these bolts down. Over time the bolts stretch and lose their ability to stay tight. And this is just one possibility. I've had the wheel adapter slip while doing the alignment. And before you go why didn't the incompetent shop see that, can you see 1/32" movement? You're better than me on that one.i figured it out when the customer brought it back and I saw the amount of number changes with no loose bolts. Things happen.

The op even said in his initial post he knew his tires had inner wear before the first alignment.

So again anything you've written has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. And the shop is plenty competent.

lionelhutz

Some people are too touchy. The front toe changed by 0.22* between alignments. No matter what the cause, there is no good excuse for no saying something about that. If no explanation can be found for that change then it should really be checked a 3rd time to ensure the alignment has stayed correct.

Of course, worn components and changing alignments have nothing to do with how the car drives....

racebum

this is my opinion too after thinking about it

a car with an off alignment will wear tires in that groove, when the alignment is corrected the tires will still have uneven wear and won't behave like they should. the situation may correct itself in a few thousand miles of driving

mrr23

Depends on how bad the wear is. Once a tire is worn a certain way, it stays that way. You would have to catch it real early to get the wear out.

mrr23

How do you know they didn't talk with the op about it? After all, they did mention the tires....

And who knows, the op may have a worn control arm bushing you can't see without removing the arms to see.