No Power to Brake switch
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
No Power to Brake switch (No Brake Lights)
2000 Coupe
manual transmission
I have no brake lights, and have been reading previous posts about the same issue. This thread is specific to no power to the brake switch from the Instrument Panel Electric Center.
I have checked the fuse #8 (and fuse #15), both fuses are good. I used a test light and I have power to both locations (with no fuse in the fuse box). With the fuses installed I get power on both sides of the fuse.
I removed the lower knee bolster and used the test light to check for power at the connector, and I have no power at the orange feed. I also checked the pink feed from fuse #15, and there is power there.
I have the wiring diagram from other posts on the forum, and it looks like if there is power at the instrument panel electrical center, and the fuse is good, there should be power at the orange wire feed at the brake switch.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to why there is no power at the orange wire at the brake switch?
manual transmission
I have no brake lights, and have been reading previous posts about the same issue. This thread is specific to no power to the brake switch from the Instrument Panel Electric Center.
I have checked the fuse #8 (and fuse #15), both fuses are good. I used a test light and I have power to both locations (with no fuse in the fuse box). With the fuses installed I get power on both sides of the fuse.
I removed the lower knee bolster and used the test light to check for power at the connector, and I have no power at the orange feed. I also checked the pink feed from fuse #15, and there is power there.
I have the wiring diagram from other posts on the forum, and it looks like if there is power at the instrument panel electrical center, and the fuse is good, there should be power at the orange wire feed at the brake switch.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to why there is no power at the orange wire at the brake switch?
Last edited by 10yrPlan; 11-23-2015 at 10:58 PM. Reason: update title
#2
Advanced
Thread Starter
Just as a note - When troubleshooting this, I found that the Instrument Panel Electric Center, slot #22 had no fuse. It is for the Body Control Module - Ignition 3. I checked the slot and it had power, so I installed a 10A fuse there. I don't know if I needed this, I don't know if it has anything to do with my rear defogger not working (I have another post for the rear defogger) - I just found it interesting that I didn't have any codes in the DIC, but the fuse was not there.
#5
Le Mans Master
Looked at the FSM. There are 3 connectors. Two are 4 cavity and one has two 2 cavities.
The Orange wire for brake lights goes to the 2 cavity one. The other cavity outputs the brake signal using a White and Light Blue wires.
One of the other 4 cavity connectors does have an Orange/Black wire.
If you need the connector views for the I/P fuse box I can provide that.
You have an internal fuse box issue or a wiring/connector issue for sure.
Mr. Sam
The Orange wire for brake lights goes to the 2 cavity one. The other cavity outputs the brake signal using a White and Light Blue wires.
One of the other 4 cavity connectors does have an Orange/Black wire.
If you need the connector views for the I/P fuse box I can provide that.
You have an internal fuse box issue or a wiring/connector issue for sure.
Mr. Sam
#6
Advanced
Thread Starter
I have power to the 4 cavity connector. It's the two cavity connector orange wire that has no power.
I would love to see the connector views for the I/P fuse box. If you have a diagram of the routing of the wire from the I/P fuse box to the brake switches, that would be helpful. I assume it just is routed under the dash somewhere.
- Thx, Mark
I would love to see the connector views for the I/P fuse box. If you have a diagram of the routing of the wire from the I/P fuse box to the brake switches, that would be helpful. I assume it just is routed under the dash somewhere.
- Thx, Mark
#7
Le Mans Master
I would be glad to post that for you. I looked and there are no connectors in between.
If it is a fuse box internal issue we can still power it from another source that would be from the GM provided accessory feeds in the passenger foot well or just use a fuse adapter from one of those circuits. I think they are 20 amp (will verify) so you would not have any overload concerns. You would have a choice of ALWAYS HOT or HOT in ACCESSORY or RUN.
Made a note to post the info when I get home.
Mr. Sam
If it is a fuse box internal issue we can still power it from another source that would be from the GM provided accessory feeds in the passenger foot well or just use a fuse adapter from one of those circuits. I think they are 20 amp (will verify) so you would not have any overload concerns. You would have a choice of ALWAYS HOT or HOT in ACCESSORY or RUN.
Made a note to post the info when I get home.
