Cam recommendation, emphasis on valvetrain/spring friendly lobes and drivability
05-05-2016, 06:38 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Cam recommendation, emphasis on valvetrain/spring friendly lobes and drivability
So I have been kicking around the idea of tossing a cam in my '00 FRC C5 with a 6 speed, stock 3.42 rear. Car is a daily driver on nice days. Currently has longtubes, catless x-pipe, Z06 Ti catback, 3" cutouts, LS6 intake manifold, zip tie mod intake box, and LS6 blue valve springs (all recently installed). It drives like stock and makes ok power but when is that ever enough?
I had a 228R cam in my LQ4 E39 BMW and learned a WHOLE lot about what I do and don't want in a cam.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability. On my old setup a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Seeing as my engine has not been opened for 108K miles, I'm running original 2000 lifters, pushrods, etc.
Valvespring Compatibility: As mentioned before the valve springs were replaced with GM OEM LS6 units just a month or so ago. I do not want to have to replace the valve springs, either.
Driveability. Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives. Ease of tuning is a big factor as well.
Power: Yes, last on the list is power - a 30-40whp bump would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, and back roads.
Some folks have recommended the venerable GM Hot Cam - yes, it's dated, but seems to meet my criteria so far.
Thanks in advance
I had a 228R cam in my LQ4 E39 BMW and learned a WHOLE lot about what I do and don't want in a cam.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability. On my old setup a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Seeing as my engine has not been opened for 108K miles, I'm running original 2000 lifters, pushrods, etc.
Valvespring Compatibility: As mentioned before the valve springs were replaced with GM OEM LS6 units just a month or so ago. I do not want to have to replace the valve springs, either.
Driveability. Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives. Ease of tuning is a big factor as well.
Power: Yes, last on the list is power - a 30-40whp bump would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, and back roads.
Some folks have recommended the venerable GM Hot Cam - yes, it's dated, but seems to meet my criteria so far.
Thanks in advance
05-05-2016, 06:39 PM
#2
Drifting
Thread Starter
also just thinking about saying "screw the cam" and find some 4.10s 
05-05-2016, 11:59 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
This is a very common cam choice for most Corvette owners
My recommendation would be to use the Comp 918 valve springs
Do the Trunion upgrade mod
Both these things will guarantee valve spring and valve train life
Next to get more of a sleeper idle sound and to make tuning easier I would get a cam with an LSA of no less than a 114---Lower would create more overlap and be more dirty around town and at P/T
Duration simply RAISES the HP and TQ band--With a manual trans you can get away with a much higher duration at .050 than with an automatic--
So I would get something in the low to mid 230's----
As far as lift goes---Keep it under .600 to make the entire valve train live longer
My recommendation would be to use the Comp 918 valve springs
Do the Trunion upgrade mod
Both these things will guarantee valve spring and valve train life
Next to get more of a sleeper idle sound and to make tuning easier I would get a cam with an LSA of no less than a 114---Lower would create more overlap and be more dirty around town and at P/T
Duration simply RAISES the HP and TQ band--With a manual trans you can get away with a much higher duration at .050 than with an automatic--
So I would get something in the low to mid 230's----
As far as lift goes---Keep it under .600 to make the entire valve train live longer
05-06-2016, 07:30 AM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
This is a very common cam choice for most Corvette owners
My recommendation would be to use the Comp 918 valve springs
Do the Trunion upgrade mod
Both these things will guarantee valve spring and valve train life
Next to get more of a sleeper idle sound and to make tuning easier I would get a cam with an LSA of no less than a 114---Lower would create more overlap and be more dirty around town and at P/T
Duration simply RAISES the HP and TQ band--With a manual trans you can get away with a much higher duration at .050 than with an automatic--
So I would get something in the low to mid 230's----
As far as lift goes---Keep it under .600 to make the entire valve train live longer
My recommendation would be to use the Comp 918 valve springs
Do the Trunion upgrade mod
Both these things will guarantee valve spring and valve train life
Next to get more of a sleeper idle sound and to make tuning easier I would get a cam with an LSA of no less than a 114---Lower would create more overlap and be more dirty around town and at P/T
Duration simply RAISES the HP and TQ band--With a manual trans you can get away with a much higher duration at .050 than with an automatic--
So I would get something in the low to mid 230's----
As far as lift goes---Keep it under .600 to make the entire valve train live longer
Again, I want to use the new LS6 OEM springs I have installed.
05-06-2016, 08:56 AM
#6
You are going to be limiting yourself with those springs.
I personally wouldn't bother with a cam swap unless the springs weren't going to limit my results.
I'd get dual springs matched to the cam you want versus getting a cam matched to the springs you want.
