Bone Stock - $5000 To Spend
12-26-2014, 01:47 AM
#1
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Bone Stock - $5000 To Spend
I have a bone stock 2002 Z06 and I'm wondering what the best way to spend my money is. I want to stay NA for now, and I can do all the labor myself. It's a weekend car, but I would still like decent street manners. I will also be doing as many track days as possible. Any help would really be appreciated!
EDIT: I am only interested in engine upgrades at this point. I will set aside more money for the clutch, suspension, tires, etc, but for now I want the most power I can get with 5 grand.
EDIT: I am only interested in engine upgrades at this point. I will set aside more money for the clutch, suspension, tires, etc, but for now I want the most power I can get with 5 grand.
Last edited by BostonGeorge; 12-26-2014 at 04:02 PM.
12-26-2014, 10:28 AM
#2
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St. Jude Donor '08
George
When you change the performance of you engine,, it effects MANY other components.
My first voyage into performance up-grades for my 02 ZO6 were:
Stainless Works LT SS Headers, high flow CATs Ported Throttle Body, VARARAM and a professional TUNE.
I was able to achieve 390 RWHP and 280 Tq. The car was happy at that level. It was fun for a while until I got whipped by a heavily modded WRX!
MORE POWER!!
Next came the Ported Heads, head studs, big valves, better lifters and springs, higher compression, BIG CAM, Powerbond damper, Ported FAST 90, 90 mm TB and ANOTHER TUNE.
I MADE A WRX KILLER!
As soon as it was tuned and making 450 RWHP, the Clutch pedal stuck to the floor under full power runs. Had to replace the clutch and all associated stuff, bullet proof the differential, better shocks, etc ect.. I even went as far as to replace the stock MN12 trans with a TRANZILLA T-60/60 with a hardened output shaft transmission. That was a decision that I made on my own. Your trans will be good.
So,, you can see,, your $5000 budget, may get A LOT bigger by necessity.
YES, I went back and ANILATED that WRX!
In hind sight, I "WISH" I would have went straight to Forced Induction. Its more money but worth it. Yes, I would have still had to do the drivetrain up-grades but, the drivability of the car would be better.
My car is fun to drive and is fast.
Just relaying my experiences with modding..
What are you HP GOALS for the car??
When you change the performance of you engine,, it effects MANY other components.
My first voyage into performance up-grades for my 02 ZO6 were:
Stainless Works LT SS Headers, high flow CATs Ported Throttle Body, VARARAM and a professional TUNE.
I was able to achieve 390 RWHP and 280 Tq. The car was happy at that level. It was fun for a while until I got whipped by a heavily modded WRX!
MORE POWER!!Next came the Ported Heads, head studs, big valves, better lifters and springs, higher compression, BIG CAM, Powerbond damper, Ported FAST 90, 90 mm TB and ANOTHER TUNE.
I MADE A WRX KILLER!
As soon as it was tuned and making 450 RWHP, the Clutch pedal stuck to the floor under full power runs. Had to replace the clutch and all associated stuff, bullet proof the differential, better shocks, etc ect.. I even went as far as to replace the stock MN12 trans with a TRANZILLA T-60/60 with a hardened output shaft transmission. That was a decision that I made on my own. Your trans will be good.
So,, you can see,, your $5000 budget, may get A LOT bigger by necessity.
YES, I went back and ANILATED that WRX!
In hind sight, I "WISH" I would have went straight to Forced Induction. Its more money but worth it. Yes, I would have still had to do the drivetrain up-grades but, the drivability of the car would be better.
My car is fun to drive and is fast.
Just relaying my experiences with modding..
What are you HP GOALS for the car??
Last edited by Bill Curlee; 12-26-2014 at 10:46 AM.
12-26-2014, 10:52 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
OP, I think you need to explain what TRACK days mean. Road course, drag strip or both.
I love hill climbs but that is not normally called a "tracK'.
