Anyone regret mild heads/cam for daily driver?
07-23-2015, 11:33 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Dec 2002
Location: Baltimore suburbs Maryland
Posts: 10,233
Received 17 Likes
on
17 Posts
Anyone regret mild heads/cam for daily driver?
Little background, I got my car back on the road after my PCM meltdown - I've daily driven it the past 12 years or so and it's up to 205k miles. Engine wise I only have a Honker and Z06 Ti exhaust + aftermarket X pipe (only cause the OE one broke). I'm not interested in blow the doors down performance, and haven't been to the drag strip in over 10 years, though I do enjoy some spirited driving and can appreciate a powerful car. 
I have to do a lot of maintenance including replacing the harmonic balancer and the AC compressor, and from what I've researched the older LS1 oil pumps may fail. Soooo while I'm in there, I thought about putting in a mild cam and heads.
Thus, I'm on the fence- if I should just leave it stock, or take the plunge and do some internal engine mods.
I talked to a tuner vendor here already and he recommended if I'm doing the cam +LS2 heads, should also do the lifters (and of course the valve springs, etc).
Other considerations, I'd do the work myself then have it tuned. I've never been inside an engine before, but I have gotten quite good at rebuilding manual transmissions including the T56
I also have a friend who is skilled in LS engines to help if I run into a jam, so this would be a learning experience instead of just to go faster. Figure materials + tuning alone will be $2000-2500ish. Also considering how the early LS1s are the slowest of the LS series and there's lots of potential to wake up the engine.
Butttt... I've been down the modifications for other cars road before and usually when it plays out, I regret buying all these go fast mods, they either compromise drivability/comfort, MPG, reliability, or causes me to upgrade something else.
Thus, anyone have input on your experienced with a mild head/cam package? I don't mean specifically what make/models as there's plenty of threads, but in the bigger picture in general.
I have to do a lot of maintenance including replacing the harmonic balancer and the AC compressor, and from what I've researched the older LS1 oil pumps may fail. Soooo while I'm in there, I thought about putting in a mild cam and heads.
Thus, I'm on the fence- if I should just leave it stock, or take the plunge and do some internal engine mods.
I talked to a tuner vendor here already and he recommended if I'm doing the cam +LS2 heads, should also do the lifters (and of course the valve springs, etc).
Other considerations, I'd do the work myself then have it tuned. I've never been inside an engine before, but I have gotten quite good at rebuilding manual transmissions including the T56
I also have a friend who is skilled in LS engines to help if I run into a jam, so this would be a learning experience instead of just to go faster. Figure materials + tuning alone will be $2000-2500ish. Also considering how the early LS1s are the slowest of the LS series and there's lots of potential to wake up the engine.Butttt... I've been down the modifications for other cars road before and usually when it plays out, I regret buying all these go fast mods, they either compromise drivability/comfort, MPG, reliability, or causes me to upgrade something else.
Thus, anyone have input on your experienced with a mild head/cam package? I don't mean specifically what make/models as there's plenty of threads, but in the bigger picture in general.
07-24-2015, 12:55 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
Little background, I got my car back on the road after my PCM meltdown - I've daily driven it the past 12 years or so and it's up to 205k miles. Engine wise I only have a Honker and Z06 Ti exhaust + aftermarket X pipe (only cause the OE one broke). I'm not interested in blow the doors down performance, and haven't been to the drag strip in over 10 years, though I do enjoy some spirited driving and can appreciate a powerful car.
I have to do a lot of maintenance including replacing the harmonic balancer and the AC compressor, and from what I've researched the older LS1 oil pumps may fail. Soooo while I'm in there, I thought about putting in a mild cam and heads.
Thus, I'm on the fence- if I should just leave it stock, or take the plunge and do some internal engine mods.
I talked to a tuner vendor here already and he recommended if I'm doing the cam +LS2 heads, should also do the lifters (and of course the valve springs, etc).
Other considerations, I'd do the work myself then have it tuned. I've never been inside an engine before, but I have gotten quite good at rebuilding manual transmissions including the T56 I also have a friend who is skilled in LS engines to help if I run into a jam, so this would be a learning experience instead of just to go faster. Figure materials + tuning alone will be $2000-2500ish. Also considering how the early LS1s are the slowest of the LS series and there's lots of potential to wake up the engine.
Butttt... I've been down the modifications for other cars road before and usually when it plays out, I regret buying all these go fast mods, they either compromise drivability/comfort, MPG, reliability, or causes me to upgrade something else.
Thus, anyone have input on your experienced with a mild head/cam package? I don't mean specifically what make/models as there's plenty of threads, but in the bigger picture in general.
