FASTFATBOY

So I was watching this weekend "Hot Rod" show on Spike or something of the like a few years ago. They were replacing the clutch in a C5.

They did not remove the rear cradle, torque tube or the tunnel plate.

The loosened the rear cradle and slid the whole deal back on screw stands just far enough to reach their hands up inside the gap to change the clutch.

Anyone see this? Anyone have the info on it? Video? I have Googled it to death with no luck.

Any info appreciated.

Also, if you have headers...do they come off to replace the clutch?

I may need a new slave, if I am in there.................

striper

At 106k miles my slave started leaking, so I changed the clutch at the same time. I have no idea how there is enough room to get everything out without removing the torque tube and everything else. Plus if you have headers at some point you're going to wish you removed them. I just moved them out of the way and it was a real pain you know where.

vettenuts

That certainly would be an interesting video to see if you find it. As for the headers, I took mine off but left them in the car. They were a pain to work around indeed.

Socko

Honestly, after doing it on the ground myself, outside of the cost of stands that will hold the car high enough, and tools to take the trans/diff out, it isn't really a big deal to pull the whole rear end. Sliding it back would be a real hastle imo. There is a large wire loom that is ridigly attached to the diff or trans and the front of the bell housing and then clipped to the torque tube and ridgid. If you knew exactly what you were getting into you could deal with it.

At the end of the day you are talking about saving maybe 2-3 man hours. Though lowering the cradle/diff/trans does require 1-2 guys to help, it is honestly a very easy part of the job. Dealing with the slave and bell housing and getting all the bolts out and back in was the thing i burnt the most time on. And dealing with the clutch inside the bell housing is going to suck. I also left my kooks 1 7/8 in the engine bay just removed from the motor and had JUST enough room to get everything done. The bell housing is tight to the car and requires a lot of putzing to get in and out with the headers in the engine bay.

3boystoys

I saw this method on some show, you basically do everything you normally would do to remove the cradle, you just don't remove it away from the car, just drop it down and back enough to do the clutch. Don't see much of any advantage since I think I'd want to inspect the rubber couplers while I had it out.

FASTFATBOY

I have my own shop at home with a rack in it. The car only has 48,000 miles but when you run the car hard the clutch pedal gets mushy and the pedal is slow to return. The previous owner didn't maintain the clutch fluid.

I am in the process of doing the "Ranger Flush", hard to tell if it's helping or not.

I saw this show and it looks like it avoids a lot of disassembly, the less you take apart the less brain damage you have.

I have a transmission jack and 2 screw stands, this should keep the rear cradle happy along with a ratchet strap or 2.

Socko

That is a good point, and even more importantly the slave needs to be replaced. I guess maybe you could get the space once the clutch is out to pull the slave off? My slave was garbage, like physically damaged to a point i don't really understand how it worked, and my tt front bearing needed replacement.

I guess if there is room to pull the clutch you could leave the trans/diff in the car pushed back on the rear subframe and pull the tt off of it possibly? It sounds like a lot of messing around to save 200-300 on tall jack stands and a trans jack. Cause i cannot imagine there is much time savings left at that point.

3boystoys

Good video here:
http://twoguysgarage.com/

onspeed

There is no way you're changing the clutch without getting the torque tube out of the way. If you're only changing the clutch and not inspecting any TT bearings or etc, then keep the diff/trans/TT/cradle as one piece (motorcycle jack is great) and just lower/slide it back out of the way. Reassembly just push it back together.

Evil-Twin

There is only " One " right way to do a clutch on a C5, and that is to replace the clutch pressure plate and flywheel as a zero balanced unit, and then add the weight slugs from the original externally balance original fly wheel, at this time you want to replace the master and slave as well... Putting a clutch disc in a C5 without replacing the pressure plate and flywheel is just a half assed way to do it..

FASTFATBOY

No one said anything of the sort

Why would you replace the master if you have no issues with it??