I have no recommendations because of my lack of experience in modifying a C5 but guys like Bill and others do. Good luck, the money can go fast but if you do the work it will slow the bleeding.
I love hill climbs but that is not normally called a "tracK'.
I have no recommendations because of my lack of experience in modifying a C5 but guys like Bill and others do. Good luck, the money can go fast but if you do the work it will slow the bleeding.
12-26-2014, 12:00 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
If by track days you mean AutoX or road course then I would say invest the money in the suspension and maybe add a little power and a clutch.
This: https://www.lgmotorsports.com/corvet...r-package.html
Since that's pretty expensive, I would then add an intake (Halltech) and an X-Pipe in place of the factory H. You can keep the titanium axle-back to save money, and get it dyno tuned. Those things would add up to about $1k.
And then a nice grabby clutch like a Monster Stage 2 or 3.
So you would probably add ~20hp, have a clutch that can take the abuse and the suspension to take on just about any street car around a road course.
If you have anything left over, get a nice set of sticky tires.
This: https://www.lgmotorsports.com/corvet...r-package.html
Since that's pretty expensive, I would then add an intake (Halltech) and an X-Pipe in place of the factory H. You can keep the titanium axle-back to save money, and get it dyno tuned. Those things would add up to about $1k.
And then a nice grabby clutch like a Monster Stage 2 or 3.
So you would probably add ~20hp, have a clutch that can take the abuse and the suspension to take on just about any street car around a road course.
If you have anything left over, get a nice set of sticky tires.
12-26-2014, 12:03 PM
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OP, I think you need to explain what TRACK days mean. Road course, drag strip or both.
I love hill climbs but that is not normally called a "tracK'.
I have no recommendations because of my lack of experience in modifying a C5 but guys like Bill and others do. Good luck, the money can go fast but if you do the work it will slow the bleeding.
I love hill climbs but that is not normally called a "tracK'.
I have no recommendations because of my lack of experience in modifying a C5 but guys like Bill and others do. Good luck, the money can go fast but if you do the work it will slow the bleeding.
EDIT: does the Z06 really need an upgraded suspension? It's probably a good idea but of course I want to gain some power.
I see that TSP has a 383 stroker kit. Is that a good idea or bad idea? I hate the thought of notching my block...
As far as heads, what do you recommend? If I stick with the stock cubes, what size heads should I run? 205cc, 220cc? Bigger than that?
What cams do you recommend? I see a lot of people recommending a 224 cam for a street car. I also see a lot of people say they wish they would have gone bigger. What is the most duration you can have without bucking or terrible street manners? I also don't want a car that has all of its power at the top end.
For intakes is the Vararam a good bet? I see a lot of people that like it, but I also see a lot of people saying the quality and fitment is bad. Is a Haltech intake better?
As far as exhaust, I guess just get some long tubes and leave the rest? I do want the car to sound good and be loud. Not obnoxious loud, or loud enough to get pulled over, but loud enough that they know I'm not driving a Prius.
Last edited by BostonGeorge; 12-26-2014 at 12:33 PM.
12-26-2014, 12:38 PM
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St. Jude Donor '08
OH BROTHER!! 
Your going to need more than $5K to get a RELIABLE 450 RWHP set up. When you factor in all the stuff that makes the car go down the road reliably, it adds up really quick.
I have $8000 in mine easily and that doesn't include the new T-60-60 trans. You can cut corners and replace the weakest link parts as they break. That isn't any fun and sometimes results in spending a WHOLE LOT MORE CASH
Example: Theres a story here and ill try to be short.
Adding that much power you will find traction non existent on anything but really good sticky tires. When you increase traction, you will severely stress OEM drive train parts. Things Like differential output shafts and Torque Tube Bushings come to mind.
If your not careful and don't control wheel hop, you will destroy the differential which can and usually snaps off the transmission output shaft. (There's that new transmission I was mentioning)
I disassembled my differential and installed C6 ZO6 hard parts (output shafts, new clutches, RPM Hardened spider cross shaft and new Belleview Springs. I also added an ESC Brace just to be on the safe side.
