Question on the infamous Service Column Lock message
02-28-2015, 11:30 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Question on the infamous Service Column Lock message
I've read this:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ky-please.html
And I've read several posts on the topic here, but I'm still not completely clear on this whole thing. Hence, this post.
At this time, I will go on the assumption that my car had the factory recall done, since I've not yet dug into the dash to look at the wiring, and my documentation on the car is very safely put away somewhere that I can not find it right now.
The steering wheel moves freely at all times, for what that's worth.
I turn the key on, I get the classic "Service Steering Column Lock" message on the display. I reset the display, and the car will still stall as soon as I roll any faster than a crawl.
I was also getting the "remove key and wait ten seconds" message at times.
Anyway, I'm thinking maybe just pulling fuse 23 to reset this may correct the issue. Any opinions?
Thanks,
Scott
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ky-please.html
And I've read several posts on the topic here, but I'm still not completely clear on this whole thing. Hence, this post.
At this time, I will go on the assumption that my car had the factory recall done, since I've not yet dug into the dash to look at the wiring, and my documentation on the car is very safely put away somewhere that I can not find it right now.
The steering wheel moves freely at all times, for what that's worth.
I turn the key on, I get the classic "Service Steering Column Lock" message on the display. I reset the display, and the car will still stall as soon as I roll any faster than a crawl.
I was also getting the "remove key and wait ten seconds" message at times.
Anyway, I'm thinking maybe just pulling fuse 23 to reset this may correct the issue. Any opinions?
Thanks,
Scott
02-28-2015, 12:06 PM
#2
Instructor
Thread Starter
Pulling fuse #23 or any other fuse for that matter is NOT going to fix the column lock symptoms.
According to your profile you have a 99 FRC which means manual trans.
If you are still getting column lock symptoms and your column is never locked then you must NOT have an LMC5 installed.
Save your time and mine writing a long response of what might be wrong by ordering and installing an LMC5. It abandons ALL the factory and recall wiring which is what is causing your symptoms. It connects right at the BCM in the passenger footwell and is the only permanent column lock repair that you will ever need to do.
Google "complianceparts" and read about and then order an LMC5...
About $40 plus shipping........
According to your profile you have a 99 FRC which means manual trans.
If you are still getting column lock symptoms and your column is never locked then you must NOT have an LMC5 installed.
Save your time and mine writing a long response of what might be wrong by ordering and installing an LMC5. It abandons ALL the factory and recall wiring which is what is causing your symptoms. It connects right at the BCM in the passenger footwell and is the only permanent column lock repair that you will ever need to do.
Google "complianceparts" and read about and then order an LMC5...
About $40 plus shipping........Thanks, and I'll order that right away. Is there any workaround between now and when the part arrives? I'd like to be able to drive the car, if at al possible. You can't get much done when you can't go more than 2 MPH.
S.C.
02-28-2015, 01:08 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
Without knowing exactly what has been done to the car by previous owners there is no easy solution. The car is 16 years old and has likely had one or more than one variation of the GM column lock recall service done to it plus god knows what by owners that tried to fix the issue them selves. 99's are the most complex because the recall service made significant wiring changes if it was done correctly.
If you have access to a tuner that has either HP Tuners or EFI Live tuning software you could have the 2mph fuel shutoff set to a high number to get around the fuel shutoff. However if the lock motor has not actually been disconnected or the smaller diameter lock plate installed you could have the system suddenly start working again and that could happen while the car is in motion.
I personally wouldn't take a chance........
The manufacturer for the LMC5 is in southern Calif and your profile indicates you are in Phoenix, Az. It shouldn't take more than a couple days to get the LMC5 if you order it this weekend. Installation is easy and shouldn't take more than an hour if you are mehanically inclined.
PS I strongly suggest that you have the battery checked and inspect the connections to the battery (including the one at the starter). The most likely cause of the start of your symptoms is a weak or bad battery or loose or corroded battery connections...........
If you have access to a tuner that has either HP Tuners or EFI Live tuning software you could have the 2mph fuel shutoff set to a high number to get around the fuel shutoff. However if the lock motor has not actually been disconnected or the smaller diameter lock plate installed you could have the system suddenly start working again and that could happen while the car is in motion.
I personally wouldn't take a chance........The manufacturer for the LMC5 is in southern Calif and your profile indicates you are in Phoenix, Az. It shouldn't take more than a couple days to get the LMC5 if you order it this weekend. Installation is easy and shouldn't take more than an hour if you are mehanically inclined.
PS I strongly suggest that you have the battery checked and inspect the connections to the battery (including the one at the starter). The most likely cause of the start of your symptoms is a weak or bad battery or loose or corroded battery connections...........