Dual springs will protect from dropping a valve better than LS6 springs.
I personally wouldn't bother with a cam swap unless the springs weren't going to limit my results.
I'd get dual springs matched to the cam you want versus getting a cam matched to the springs you want.
Dual springs will protect from dropping a valve better than LS6 springs.
05-06-2016, 10:06 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
4:10's are very high on my best of mods list, bonus is 6th becomes very usable. Your description of perfect manners the gears only improve that......not many modifications do.
Should you decide to go that way a good idea would be to do the clutch @ the same so you are friendly to any additional power improvements. Not the LS7 clutch
Nice power gains from an Intake setup as well, no trade off's.
Tune friendly cam is 2* or less of overlap, 4* will start to show some minor kinks low gear low speed parking lot type maneuvers.
Should you decide to go that way a good idea would be to do the clutch @ the same so you are friendly to any additional power improvements. Not the LS7 clutch
Nice power gains from an Intake setup as well, no trade off's.
Tune friendly cam is 2* or less of overlap, 4* will start to show some minor kinks low gear low speed parking lot type maneuvers.
Last edited by CTD; 05-06-2016 at 11:50 PM.
05-06-2016, 10:22 AM
#8
Team Owner
But do NOT, however, use the Comp Cams needle bearing kit. Use this instead:http://www.straubtechnologies.com/ls...trunnion-kits/
I also agree on keeping the LSA in the 114-115 range.
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05-06-2016, 10:38 AM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
4:10's are very high on my best of mods list, bonus is 6th becomes very usable. Your description of perfect manners the gears only improve that......not many modifications do that.
Should you decide to go that way a good idea would be to do the clutch @ the same so you are friendly to any additional power improvements. Not the LS7 clutch
Nice power gains from an Intake setup as well, no trade off's.
Tune friendly cam is 2* or less of overlap, 4* will start to show some minor kinks low gear low speed parking lot type maneuvers.
Should you decide to go that way a good idea would be to do the clutch @ the same so you are friendly to any additional power improvements. Not the LS7 clutch
Nice power gains from an Intake setup as well, no trade off's.
Tune friendly cam is 2* or less of overlap, 4* will start to show some minor kinks low gear low speed parking lot type maneuvers.
Any reason you're not recommending the LS7? I installed one on my old BMW and loved the street manners, engagement, and price.
05-06-2016, 02:04 PM
#10
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
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St. Jude Donor '05
With your wish list although some may disagree prefer a heavier FW setup may tame some of the manner quirks a bit. Sure is nice hitting 2nd and have that stored energy to hit the tires hard too. As you go up in cubes weight doesnt seem to have quite the effect. Debatable, throwing it out there
Also wtih 4.10 youre not in the range you were before or if you were not as long so minimize bucking. Gear it for the cam not the "desired cruise rpm" and it will act the way its supposed to.
Also wtih 4.10 youre not in the range you were before or if you were not as long so minimize bucking. Gear it for the cam not the "desired cruise rpm" and it will act the way its supposed to.
Last edited by cv67; 05-10-2016 at 11:29 AM.
05-07-2016, 02:02 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
The Comp 918 spring is far more robust than the stock LS6 spring by a long ways
The cam specs you provided are not clear---228/ 288 I am guessing you mean both int and exh have a duration of .228 at .050--that is a very mild cam even with a 112 LSA
Of course without cats you will get a smelly exhaust anyway---Unless you have driven an old school car with no cats you won't realize that the smell is normal
However to eliminate the possibility that your engine is running RICH both at P/T and WOT is to put it on a wideband and verify the actual AFR----At P/T the AFR should be between 13.0 and 14.68---closer to 14.68 is ideal-----and at WOT on a daily driver you would like and AFR of about 12.50----On a more of a track car and tuned a little leaner would produce more top end HP--like a 12.7 to 12.9
The cam specs you provided are not clear---228/ 288 I am guessing you mean both int and exh have a duration of .228 at .050--that is a very mild cam even with a 112 LSA
Of course without cats you will get a smelly exhaust anyway---Unless you have driven an old school car with no cats you won't realize that the smell is normal
However to eliminate the possibility that your engine is running RICH both at P/T and WOT is to put it on a wideband and verify the actual AFR----At P/T the AFR should be between 13.0 and 14.68---closer to 14.68 is ideal-----and at WOT on a daily driver you would like and AFR of about 12.50----On a more of a track car and tuned a little leaner would produce more top end HP--like a 12.7 to 12.9
05-09-2016, 10:02 AM
#12
Melting Slicks
one of my criteria is quick clean shifts. The LS7 clutch wouldn't shift as I increased rpm, was going to try a tick M/C.......puked the motor instead 
03-15-2017, 08:28 AM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
Back from the dead - I ended up going with 4.10s breaking them in now.
breaking them in now.