Check out these post on making your differential better for less cash:
- C5, ragtopws6 , Upgrading your C5 rear with C6 Z06 guts, : http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...-z06-guts.html
-
- C5, Its_Go_Time, Output Shaft Install - Left and Right: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...post1573407966
- C5 Differential Seal replacement: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...on-photos.html
-
There are engine parts that I added to increase reliability that some say are not needed:
New Caddy Racing Lifters
ARP Head Studs! (Once you go with head studs, you wont go back to bolts)
ARP Damper bolt
Powerbond Damper
Timing Chain dampener (for the C5) ("Yours most likely has the OEM bolt holes for the dampener")
Who is going to tune your engine once it modded???
Bill
Your going to need more than $5K to get a RELIABLE 450 RWHP set up. When you factor in all the stuff that makes the car go down the road reliably, it adds up really quick.I have $8000 in mine easily and that doesn't include the new T-60-60 trans. You can cut corners and replace the weakest link parts as they break. That isn't any fun and sometimes results in spending a WHOLE LOT MORE CASH
Example: Theres a story here and ill try to be short.
Adding that much power you will find traction non existent on anything but really good sticky tires. When you increase traction, you will severely stress OEM drive train parts. Things Like differential output shafts and Torque Tube Bushings come to mind.
If your not careful and don't control wheel hop, you will destroy the differential which can and usually snaps off the transmission output shaft. (There's that new transmission I was mentioning)
I disassembled my differential and installed C6 ZO6 hard parts (output shafts, new clutches, RPM Hardened spider cross shaft and new Belleview Springs. I also added an ESC Brace just to be on the safe side.
Check out these post on making your differential better for less cash:
- C5, ragtopws6 , Upgrading your C5 rear with C6 Z06 guts, : http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...-z06-guts.html
-
- C5, Its_Go_Time, Output Shaft Install - Left and Right: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...post1573407966
- C5 Differential Seal replacement: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...on-photos.html
-
There are engine parts that I added to increase reliability that some say are not needed:
New Caddy Racing Lifters
ARP Head Studs! (Once you go with head studs, you wont go back to bolts)
ARP Damper bolt
Powerbond Damper
Timing Chain dampener (for the C5) ("Yours most likely has the OEM bolt holes for the dampener")
Who is going to tune your engine once it modded???
Bill
12-26-2014, 01:02 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
By track days I mean road courses. My goal is at least 450whp.
For intakes is the Vararam a good bet? I see a lot of people that like it, but I also see a lot of people saying the quality and fitment is bad. Is a Haltech intake better?
As far as exhaust, I guess just get some long tubes and leave the rest? I do want the car to sound good and be loud. Not obnoxious loud, or loud enough to get pulled over, but loud enough that they know I'm not driving a Prius.
For intakes is the Vararam a good bet? I see a lot of people that like it, but I also see a lot of people saying the quality and fitment is bad. Is a Haltech intake better?
As far as exhaust, I guess just get some long tubes and leave the rest? I do want the car to sound good and be loud. Not obnoxious loud, or loud enough to get pulled over, but loud enough that they know I'm not driving a Prius.
I have a Blackwing intake on my setup, but the new Haltech is the way to go. My friend picked up 10hp going from the Blackwing to the haltech. he has a 427 and the smaller maf was choking it.
the stroker would be nice for roadracing, you cant beat the extra torque of cubes. And it would be easier to hit your HP goal.
Im at 430rwhp with Trickflow 215s, ARHeaders, 231/237 CAM.
12-26-2014, 01:16 PM
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Long tubes and Z06 mufflers sound great, its what I have on mine.
I have a Blackwing intake on my setup, but the new Haltech is the way to go. My friend picked up 10hp going from the Blackwing to the haltech. he has a 427 and the smaller maf was choking it.
the stroker would be nice for roadracing, you cant beat the extra torque of cubes. And it would be easier to hit your HP goal.