Evil-Twin

Because the master gets filled with clutch dust over time, and its the right thing to do, when doing a job of this magnitude. same as the slave... Like I said, there is only one right way to do a clutch job on a C5... the other reason.. you do a half assed job, after 10 years and 60,000/80,000 miles
the extra hundred dollars for the master will save the contamination it would do to a new slave.. and if your next argument is why change the slave.,.. then the answer is spend 800 dollars in labor to do the clutch, and then 6 months from now you have to spend another 800 dollars to put in a new slave.
You are certainly entitle to your questions, but your logic is not in your best interest.. you want to do the job right by changing to new hydraulics when you replace the clutch pressure plate and flywheel.. then its a complete repair not a bandade.
Of course you can just reach up there and put in a clutch disc.. its your car.. but you will learn a valuable lesson.

FASTFATBOY

No one said anywhere about replacing JUST a disc, I will put in a clutch assembly.

I have a good idea what I'm doing, I turned wrenches for 12 years for a living.

Thanks for the insight though.

Evil-Twin

12 years ! Ive been a GM design engineer for 30 years. The C5 was my last project from 1995 through launch in 97 then retiring in 2000.
Tell me how many externally balanced engines you have installed a clutch ? do you know the difference between an internally balanced and externally balanced engine? Oh and BTW I have been turning wrenches for 55 years... of my 70 years of life... I just offered you my very educated advice on the right way to replace and clutch on a C5 and all of its components.. its externally balance needing a match set of clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel.... the clocking of the flywheel is required to mimic the factory external balance. but of course with 12 years under your belt and expert knowledge of a C5 drive train.. IM not telling you anything you don't already know. I just tried to help you.. DO whatever your experience has taught you. IM not being condescending.. just trying to offer some advice. Good luck.
Bill aka ET

FASTFATBOY

If you read my first post, I asked about a video.

Thanks.

Evil-Twin

I assumed you were going to try to do this job... you offered no link so I could not see the Vid.. I know you were asking if anyone saw the vid or had a link.. I am telling you that you can not remove the slave, clutch disk, pressure plate and fly wheel without dropping the cradle . dropping the cradle means disconnecting it and moving it back to where you can get between it and the bell housing, its almost impossible to get the flywheel in without moving or loosening the bell housing.. AS I said, I am just trying to help you.. asking for a short cut, tells me a lot about your experience.. thousands of these assemblies have been done by tuners and professional mechanics who support this forum.. no one tries to short cut this install. OK I'm done with your thread, I'm always available in PM if you need help and I said before.. good luck with whatever you do.
Bill aka ET

martysauto

Your posts are a little harsh! The man never said he was just doing the disc. Why did you assume he knows nothing about the balancing of the engine. It's been discussed in many threads on this forum. Now I know why your forum name starts with "evil".

vettenuts

If you go for it, here is what I did to aid with re-alignment of the torque tube assembly and the clutch. The key is not to let the motor move once it is apart. Hopefully you find it helpful.
Torque Tube Alignment

striper

How did they change the pilot bearing without removing everything? When I did my clutch I replaced everything, slave, master, T O bearing, etc. Actually I needed a slave not a clutch, but I wasn't doing this job twice, so every part is new. And as far as needing helpers to r&r the assembly, you can do it yourself.

k24556

We just finished a C6Z06 slave cylinder replacement in my garage, and the configuration is very close to a C5. I've pulled several drivetrains from C5's and you can leave the rear cradle connected to the transaxle, but you have to lower it to move it rearward for the input shaft to clear the clutch assembly, whether you are changing a clutch or just a slave. There are way too many interferences, like the bolts and alignment pins that hold the cradle to the frame to be able to move the assembly rearward far enough to clear. I guess you could cut the C5 trunk tub out, but that is extra fiberglass work to fix it when you can just lower enough to get it all rearward.

As a quick tip, if you get some BQ164 female plugs, you can cap off the brake lines. It makes it easier on a C6 to leave the RR brake line on the cradle. On a C5 the brake lines spread to clear when you lower the transaxle so it is not a big deal. Once you do a C6Z, you will think a C5 is a LEGO set. just google BQ 164 and you will find a supplier they are about $3.50 ea shipped.

Regarding internally vs externally balanced, I will have to plead ignorance. I replaced both the clutch and harmonic balancer and after two years of hard track time and some street driving, no vibration noticed and no consequences. The Y2k LS1 (modded to 395 RWHP) still runs like a strip-ed haint.