As far as the battery goes, it starts extremely well, but the battery only measures 12.1VDC. I'd expect a bit more from a battery just sitting in a non-running car, but that seems adequate to keep the car operating properly. Correct? When running, the car is always at 13.5 VDC, or thereabouts.
S.C.
02-28-2015, 04:48 PM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
Measure the voltage across the battery posts with the neg battery cable disconnected to get the No Load voltage.
With the battery in the car there can be a number of things loading the battery. In the C5 when the No Load battery is below 12.5 volts the electronics in the car, especially the column lock electronics, is NOT happy. A good battery at full charge should measure between 12.6 and 12.9 volts or more. If it measures less than 12.5 volts then you have most likely fried the Column Lock Relay or the GM K Harness if one was installed. Here is what happens to those relays when battery voltage goes low:
Car will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics fail or do crazy things with less than 12.5 volts.
Column lock electronics run before the engine starts so having alternator voltage after the engine starts is TOO LATE!!!!
Dash gauges do NOT tell you the state of health of the battery. They tell you the state of health of the charging system. With engine running the gauges show approximately the output voltage of the alternator. With key on and engine off they show approximately the LOADED battery voltage which in pretty meaningless because many different things can be loading the battery with the key on and engine off..... Approximately because the gauges are AFTER the ignition switch and contact points in the ignition switch typically have carbon build up and or pitting resulting in voltage drop across the ignition switch.. Subject for another post!!!!!!
Since the LMC5 abandons all factory and recall wiring downstream of the BCM, even if the relay is failed, no need to worry about it. Just leave it and forget it.
With the battery in the car there can be a number of things loading the battery. In the C5 when the No Load battery is below 12.5 volts the electronics in the car, especially the column lock electronics, is NOT happy. A good battery at full charge should measure between 12.6 and 12.9 volts or more. If it measures less than 12.5 volts then you have most likely fried the Column Lock Relay or the GM K Harness if one was installed. Here is what happens to those relays when battery voltage goes low:
Car will start with 12.2 volts or less but the electronics fail or do crazy things with less than 12.5 volts.
Column lock electronics run before the engine starts so having alternator voltage after the engine starts is TOO LATE!!!!
Dash gauges do NOT tell you the state of health of the battery. They tell you the state of health of the charging system. With engine running the gauges show approximately the output voltage of the alternator. With key on and engine off they show approximately the LOADED battery voltage which in pretty meaningless because many different things can be loading the battery with the key on and engine off..... Approximately because the gauges are AFTER the ignition switch and contact points in the ignition switch typically have carbon build up and or pitting resulting in voltage drop across the ignition switch.. Subject for another post!!!!!!
Since the LMC5 abandons all factory and recall wiring downstream of the BCM, even if the relay is failed, no need to worry about it. Just leave it and forget it.
Tell me where to send the check for all of this excellent information.
S.C.
03-01-2015, 01:40 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,491
Received 312 Likes
on
227 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22
If you have any questions about the LMC5, don't hesitate to call Richard at Compliance. He is one of the most helpful vendors on here.
If you're going to do the installation yourself, there is a YouTube video which is very helpful. Just make sure you follow the instructions as there is a relay that you disconnect at the end of the installation that is not featured in the video.
03-01-2015, 11:35 AM
#6
Racer
I did a CLB a few years ago after I had all the recalls done as I didn't trust the recalls. Am I looking at problems in the future. If I go to a LMC5 do I need to get rid of the CLB. I Have had no problems with the CLB so far. The car is a 03Z.
03-01-2015, 01:37 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
I love this forum. 
BTW, I brought the battery back from whence it came yesterday (O'Riley's). The prior owner of my car installed it a while before I bought the car. They charged it and it still only managed to muster up 12.55 VDC. I brought it home, let it sit overnight and then measured it again this morning and it was down to 12.36. So back again I went, this time armed with my VOM and I showed the guy behind the counter, who immediately handed over a brand new battery, no questions. The new one is already at 12.6 VDC, but I'm going to toss it on my trickle charger for a couple hours before tossing it in.
When the time comes and I have to actually purchase a new battery, I'll spring for something which is rated for the recommended RC. For now, a free battery is OK, but I'll be keeping an eye on it over time.
S.C.
BTW, I brought the battery back from whence it came yesterday (O'Riley's). The prior owner of my car installed it a while before I bought the car. They charged it and it still only managed to muster up 12.55 VDC. I brought it home, let it sit overnight and then measured it again this morning and it was down to 12.36. So back again I went, this time armed with my VOM and I showed the guy behind the counter, who immediately handed over a brand new battery, no questions. The new one is already at 12.6 VDC, but I'm going to toss it on my trickle charger for a couple hours before tossing it in.