I have to do a lot of maintenance including replacing the harmonic balancer and the AC compressor, and from what I've researched the older LS1 oil pumps may fail. Soooo while I'm in there, I thought about putting in a mild cam and heads.
Thus, I'm on the fence- if I should just leave it stock, or take the plunge and do some internal engine mods.
I talked to a tuner vendor here already and he recommended if I'm doing the cam +LS2 heads, should also do the lifters (and of course the valve springs, etc).
Other considerations, I'd do the work myself then have it tuned. I've never been inside an engine before, but I have gotten quite good at rebuilding manual transmissions including the T56
I also have a friend who is skilled in LS engines to help if I run into a jam, so this would be a learning experience instead of just to go faster. Figure materials + tuning alone will be $2000-2500ish. Also considering how the early LS1s are the slowest of the LS series and there's lots of potential to wake up the engine.Butttt... I've been down the modifications for other cars road before and usually when it plays out, I regret buying all these go fast mods, they either compromise drivability/comfort, MPG, reliability, or causes me to upgrade something else.
Thus, anyone have input on your experienced with a mild head/cam package? I don't mean specifically what make/models as there's plenty of threads, but in the bigger picture in general.
The following users liked this post:
ericdwong (10-25-2015)
07-24-2015, 01:44 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
I drive my Z daily, is that the kind of level you're talking about? If so maybe some used 243 heads and a Z cam or similar.
07-24-2015, 08:20 AM
#5
Team Owner
I would recommend keeping the cam small and stay with a milder lobe to minimize valve train issues/maintenance. Stay with GM heads to keep the PM valve guides and prevent the need for aftermarket rockers. I would have AI do my heads if I were going with GM heads.
I also wanted something relatively maintenance free. I have an XER cam so I know that future valve spring refreshing is required, but I used all good parts when I did mine. Morel lifters, double taper pushrods to prevent valve bounce and pushrod flex, killer timing setup, ported oil pump (Mamo), etc. I was careful with each part to ensure there were minimal compromises for longevity of the motor.
The one thing I would change were I to do it over would be a milder lobe cam.
I also wanted something relatively maintenance free. I have an XER cam so I know that future valve spring refreshing is required, but I used all good parts when I did mine. Morel lifters, double taper pushrods to prevent valve bounce and pushrod flex, killer timing setup, ported oil pump (Mamo), etc. I was careful with each part to ensure there were minimal compromises for longevity of the motor.
The one thing I would change were I to do it over would be a milder lobe cam.
The following users liked this post:
ericdwong (10-25-2015)
07-25-2015, 09:06 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
I'd say just don't bonkers on the cam, and you'll be ok. get something low or mid 220's.
seriously, things also get much louder if you go with headers.
seriously, things also get much louder if you go with headers.
Last edited by dagon138; 07-25-2015 at 09:08 PM.
The following users liked this post:
ericdwong (10-25-2015)
07-26-2015, 08:44 AM
#7
Team Owner
My $0.02 worth....
If BIG POWER isn't your goal, I'd stick with the mild "bolt-ons", especially with that many miles on the car. It appears that you already have a higher flowing air intake, so maybe a ported throttle body. If you can get more air in the engine, it needs to be able to be exhausted. Headers would be a good "bang for the buck" deal, and if you do go with heads/cam mods, you'll need the headers anyway.
To my experience, the more radical you get, the less reliable you get....
If BIG POWER isn't your goal, I'd stick with the mild "bolt-ons", especially with that many miles on the car. It appears that you already have a higher flowing air intake, so maybe a ported throttle body. If you can get more air in the engine, it needs to be able to be exhausted. Headers would be a good "bang for the buck" deal, and if you do go with heads/cam mods, you'll need the headers anyway.
To my experience, the more radical you get, the less reliable you get....
The following users liked this post:
ericdwong (12-03-2015)
07-26-2015, 09:41 PM
#8
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
When you mod a car with higher miles,, you have to take into account the condition of the following things:
- Clutch and clutch system components
- Torque Tube bearings and rubber couplers
- Engine Mounts/trans rubber mounts
- Valve rocker trunnion bearings
- Cam Bearings (older high mile engines usually have worn cam bearings.
When you do a cam change, its always a good (recommended) practice to change the lifter and lifter buckets
To change those you have to remove the heads. IMHO,, From what Ive learned (the hard way); I always install ARP Head Studs instead of using ONE TIME USE torque to yield OEM head bolts. Ive seen too many people strip out head bolt holes in the block. Makes a VERY BAD DAY when that happens.
