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I'll keep the long story at the bottom for those of you who don't want to read about another 'vette crash, but I did have some questions for you guys regarding some skid plate damage and installation issues. During an accident, the original skid plate was torn from the frame, leaving large holes I'm not sure the stock nutserts would fit snug in.
Skid Plate Questions
1. Has anyone ever dealt with the issue of the Skid-Plate To Frame mounting area being damaged enough to where the stock nutsert is simply too small, and if so, how did you go about fixing this?
2. Does anyone know any sort of dimensions for the bolts required for mounting the skid plate to the car? I can get part numbers, but since I'll most certainly have to come up with a creative solution to mount the skid plate back to the car, any sort of dimensions (thread pitch, length, ANYTHING) would help me get closer to mounting the plate back to the car and putting in the rest of the pieces.
3. Should I find the nutserts that do fit within the bigger holes, does anyone have any tips on putting the things in?
Now that that's out of the way, here's what happened.
About a month ago, while driving home in a pretty bad storm, a leak reared it's ugly head in the passenger foot well, effectively killing the wipers. I'd stopped on the side of the road to, at the very least, cover the BCM and fuse box, but as the rain was coming down VERY hard, the drivers behind me weren't able to see me until the last minute. I stupidly decided to try to follow a car to somewhere covered where I could wait the rain out and prevent the electronics from frying, but I failed to notice a ~3 foot ditch. Luckily, I obviously wasn't flying down the road, so the frame has turned out fine, the engine still cranks, and somehow, the headlights still work, as well as the wheels aren't damaged. While driving the car from the tow yard to my father's driveway (Living in an apartment, I lack a garage), nothing felt out of the ordinary in terms of steering, transmission, or suspension. Unfortunately, the towing company I had used tried to lift the car by the front bumper, which promptly tore the front bumper to pieces. They are forever on my "do not call" list . This leaves me with the issue of trying to remount the skid plate in order to replace the radiator, AIR pump, and every other accessory that mounts to the plate.
To make the story a little easier to take, the engine still cranks with no issue, a new front bumper is being painted this week and going on as soon as the skid plate can be mounted, and that darn foot well leak is going to be fixed.
Out of all the car forums I've been on, you guys have been the most helpful bunch of owners I have ever met, so I thank you in advance for any tips or advice you guys have for me. And, of course, any comments about my intelligence is completely deserved. This whole situation broke my heart, as I've been around Corvettes and GM cars in general since I was born, and I feel as though I've taken a part of my family's history and destroyed it. I am not ready to let this car die yet.
Thank you guys so much for looking, and thanks in advance for any tips you guys have.
pictures would be helpful.
You might need to get steel patches welded onto the area where the nut-serts go.
Once you share pictures I expect you will get lots of suggestions
Sheet metal repair/weld the damaged areas on the skid frame and insert new correct size clinch nuts.. Harbor freight sells the nuts and insert driver.
You can also order a new skid frame and or contact Forum Member VETTENUTS and get USED (LIKE NEW) frame and any other parts that you may need. He runs a C5/C6 salvage yard..
Your talking about the lower radiator support (took me a minute but I knew what you meant). If vettenuts or any of the salvage shops don't have one in stock you can buy an aftermarket one instead of one from GM. The only difference besides being $120 cheaper is it's not painted black. I have a C6 with the front cap off of it at the moment so I was looking at how you could do the clinch nuts without opening the side of the frame rail to place and weld. Don't see a way around it. I was thinking you may be able to use long bolts like the cradles use (through the top/bottom of the frame rail) but the front one would interfere with the hood hinge. The back one should clear the upper radiator support. He had to really put some pressure on it to pop those clinch nuts off their welds (unless that was the wreck). Unless you want to take the front bar off the rails you will have to cut a hole in the frame rails and patch.
some pic's would be helpful, that damage I would not take lightly, has a sufficient importance to the structure of the car ???
Originally Posted by Sam Handwich
pictures would be helpful.
You might need to get steel patches welded onto the area where the nut-serts go.
Once you share pictures I expect you will get lots of suggestions
D'oh, I knew there was something I forgot to add to this post
I should add that this was taken at 5 in the morning, and the angle makes the frame look incredibly bent, but it isn't. The holes themselves look to be at least somewhere close to what some other members have graciously posted for my reference, although there is clearly some damage I'll have to sort out. I promise you, I am not taking any of this lightly, every bit of this sucks Welding, however, might be an option to take. I'm not much of a welder myself, but I do have a buddy at work who I'm sure could work some magic with a little bit of gas money
Huge thanks to both of you for assisting me to the best of your abilities without having seen what I've actually got to deal with. Definitely gave me some ideas to work with
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
Why isn't the tow company fixing this?????? WOW!