Im at 430rwhp with Trickflow 215s, ARHeaders, 231/237 CAM.
I have a Blackwing intake on my setup, but the new Haltech is the way to go. My friend picked up 10hp going from the Blackwing to the haltech. he has a 427 and the smaller maf was choking it.
the stroker would be nice for roadracing, you cant beat the extra torque of cubes. And it would be easier to hit your HP goal.
Im at 430rwhp with Trickflow 215s, ARHeaders, 231/237 CAM.
12-26-2014, 03:02 PM
#9
Instructor
I would do these items:
Tires, shocks, sway bars & brake pads. Using your current power effectively will bring you into another realm of possibilities and enjoyment. Learn to drive the car then replace your cars weak points as you see fit.
Tires, shocks, sway bars & brake pads. Using your current power effectively will bring you into another realm of possibilities and enjoyment. Learn to drive the car then replace your cars weak points as you see fit.
12-26-2014, 04:05 PM
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I was hoping people would start listing tried and true combos. What heads, what cam, what headers, etc. I figured it would be fun for people to look at a blank canvas and say "do this, but not this!"
12-26-2014, 06:01 PM
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St. Jude Donor '08
Ide say, easily 430 RWHP and here is what I used to get 450 RWHP
-Patriot Performance Heads 12.5:1 ratio, Ti retainers, Patriot Gold Springs
- Custom Grind Comp Cam 240s duration/ 610 Lift at 114+4
- Caddy Racing Lifters
- Fast 90 Intake manifold. I ported it my self
- 90mm Throttle Body Ported myself
- Vararam
- Powerbond 25% under drive damper
- LS2 timing chain
- C5 Timing Chain damper
- 42 lb/hr Injectors
-
Reliability Stuff
ARP Head studs
ARP Damper Bolt
Comp Cams Rocker Trunion Up Grade
Im sure I forgot something.
Hope this helps
Bill
-Patriot Performance Heads 12.5:1 ratio, Ti retainers, Patriot Gold Springs
- Custom Grind Comp Cam 240s duration/ 610 Lift at 114+4
- Caddy Racing Lifters
- Fast 90 Intake manifold. I ported it my self
- 90mm Throttle Body Ported myself
- Vararam
- Powerbond 25% under drive damper
- LS2 timing chain
- C5 Timing Chain damper
- 42 lb/hr Injectors
-
Reliability Stuff
ARP Head studs
ARP Damper Bolt
Comp Cams Rocker Trunion Up Grade
Im sure I forgot something.
Hope this helps
Bill
12-26-2014, 06:18 PM
#12
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Thank you, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
I have an amateur question... I really like the idea of stroking the engine, but does notching the block hurt anything? Does it weaken the block in any way? Any downsides at all?
I have an amateur question... I really like the idea of stroking the engine, but does notching the block hurt anything? Does it weaken the block in any way? Any downsides at all?
12-26-2014, 10:54 PM
#14
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St. Jude Donor '14
A forged rotating assembly will not give you more power unless you using a stroker crank. If you install a "Big cam" without a good set of valve springs, you can kiss your engine good bye.
This thread is less than 24 hours old. What were you thinking when you posted the following.
"I appreciate all of the people that have replied so far, but I really expected more replies by now. I guess people are either jealous or have no clue."
Who exacting would be jealous? Of what?
There are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum. Bill Curlee to name one. Many others didn't respond to your thread probably because your first post shows you didn't do much research.
I will never understand why people ask for help/advice from people who have been there, done that and then ignore it.
Which road courses have you run? What car did you drive, the z or something else?
Have fun with your car! Good luck And be safe.
This thread is less than 24 hours old. What were you thinking when you posted the following.
"I appreciate all of the people that have replied so far, but I really expected more replies by now. I guess people are either jealous or have no clue."