You also have to figure in the condition of the differential. What shape are the limited slip clutches in,, Are your clutch pack springs (beleaview springs) broken. When you make more power, your going to want to play. If your tires, suspension is not in good shape, you will get wheel hop under that new found power and possibly snap a differential output shaft.
when I went to 450 RWHP from a first mod of 390 RWHP, my clutch started sticking to the floor under full power runs. It was most likely a clutch master cylinder issue. I ended up installing all new clutch components.
Bill
- Clutch and clutch system components
- Torque Tube bearings and rubber couplers
- Engine Mounts/trans rubber mounts
- Valve rocker trunnion bearings
- Cam Bearings (older high mile engines usually have worn cam bearings.
When you do a cam change, its always a good (recommended) practice to change the lifter and lifter buckets
To change those you have to remove the heads. IMHO,, From what Ive learned (the hard way); I always install ARP Head Studs instead of using ONE TIME USE torque to yield OEM head bolts. Ive seen too many people strip out head bolt holes in the block. Makes a VERY BAD DAY when that happens.
You also have to figure in the condition of the differential. What shape are the limited slip clutches in,, Are your clutch pack springs (beleaview springs) broken. When you make more power, your going to want to play. If your tires, suspension is not in good shape, you will get wheel hop under that new found power and possibly snap a differential output shaft.
when I went to 450 RWHP from a first mod of 390 RWHP, my clutch started sticking to the floor under full power runs. It was most likely a clutch master cylinder issue. I ended up installing all new clutch components.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Curlee; 07-26-2015 at 09:44 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Bill Curlee:
ericdwong (10-25-2015),
LeoLivinLife (06-07-2020)
07-27-2015, 12:14 AM
#9
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Dec 2002
Location: Baltimore suburbs Maryland
Posts: 10,233
Received 17 Likes
on
17 Posts
Great input everyone. I was away this weekend so this is certainly lots to think about.
Power wise I'd be happy with C5 Z06 or a little more than C5 Z06 performance.
The suspension is in decent shape, replaced all ball joints about 50k miles ago with Moog and Spicers. I have mild bolt on suspension mods too, Z06 springs, Hotchkis bars and Koni FSD shocks. I'm about to get rid of the Baer tracker tie rods, they are loose and noisy so part of my project is to replace those since the steering rack will be out anyway. Differential seems to be in good shape too, just changed its fluid and of the Trans and plan on getting a Blackstone analysis on each.
Car is on its third clutch, with LUK Pro Gold and Fidzanza flywheel. I've been in the transmission before to replace some synchros though that was several years ago and added the DTE brace. My last car (a Nissan) I kept blowing the trans and learned how to work on a manual transmission. Back then I had more time and energy on my hands, these days I'm not looking forwards to doing another transmission job on the C5...
Right now I'm leaning towards chickening out and just leaving it stock, just seems like too much more that can go wrong at the high mileage and even more $ to sink in. Not interested in headers, I don't like loud cars and think the Z06 Ti and aftermarket X pipe and stock manifolds actually sounds decent without giving me a headache.
I bet part of the reason my car has been fairly reliable is because it gets the most miles from mildly driving to and from work. Thinking about my driving habits these days I rarely wind out the motor as it is (10 years ago that was a different story
) Thanks for the input, still deciding (especially if I wind up changing the oil pump and timing chain as part of my harmonic balancer/AC compressor replacement project)
Power wise I'd be happy with C5 Z06 or a little more than C5 Z06 performance.
The suspension is in decent shape, replaced all ball joints about 50k miles ago with Moog and Spicers. I have mild bolt on suspension mods too, Z06 springs, Hotchkis bars and Koni FSD shocks. I'm about to get rid of the Baer tracker tie rods, they are loose and noisy so part of my project is to replace those since the steering rack will be out anyway. Differential seems to be in good shape too, just changed its fluid and of the Trans and plan on getting a Blackstone analysis on each.
Car is on its third clutch, with LUK Pro Gold and Fidzanza flywheel. I've been in the transmission before to replace some synchros though that was several years ago and added the DTE brace. My last car (a Nissan) I kept blowing the trans and learned how to work on a manual transmission. Back then I had more time and energy on my hands, these days I'm not looking forwards to doing another transmission job on the C5...
Right now I'm leaning towards chickening out and just leaving it stock, just seems like too much more that can go wrong at the high mileage and even more $ to sink in. Not interested in headers, I don't like loud cars and think the Z06 Ti and aftermarket X pipe and stock manifolds actually sounds decent without giving me a headache.
I bet part of the reason my car has been fairly reliable is because it gets the most miles from mildly driving to and from work. Thinking about my driving habits these days I rarely wind out the motor as it is (10 years ago that was a different story
) Thanks for the input, still deciding (especially if I wind up changing the oil pump and timing chain as part of my harmonic balancer/AC compressor replacement project)
07-28-2015, 12:27 AM
#10
Advanced
Member Since: Nov 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mild build that is still a good daily driver I'd say LS6 cam, Port and polish throttle body, and some shorty headers with 243 or 799 heads. Still a daily with better power.