Mr. Sam
#8
Advanced
Thread Starter
Good idea. If I can't find the issue with the orange feed, I can look at pulling power from the cigarette lighter. I will be removing dash components to trouble shoot the "other" brake light problem, tho swill give me access to try and trace the orange feed from Instrument Panel Electric Center to the brake switch.
#9
Le Mans Master
Here are the fuse box connector views. You want I/P C1. The pin is B2 at the fuse location. C1 is the closest one to the stud where the big Red power feed from the engine fuse box lands.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aq4xscm5tp...Views.pdf?dl=0
Options for other power feeds:
1997-2003
In the passenger foot well there should be 3 auxiliary power wires.
Orange wire taped off. Always powered from Fuse #7 (20 Amp). This Fuse is shared with the cigarette lighter.
Orange wire to a connector. Always powered from Fuse #1 (20 Amp). Fuse is shared with the accessory power port in the center console.
Yellow wire taped off. Powered from ignition switch when in "ACC or On". Powered from Fuse #11 (20 Amp). Not shared with anything.
Here is a link with more info and pictures:
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ad.php?t=14632
Like I said, a lot of people just install a fuse adapter at the fuse location instead of using the wire leads.
Let me know if you need anything else.
Mr. Sam
https://www.dropbox.com/s/aq4xscm5tp...Views.pdf?dl=0
Options for other power feeds:
1997-2003
In the passenger foot well there should be 3 auxiliary power wires.
Orange wire taped off. Always powered from Fuse #7 (20 Amp). This Fuse is shared with the cigarette lighter.
Orange wire to a connector. Always powered from Fuse #1 (20 Amp). Fuse is shared with the accessory power port in the center console.
Yellow wire taped off. Powered from ignition switch when in "ACC or On". Powered from Fuse #11 (20 Amp). Not shared with anything.
Here is a link with more info and pictures:
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ad.php?t=14632
Like I said, a lot of people just install a fuse adapter at the fuse location instead of using the wire leads.
Let me know if you need anything else.
Mr. Sam
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10yrPlan (12-09-2015)
#10
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Thread Starter
Now that Thanksgiving is over, and I have one of my other cars finished and for sale, I am back on this no brake light issue (or opportunity, depending on your point of view).
I found the GM supplied auxiliary power wires - but I still want to try and find the root cause if I can.
Good News: When I supply power to the brake switch connector blue/white wires, all three brake lights work.
Bad News; I still haven't figured out why I am not getting power from the fuse block to the orange wire after fuse #8.
I have spent some time studying the wire diagram, and I thing that there are two load wires coming from fuse 8 that need power; Circuit C1 and B2, both orange wires. C1 feeds the brake switch, and B2 feeds the hazard switch.
My next step is to get to the back side of the fuse block and see if that is where the root cause is.
More good news; Since my last post I was able to buy a 2000 Corvette parts car. The fuse block is not useable, but it is a great reference to know what I am looking for on my car.
More to follow…..
I found the GM supplied auxiliary power wires - but I still want to try and find the root cause if I can.
Good News: When I supply power to the brake switch connector blue/white wires, all three brake lights work.
Bad News; I still haven't figured out why I am not getting power from the fuse block to the orange wire after fuse #8.
I have spent some time studying the wire diagram, and I thing that there are two load wires coming from fuse 8 that need power; Circuit C1 and B2, both orange wires. C1 feeds the brake switch, and B2 feeds the hazard switch.
My next step is to get to the back side of the fuse block and see if that is where the root cause is.
More good news; Since my last post I was able to buy a 2000 Corvette parts car. The fuse block is not useable, but it is a great reference to know what I am looking for on my car.
More to follow…..
#13
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Thread Starter
I just had an 'Ah Ha!' moment.
When I bought the car I removed what remained of an old car mounted mobile phone. They used power from the front side of a couple of fuses to power the phone and speaker by removing the fuse, inserting the mobile phone wire connector into the fuse location, then inserting the fuse. I wonder if this pushed the stock connector back, and when I removed the mobile phone connector I lost the power connection to the wire. (does that make sense?)
Now I really want to get to the back of the fuse block to see what is going on.