Who exacting would be jealous? Of what?
There are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum. Bill Curlee to name one. Many others didn't respond to your thread probably because your first post shows you didn't do much research.
I will never understand why people ask for help/advice from people who have been there, done that and then ignore it.
Which road courses have you run? What car did you drive, the z or something else?
Have fun with your car! Good luck And be safe.
12-26-2014, 11:01 PM
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A forged rotating assembly will not give you more power unless you using a stroker crank. If you install a "Big cam" without a good set of valve springs, you can kiss your engine good bye.
This thread is less than 24 hours old. What were you thinking when you posted the following.
"I appreciate all of the people that have replied so far, but I really expected more replies by now. I guess people are either jealous or have no clue."
Who exacting would be jealous? Of what?
There are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum. Bill Curlee to name one. Many others didn't respond to your thread probably because your first post shows you didn't do much research.
I will never understand why people ask for help/advice from people who have been there, done that and then ignore it.
Which road courses have you run? What car did you drive, the z or something else?
Have fun with your car! Good luck And be safe.
This thread is less than 24 hours old. What were you thinking when you posted the following.
"I appreciate all of the people that have replied so far, but I really expected more replies by now. I guess people are either jealous or have no clue."
Who exacting would be jealous? Of what?
There are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum. Bill Curlee to name one. Many others didn't respond to your thread probably because your first post shows you didn't do much research.
I will never understand why people ask for help/advice from people who have been there, done that and then ignore it.
Which road courses have you run? What car did you drive, the z or something else?
Have fun with your car! Good luck And be safe.
I know that a forged rotating assembly wont increase power without a stroker crank, but it's still a good thing to buy. It's for peace of mind, and to hold the 700+HP that I'll be having. I want to do things right the first time and not pray that my bottom end will hold every time I drive it.
All I wanted was as many people as possible posting what engine upgrades they would buy with 5 grand and a bone stock Z06.
Last edited by BostonGeorge; 12-26-2014 at 11:15 PM.
12-26-2014, 11:36 PM
#16
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St. Jude Donor '14
I just read your response in post 15. This is my suggestion.
Get a set of long tube headers and a vararam. Then get a good Dyno tune. You'll get a nice power bump without spending a fortune. You will need your money for track time, tires, brake rotors and pads. Stay away from cross drilled rotors. Don't try to be the fastest guy the first day out. Find another vette owner who is fast and get advice and maybe a ride with them.
These ls engines are tough. You can always up the power later
Remember, a stock z06 is already a very competent road course machine.
Get a set of long tube headers and a vararam. Then get a good Dyno tune. You'll get a nice power bump without spending a fortune. You will need your money for track time, tires, brake rotors and pads. Stay away from cross drilled rotors. Don't try to be the fastest guy the first day out. Find another vette owner who is fast and get advice and maybe a ride with them.
These ls engines are tough. You can always up the power later
Remember, a stock z06 is already a very competent road course machine.
12-27-2014, 12:18 AM
#17
Talk to Tony Mamo, Pat G, or Martin at tick performance. And check out the link. Ron B. http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...k-results.html
12-27-2014, 09:49 AM
#19
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '10-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I did do a lot of research, but I just wanted some fresh opinions in case things have changed. I'm so sick of people on forums ignoring people that want/need help. Did anyone ever think that maybe if they're that ignorant, they need help the most? Some people are so bad with computers they can't even research things very well. In the time it takes for people to bash OPs, they could have just answered the dang question. Why even have forums with that mentality? Just leave up a database full of 5 year old threads to search through. It's not like some new parts have hit the market in the several years since most of the other threads have been started...
I know that a forged rotating assembly wont increase power without a stroker crank, but it's still a good thing to buy. It's for peace of mind, and to hold the 700+HP that I'll be having. I want to do things right the first time and not pray that my bottom end will hold every time I drive it.
All I wanted was as many people as possible posting what engine upgrades they would buy with 5 grand and a bone stock Z06.