06-29-2017, 10:10 AM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
Ok, reviving this thread from the dead. I have revised my goals and requirements to be a bit more realistic after doing a few months more homework.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability. On my old setup a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Seeing as my engine has not been opened for 108K miles, I'm running original 2000 lifters, pushrods, etc.
Valvespring Compatibility: I am comfortable with replacing the LS6 valve springs with a good quality set of dual springs with Titanium retainers. Of course this opens up a whole new world in terms of what cams are now available for use.
Driveability. Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives. Ease of tuning is a big factor as well.
Power: Yes, last on the list is power - a 30-40whp bump would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, and back roads. EDIT: I do 3-4 road course days a year where the car spends a fair bit of time above 4000 rpm. I still spend a ton of time on the street, so mid-range torque would be nice. Don't want to have wait til 4000rpm to get going.
EDIT again: Now running 4.10 gears.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability. On my old setup a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Seeing as my engine has not been opened for 108K miles, I'm running original 2000 lifters, pushrods, etc.
Valvespring Compatibility: I am comfortable with replacing the LS6 valve springs with a good quality set of dual springs with Titanium retainers. Of course this opens up a whole new world in terms of what cams are now available for use.
Driveability. Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives. Ease of tuning is a big factor as well.
Power: Yes, last on the list is power - a 30-40whp bump would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, and back roads. EDIT: I do 3-4 road course days a year where the car spends a fair bit of time above 4000 rpm. I still spend a ton of time on the street, so mid-range torque would be nice. Don't want to have wait til 4000rpm to get going.
EDIT again: Now running 4.10 gears.
Last edited by nsogiba; 06-29-2017 at 10:39 AM.
07-06-2017, 11:46 AM
#16
I'm tempted to do a similar cam swap. I wouldn't mind doing the trunion upgrade and springs, as long as it can survive road course driving. An extra 30hp would help wake the car up. Like Norb, I have headers and an LS6 intake to help the cam along. I don't mind tuning for a choppy idle, but I do enjoy cruising at 1300 rpm.
07-06-2017, 04:27 PM
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
I'm tempted to do a similar cam swap. I wouldn't mind doing the trunion upgrade and springs, as long as it can survive road course driving. An extra 30hp would help wake the car up. Like Norb, I have headers and an LS6 intake to help the cam along. I don't mind tuning for a choppy idle, but I do enjoy cruising at 1300 rpm.
Howard's ASA cam is a 226/236 .525/.525. That low lift offers a lot of valve spring friendliness but can still offer a mean idle and power band on a 110 or 113 LSA.
07-06-2017, 06:45 PM
#18
Instructor
Avoid Comp. Cams needle bearing upgrade ? Could you please elaborate ? I also have the PAC Beehive springs , great , you guys are scaring the hell out of me........
07-07-2017, 11:03 AM
#19
Team Owner
A few topics going on at ls1tech.com about the Comp Trunion.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...12k-miles.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...come-look.html
If you want a very stable cam I would call EPS and CamMotion. I always go with a good set of double springs. My current car has Brian Tooley springs.
Ramp rates which aren't widely published have more impact than lift on stability. The LPE GT2-3 is often considered a low maintenance cam with only a duration of 207/220 but .573/.580 lift.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...12k-miles.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...come-look.html
If you want a very stable cam I would call EPS and CamMotion. I always go with a good set of double springs. My current car has Brian Tooley springs.
Ramp rates which aren't widely published have more impact than lift on stability. The LPE GT2-3 is often considered a low maintenance cam with only a duration of 207/220 but .573/.580 lift.
Last edited by 93Polo; 07-07-2017 at 11:25 AM.
07-07-2017, 02:26 PM
#20
Instructor
A few topics going on at ls1tech.com about the Comp Trunion.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...12k-miles.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...come-look.html
If you want a very stable cam I would call EPS and CamMotion. I always go with a good set of double springs. My current car has Brian Tooley springs.
Ramp rates which aren't widely published have more impact than lift on stability. The LPE GT2-3 is often considered a low maintenance cam with only a duration of 207/220 but .573/.580 lift.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...12k-miles.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...come-look.html
If you want a very stable cam I would call EPS and CamMotion. I always go with a good set of double springs. My current car has Brian Tooley springs.
Ramp rates which aren't widely published have more impact than lift on stability. The LPE GT2-3 is often considered a low maintenance cam with only a duration of 207/220 but .573/.580 lift.