When I bought the car I removed what remained of an old car mounted mobile phone. They used power from the front side of a couple of fuses to power the phone and speaker by removing the fuse, inserting the mobile phone wire connector into the fuse location, then inserting the fuse. I wonder if this pushed the stock connector back, and when I removed the mobile phone connector I lost the power connection to the wire. (does that make sense?)
Now I really want to get to the back of the fuse block to see what is going on.
#14
Team Owner
I just had an 'Ah Ha!' moment.
When I bought the car I removed what remained of an old car mounted mobile phone. They used power from the front side of a couple of fuses to power the phone and speaker by removing the fuse, inserting the mobile phone wire connector into the fuse location, then inserting the fuse. I wonder if this pushed the stock connector back, and when I removed the mobile phone connector I lost the power connection to the wire. (does that make sense?).........
When I bought the car I removed what remained of an old car mounted mobile phone. They used power from the front side of a couple of fuses to power the phone and speaker by removing the fuse, inserting the mobile phone wire connector into the fuse location, then inserting the fuse. I wonder if this pushed the stock connector back, and when I removed the mobile phone connector I lost the power connection to the wire. (does that make sense?).........
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10yrPlan (12-09-2015)
#15
Le Mans Master
One Orange wire is to the stop lamp brake switch and the other to the Hazard switch for powering the hazards when the button is pushed.
Each one has their own circuit number.
Mr. Sam
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10yrPlan (12-09-2015)
#16
Advanced
Thread Starter
I had some help tonight, and the use of a Power Probe (I need to get one of those!) and we were able to determine the root case.
We used the power probe to the load side of the fuse female connection and had power to the brakes and hazard switch, so I now knew the wires were good. I focused on the female connector in the fuse block and found that it was deformed/opened so that there was no contact with the fuse on that side. (thank you LoneStarFRC) I twisted one side of the fuse so that it would make contact with the female contact and BAM I have brakes lights and hazard lights.
Certainly not what I would have expected- Wish I paid more attention when i removed the old wires from the mobile phone wiring.
Thank you Mr Sam for all your help, diagrams and assistance.
We used the power probe to the load side of the fuse female connection and had power to the brakes and hazard switch, so I now knew the wires were good. I focused on the female connector in the fuse block and found that it was deformed/opened so that there was no contact with the fuse on that side. (thank you LoneStarFRC) I twisted one side of the fuse so that it would make contact with the female contact and BAM I have brakes lights and hazard lights.
Certainly not what I would have expected- Wish I paid more attention when i removed the old wires from the mobile phone wiring.
Thank you Mr Sam for all your help, diagrams and assistance.
Last edited by 10yrPlan; 12-09-2015 at 09:47 PM.
#17
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Thread Starter
I wonder if I try to 'squeeze' the female connector back to 'original size', what is the potential for breaking or damaging the female connector so it is no good at all?
For now i think i will leave it alone.
For now i think i will leave it alone.
#18
Team Owner
The "legs" on the fuses are aluminum, and therefore pretty soft/malleable, so I took one of my small wire cutters and placed a leg in the jaws as if I were going to cut it, but only gently squeeze the wire cutter jaws together to make some indentations on the leg. VERY IMPORTANT: I made these indentations on the SIDES of the legs, not on the more broad, flat, portion. When squeezed in this manner, a small amount of the metal of the leg gets displaced creating a "bump" or bulge along each edge, making it a tiny bit larger in thickness. I did this in three places on each fuse leg, thus the reason for using the very small wire cutters.
After doing this, if the new series of "bumps" (for lack of a better word) or ridges, were a bit too large and "jaggedy" (official technical term ), I took a standard pair of pliers and squeezed the leg tightly on the "flat" sides to gently flatten these new "bumps" a bit. A little trial and error was involved, but the good news is, it worked! Now, when I plug that fuse into the slightly enlarged female fuse socket, the fuse fits snuggly as it should. The nice thing about this is your not risking some expensive piece of hardware, only a 20 or 30¢ fuse, and it only takes a few seconds.
HTH
#19
Le Mans Master
Never thought of that. I would not be concerned about moving the female pin to make better contact if you want to do that. The metal is not brittle unless you bend it a lot like you have to do to break a paperclip.
Glad you found it. Solid diagnostics will do it every time.
Mr. Sam
Glad you found it. Solid diagnostics will do it every time.
Mr. Sam