Sheet metal repair/weld the damaged areas on the skid frame and insert new correct size clinch nuts.. Harbor freight sells the nuts and insert driver.
You can also order a new skid frame and or contact Forum Member VETTENUTS and get USED (LIKE NEW) frame and any other parts that you may need. He runs a C5/C6 salvage yard..
Bill
Oh man, the whole situation with the tow company has been something of a nightmare for me. I'm not one to ever be critical of someone who helped me out of a mistake I made, but I cannot fathom what made this guy try to lift the car in such a way.
I do actually have a new skid plate sitting with me right now, as the other one is literally in pieces, so at the very least that's taken care of. I'd actually thought about contacting VETTENUTS, but I'm still not entirely sure what I should be purchasing. The holes in the picture are part of the entire frame of the car, are they not?
I really appreciate your advice, Bill, you've helped a bunch during my time here
Originally Posted by bmfvette
Your talking about the lower radiator support (took me a minute but I knew what you meant). If vettenuts or any of the salvage shops don't have one in stock you can buy an aftermarket one instead of one from GM. The only difference besides being $120 cheaper is it's not painted black. I have a C6 with the front cap off of it at the moment so I was looking at how you could do the clinch nuts without opening the side of the frame rail to place and weld. Don't see a way around it. I was thinking you may be able to use long bolts like the cradles use (through the top/bottom of the frame rail) but the front one would interfere with the hood hinge. The back one should clear the upper radiator support. He had to really put some pressure on it to pop those clinch nuts off their welds (unless that was the wreck). Unless you want to take the front bar off the rails you will have to cut a hole in the frame rails and patch.
Ah, sorry, I should have been more clear on the parts. I do actually have a brand new radiator support/skid plate (hopefully I'm not mixing up those two parts as the same part), although I am wishing I saw that you could pick up a painted one. I'm, not surprisingly, not good with paint. Regarding the actual mounting, I unfortunately also don't see a way around cutting into the rail either, unless those holes are so big now that I could just hold it in place while I threaded the bolt in, but then it would simply loosely roll around any time the nose of the car met with an incline a bit too steep. I do wonder if the cradle bolts would work, however, in the rear, since that's a little bit further from the hinges, but I think I'd still have to cut the bolts, which wouldn't be good for anyone I'll look more into the cutting and patching idea.
Seriously, thank you for going out on your own time and looking at how I could do this, I'm incredibly grateful for you doing that.
Originally Posted by Marc@Vettenuts.net
We carry used and the new reproductions. Check out my web site for pricing.
I bought a new skid frame and cut out some metal plates that were welded to it before it was installed to increase the strength. GM didn't include inserts so Rivnuts were used. Two large aftermarket roller assemblies similar to these (https://www.amazon.com/Corvette-Fron.../dp/B0071N6Y4K) were added and after several years the new skid frame is in great shape. Here's a picture of the old frame and the strengthened new one,.
Here's a closeup of one side after welding and before paint,.
I wouldn't bother welding on the frame. It's not really necessary to fix your issue.
Make new tabs to weld to the support so you can drill new holes and install new rivet nuts in another location.
If not that, then make up plates with rivet nuts and drill out the holes enough the nuts will fit through. Then put 2 new rivet nuts and bolts in front and behind the original location. Or use 2 (or 4) really big steel rivets in the plates ahead and behind the original location. Personally, I'd just use big rivets.
Do take a look and see if any of the holes would accept 1 size larger rivet nut first.
Last edited by lionelhutz; 07-14-2016 at 10:11 AM.
I ripped the nutsert out of my frame 10 years ago. I was able to partially expand the OEM nutsert before installation enough to get it to hold and then expand inside the frame using a home made installation tool. A year ago the frame metal fatigued enough for the nutsert to fall out, and there was now a big hole in the frame. I believe the stock nutsert is a number 6. I found nutserts up to number 12 at McMaster Carr which is what my expanded frame hole required. I drilled the frame hole with the recommended drill size. Try a size 8 first, if too small a 10. You can make an insertion tool from a bolt, washers, and nuts.