When the time comes and I have to actually purchase a new battery, I'll spring for something which is rated for the recommended RC. For now, a free battery is OK, but I'll be keeping an eye on it over time.
S.C.
03-01-2015, 03:54 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
There we go!
BTW, check out the receipt sitting there. $140 is what a replacement would have cost me. Battery prices have gone through the roof in the last few years.
S.C.
BTW, check out the receipt sitting there. $140 is what a replacement would have cost me. Battery prices have gone through the roof in the last few years.
S.C.
03-04-2015, 08:57 PM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
Done, and many thanks to this august crew for the support, especially 8VETTE7.
My only gripe with the install was the fact that a 6'5" guy like me doesn't fit up under the dash very well, but there's nothing that can be done about that.
S.C.
My only gripe with the install was the fact that a 6'5" guy like me doesn't fit up under the dash very well, but there's nothing that can be done about that.
S.C.
03-07-2015, 01:05 PM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
Damn. Had a column lock error today. I did the key pull/reinsert and it was fine after that.
Also, today my AC decided to not work. The compressor sounds like it is engaging when I turn the AC on, so I have to check the freon.
S.C.
Also, today my AC decided to not work. The compressor sounds like it is engaging when I turn the AC on, so I have to check the freon.
S.C.
03-07-2015, 03:27 PM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
Also, I checked to see what error codes the car has tossed. Here's the list:
P0461 Fuel Level Sensor 1 Circuit Performance
C1255 EBTCM Internal Malfunction
B2587 Column Lock/Unlock Drive (A) B2592 Column Lock/Unlock Drive (B)
U1016 Loss of Communications with PCM
U1064 Loss of Communications with BCM
U1096 Loss of Communications with IPC
The loss of communication errors make sense, since I disconnected the battery and module to do the LMC5 fix (at least I'd think those make sense), as does the column lock error. The fuel level sensor seems like a red herring in this scenario. The C1255 error does not seem to be manifesting itself in any way, so I don't know what to say about that one.
S.C.
03-07-2015, 11:19 PM
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
Very common problem with the C5 is the fuel gauge. There are sensors in each tank that are used to determine the fuel level so that it can be reported/shown on the fuel gauge. Complex process since the passenger side tank is emptied first and then the drivers side. These sensors commonly build up deposits from the fuel that cause the gauge to do crazy things like dropping to empty when there is still plenty of fuel left in the tank(s).
In many cases the deposits can be dissolved off the sensors with cleaning additives (above and beyond what the gas companies put in their gas). I suggest that you might want to add a large can of Techron Plus ( 20 Oz.) to a less than half full tank and then fill the tanks with fuel. Often takes more than one treatment to get all the deposits dissolved. In the worst cases it can be necessary to replace the sensors. Worth a few bucks to see if the Techron works for you. I treat my tanks about once a year when I change oil and filter as a preventative. Many parts places have regular buy one get one specials on Techron Plus.
The C1255 code can be the kiss of death for the EBCM if it keeps returning. The code can also be caused by issues within the ignition switch that prevent full battery voltage from getting to the EBCM when you start and operate the car. The switch itself (not the key cylinder) is prone to pitting and carbon build up over time.
Here are a few links that you may want to read through relative to the C5 Ignition Switch. (Again another common weak spot in the C5.)
diagnosis
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1568186703-post64.html
removal
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1571067145-post107.html
repair procedure
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ch-repair.html
I'm certain you have the column lock issue under control if you did the brown wire mod......
In many cases the deposits can be dissolved off the sensors with cleaning additives (above and beyond what the gas companies put in their gas). I suggest that you might want to add a large can of Techron Plus ( 20 Oz.) to a less than half full tank and then fill the tanks with fuel. Often takes more than one treatment to get all the deposits dissolved. In the worst cases it can be necessary to replace the sensors. Worth a few bucks to see if the Techron works for you. I treat my tanks about once a year when I change oil and filter as a preventative. Many parts places have regular buy one get one specials on Techron Plus.
The C1255 code can be the kiss of death for the EBCM if it keeps returning. The code can also be caused by issues within the ignition switch that prevent full battery voltage from getting to the EBCM when you start and operate the car. The switch itself (not the key cylinder) is prone to pitting and carbon build up over time.
Here are a few links that you may want to read through relative to the C5 Ignition Switch. (Again another common weak spot in the C5.)
diagnosis
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1568186703-post64.html
removal
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1571067145-post107.html
repair procedure
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ch-repair.html
I'm certain you have the column lock issue under control if you did the brown wire mod......
And yes, I did the brown wire supplemental mod, and I also spoke for a good long time today with Rich at Compliance Parts. Great guy.
S.C.