I know that a forged rotating assembly wont increase power without a stroker crank, but it's still a good thing to buy. It's for peace of mind, and to hold the 700+HP that I'll be having. I want to do things right the first time and not pray that my bottom end will hold every time I drive it.
All I wanted was as many people as possible posting what engine upgrades they would buy with 5 grand and a bone stock Z06.
There are probably a 1000 threads alone on engine builds and the which combo will get you what. A quick search brought up these with little effort:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...he-wheels.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...heads-cam.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-my-combo.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...car-build.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...me-to-mod.html
My own combo included (I have left off all the other mods not pertaining to the engine as you requested):
XS-Power headers into Zo6 Ti mufflers
Ported RHS large valve (2.02/1.60) 205cc heads @11.5:1 comp
224R Cam @114 (.581 lift) with all new dual springs, retainers, etc. including trunion upgraded rockers
LS7 lifters and trays and new push rods
Ported LS6 intake manifold
Melling Hi-volume oil pump
LS2 timing chain
LS2 water pump
Powerbond dampner pulley (std)
36lb Fast injectors
Ported throttle body and MAF housing
CAI
All new ARP studs and bolts for everything
Oil Catch Can
And when this isn’t enough there is a 150HP nitrous plate, just in case
So now having taken the time to answer your question, I would add this. You have been on the forum for a month, have posted 1 thread, welcome. You are now whining that everyone did not drop what they were doing to pay attention to you. How rude we were not to realize who you were. I apologize but those pesky other things in life, job, family, holidays got in the way of immediately responding to your needs. I am sorry if my inattention has caused you stress and frustration. I will do better to not make you upset. Or you can listen carefully to those who just may have some experience to share with you and that may even benefit you. Good luck with your project and drive safe.
12-27-2014, 09:53 AM
#20
I don't think people are trying to ignore you or are jealous or anything like that, it's just that you stated 2 goals (more power & track days) for a stock z that typically contradict each other when starting out with a stock vehicle.
If I had a stock z and $5k then wanted 450+ whp, I would just save a little more and get a SC. You already plan to go that route anyway and getting more power is just a pulley and tune (up to a certain point anyway). This would give you a great mix of fun on both the street and the track and is basically where I'm at with my coupe.
If I had a stock z, $5k, and primarily planned to track it, then my approach would be entirely different as several have pointed out. If this was my situation I'd spend the $ on track days which would lead to me learning what components/upgrades would be best for me. If this is your primary goal, go post in the Autocross/Road Race section as those guys will give excellent advice on how to get started.
My c5 coupe has upgraded springs, sways, and 6psi boost. I've had it at the track a few times and it would take me many more track days and likely years before I would be able to handle that power comfortably. If I planned to track my car regularly I'd remove the turbo system and focus first on brakes, tires, and seat time. It's humbling when you rip by Miatas and such on the straights but see them on your bumper again before the next straight.
It will be fun for you whatever direction you choose!
If I had a stock z and $5k then wanted 450+ whp, I would just save a little more and get a SC. You already plan to go that route anyway and getting more power is just a pulley and tune (up to a certain point anyway). This would give you a great mix of fun on both the street and the track and is basically where I'm at with my coupe.
If I had a stock z, $5k, and primarily planned to track it, then my approach would be entirely different as several have pointed out. If this was my situation I'd spend the $ on track days which would lead to me learning what components/upgrades would be best for me. If this is your primary goal, go post in the Autocross/Road Race section as those guys will give excellent advice on how to get started.
My c5 coupe has upgraded springs, sways, and 6psi boost. I've had it at the track a few times and it would take me many more track days and likely years before I would be able to handle that power comfortably. If I planned to track my car regularly I'd remove the turbo system and focus first on brakes, tires, and seat time. It's humbling when you rip by Miatas and such on the straights but see them on your bumper again before the next straight.
It will be fun for you whatever direction you choose!