I bought a new skid frame and cut out some metal plates that were welded to it before it was installed to increase the strength. GM didn't include inserts so Rivnuts were used. Two large aftermarket roller assemblies similar to these (https://www.amazon.com/Corvette-Fron.../dp/B0071N6Y4K) were added and after several years the new skid frame is in great shape. Here's a picture of the old frame and the strengthened new one,*pics*.
Here's a closeup of one side after welding and before paint,*pics*.
That is actually a terrific idea, and it looks like that sucker is strong now. On my father's Z06, the previous owner had also installed the rollers you had mentioned, and it's one of those mods I wish I'd known about before. Regarding the Rivnuts, I was actually considering those, but I might have found another solution that might work as well Thank you so much for providing even more ideas for not only fixing the skid plate solution, but also strengthening the hell out of it too. Seriously appreciated
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
I wouldn't bother welding on the frame. It's not really necessary to fix your issue.
Make new tabs to weld to the support so you can drill new holes and install new rivet nuts in another location.
If not that, then make up plates with rivet nuts and drill out the holes enough the nuts will fit through. Then put 2 new rivet nuts and bolts in front and behind the original location. Or use 2 (or 4) really big steel rivets in the plates ahead and behind the original location. Personally, I'd just use big rivets.
Do take a look and see if any of the holes would accept 1 size larger rivet nut first.
Originally Posted by fmvette9
I ripped the nutsert out of my frame 10 years ago. I was able to partially expand the OEM nutsert before installation enough to get it to hold and then expand inside the frame using a home made installation tool. A year ago the frame metal fatigued enough for the nutsert to fall out, and there was now a big hole in the frame. I believe the stock nutsert is a number 6. I found nutserts up to number 12 at McMaster Carr which is what my expanded frame hole required. I drilled the frame hole with the recommended drill size. Try a size 8 first, if too small a 10. You can make an insertion tool from a bolt, washers, and nuts.
I'm responding to both of these answers as they both relate to my current idea.
Luckily, my dad has had some free time to help me out (Probably in the interest of getting my car out of his damned driveway ), and after I showed him both of your ideas and he came up with a solution that, so far, I've seen no huge issues with.
I'll attach some pictures so that what I'm talking about isn't a crazy jumble of words, but we have a few U-Bolts laying around that surprisingly almost fit around the frame, as well as some flat pieces of metal that we could drill to fit said U-Bolts to use as brackets. His idea is effectively place the U-Bolt on top of the frame rail and attach the "brackets" on the bottom, trapping the skid plate tabs, which normally mount to the frame via said bolts and nutserts.
My terrible art aside (I am definitely better with computers than drawing), I can really only see some small issues. And of course, we'd find U-Bolts much better than ones that were simply laying around.
1.) This wouldn't win any car shows any time soon.
2.) The U-Bolt might be able to move a little more freely than I'd like.
3.) The skid plate might be off a few milimeters.
I was originally worried about the integrity of the frame, but considering it is a load-bearing piece of the car, I'd really only have worries about the U-Bolts. The other potential issue I see is the U-Bolt actually blocking the hood hinge, but when test-fitting with a "worst-case scenario" bolt we'd likely never use, the hood closed with no issue.
I realize that this isn't pretty, it won't be as strong as welding, and it would be an absolute pain to replace, but even as a temporary solution to simply get the radiator off of the single, nearly broken piece of old skid plate, do you guys see any huge issues I'm not seeing?
Thank you guys so much for giving me all of the ideas and help that you have, I owe all of you some gas money
That should work fine except I'm not quite understanding one thing. Don't the mounting tabs has little angle brackets on them stopping you from clamping them between the frame and a plate?
Nothing in front of the crossmember is load bearing. The front part of the frame is for crash protection. That skid plate/rad support certainly isn't needed to be on the car for any structural integrity. Don't damage the frame rails and you're fine that way.
D'oh, I knew there was something I forgot to add to this post
I should add that this was taken at 5 in the morning, and the angle makes the frame look incredibly bent, but it isn't. The holes themselves look to be at least somewhere close to what some other members have graciously posted for my reference, although there is clearly some damage I'll have to sort out. I promise you, I am not taking any of this lightly, every bit of this sucks Welding, however, might be an option to take. I'm not much of a welder myself, but I do have a buddy at work who I'm sure could work some magic with a little bit of gas money
Huge thanks to both of you for assisting me to the best of your abilities without having seen what I've actually got to deal with. Definitely gave me some ideas to work with
Oh man, the whole situation with the tow company has been something of a nightmare for me. I'm not one to ever be critical of someone who helped me out of a mistake I made, but I cannot fathom what made this guy try to lift the car in such a way.