07-28-2015, 12:30 PM
#11
Safety Car
Do a mild setup. 243 heads, ls6 intake, small cam.
Should net you 380-390rwhp without longtubes.
With longtubes maybe 400!
Catted longtubes through z06 Ti wouldnt be that loud..
Should net you 380-390rwhp without longtubes.
With longtubes maybe 400!
Catted longtubes through z06 Ti wouldnt be that loud..
The following users liked this post:
ericdwong (10-25-2015)
07-28-2015, 01:21 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: Bossier City Louisiana
Posts: 2,257
Received 431 Likes
on
356 Posts
I went with a medium sized cam, 227/230, LS6 intake, 243 heads and longtubes. It's an A4 so I also added a 3000 stall converter. After a really good street tune, I have stock Z power in my coupe! Drives great.
The following 2 users liked this post by myredhead1:
ericdwong (10-25-2015),
LeoLivinLife (06-07-2020)
02-08-2018, 03:47 PM
#13
1st Gear
Member Since: Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C5 /LS7 blues
I have a 99 FRC with a LS7. Can someone please explain to me why I can't get more than 500rwhp. I have all the upgrades, heads have been done, exhaust, Fast Intake, trunion upgrade, and BTR cam. Car rides great, no surging or bucking. I've been told by the tuner it's the ECU. Meaning that it's slow and can't keep up. Am I wrong to think that my car should have just as much power as the C6 Z06 with the same upgrades? PLEASE HELP 
The following users liked this post:
LeoLivinLife (06-07-2020)
02-08-2018, 08:19 PM
#15
Intermediate
Member Since: Mar 2005
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heads/cam/LT/etc or Blower?
Option 1 - Heads/cam/long tubes/intake and all the associated stuff figure 450+ rwhp and I would imagine ~125 trap speeds.
Option 2 - A&A supercharger kit - Some searching indicates 475+ rwhp but what scares me is that with some searching (admit minimal) I see guys saying 115 and 118 trap speeds and others high 120s even 130. The car went 109 stock. Can I really bolt the kit on, get tuned and run 125+ or will it be a dyno number car? Frankly I could care less what the dyno says, I would much rather see trap speeds because that’s what it does on the road.
The car is a ‘99 M6 C5 I am getting from my dad. The whole heads/cam route I am familiar with and pretty much know it’ll deliver. When I add up all costs a supercharger kit is equal if not less. Can I really bolt the kit on, have stock like manners, except when on the gas hard and still run 125+ trap speeds? I may be tainted (been sort of car “retired” for 15 years) but my LT1 and early LS1 days it always seemed like forced induction sounded good but never really delivered. Have things changed? I’m intrigued to try it but I want to either do the blower kit and basically that’s it or else do the entire heads cam road. Not a blower but then need headers and then a cam and meth injection and on and on. I’d rather a 125+ trap speed and drive it and have fun and be done.
I’ll also be doing (everything is myself) clutch, rebuild torque tube, rebuild tranny, new bushings, fuel pump (with blower or do anyways if NA). If blower I would put new valve springs but ideally end there and bolt the kit on.
Comments, thoughts?
Option 2 - A&A supercharger kit - Some searching indicates 475+ rwhp but what scares me is that with some searching (admit minimal) I see guys saying 115 and 118 trap speeds and others high 120s even 130. The car went 109 stock. Can I really bolt the kit on, get tuned and run 125+ or will it be a dyno number car? Frankly I could care less what the dyno says, I would much rather see trap speeds because that’s what it does on the road.
The car is a ‘99 M6 C5 I am getting from my dad. The whole heads/cam route I am familiar with and pretty much know it’ll deliver. When I add up all costs a supercharger kit is equal if not less. Can I really bolt the kit on, have stock like manners, except when on the gas hard and still run 125+ trap speeds? I may be tainted (been sort of car “retired” for 15 years) but my LT1 and early LS1 days it always seemed like forced induction sounded good but never really delivered. Have things changed? I’m intrigued to try it but I want to either do the blower kit and basically that’s it or else do the entire heads cam road. Not a blower but then need headers and then a cam and meth injection and on and on. I’d rather a 125+ trap speed and drive it and have fun and be done.
I’ll also be doing (everything is myself) clutch, rebuild torque tube, rebuild tranny, new bushings, fuel pump (with blower or do anyways if NA). If blower I would put new valve springs but ideally end there and bolt the kit on.
Comments, thoughts?