I do actually have a new skid plate sitting with me right now, as the other one is literally in pieces, so at the very least that's taken care of. I'd actually thought about contacting VETTENUTS, but I'm still not entirely sure what I should be purchasing. The holes in the picture are part of the entire frame of the car, are they not?
I really appreciate your advice, Bill, you've helped a bunch during my time here
Ah, sorry, I should have been more clear on the parts. I do actually have a brand new radiator support/skid plate (hopefully I'm not mixing up those two parts as the same part), although I am wishing I saw that you could pick up a painted one. I'm, not surprisingly, not good with paint. Regarding the actual mounting, I unfortunately also don't see a way around cutting into the rail either, unless those holes are so big now that I could just hold it in place while I threaded the bolt in, but then it would simply loosely roll around any time the nose of the car met with an incline a bit too steep. I do wonder if the cradle bolts would work, however, in the rear, since that's a little bit further from the hinges, but I think I'd still have to cut the bolts, which wouldn't be good for anyone I'll look more into the cutting and patching idea.
Seriously, thank you for going out on your own time and looking at how I could do this, I'm incredibly grateful for you doing that.
Marc, I wish I'd asked sooner, those prices are much better than what I was looking at. Do you happen to have the bolts and nutserts in stock?
Guys, thank you so much for all of your help, this is taking a heavy weight off of my chest and doing away with a LOT of confusion.
We have the bolts and nutserts in stock. We also carry an over sized nutsert they may come in handy for your frame.
We have the bolts and nutserts in stock. We also carry an over sized nutsert they may come in handy for your frame.
I'll be browsing your site tonight after work, thank you so much for letting me know you guys have 99% of what I need
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
That should work fine except I'm not quite understanding one thing. Don't the mounting tabs has little angle brackets on them stopping you from clamping them between the frame and a plate?
Nothing in front of the crossmember is load bearing. The front part of the frame is for crash protection. That skid plate/rad support certainly isn't needed to be on the car for any structural integrity. Don't damage the frame rails and you're fine that way.
After reading this, I went back to the drawing board and came up with another solution, which doesn't involve redneck-style u-bolts.
Effectively I'll be grinding down the gnarled metal on the frame and making everything level. Then, I'll be making brackets from a steel bar, with holes for a nut on the top side. Once the nuts are secured onto the brackets (JB Weld for now, welded once I can get a friend to weld the nut in), I'll be drilling out holes in the frame for the nuts to fit. After that, I'll be attaching those brackets to the frame so that the nuts sit right in where the old nutserts used to be. Best compromise I can come up with without having the ability to weld.
I have run into an unrelated issue, but I don't want that to overtake this thread.
Has anyone ever mounted the DeWitt fan shroud to a stock radiator? I see a lot of guys doing the full cooling revamp (new radiator, new fans, etc.), but my issue right now is that my current shroud is broken beyond repair, and GMPartsDirect is saying they're not sure when they'll get more in stock. Ideally I'd just get the shroud, but if it doesn't bolt up, does anyone have any other ideas?
Thanks so much guys, I'll keep this updated with pics soon
Hey guys, long time no update. Been busy with work and some other life stuff, but;
Car is back together.
SO. First of all, thank you everyone who posted with a ton of help, it made my life far easier when it came down to fixing this thing. There was a lot of brainstorming that came from all of your posts, and it ended with a very happy 20 year old.
The way I ended up fixing this actually came from my dad, after I thought of using a flat steel bar bolted to the frame to hold everything. We ended up using some steel that was damned near perfect width for the frame rails, held in to by self-drilling screws, with new bolts, nuts, and washers holding the radiator support where the nutserts had been torn out by the tow company (The owner ended up being an incredibly nice guy who lowered my bill quite a bit ). The bolts themselves are a little weird, as they aren't really secured by much other than JB-Weld to the bar. Ideally, I'll go back and properly weld them in, but since they've been on the car for 5 months with no signs of failure, I'm just going to hope my brilliant butt doesn't end up in a ditch again with failing wipers.
I also replaced the destroyed radiator shroud with a DeWitt SPAL shroud, which gave me a surprising difference in temps (200 Dead after about 30 minutes of driving on the highway vs 220 with the old shroud).
Despite what I was expecting, when I drove it again, you literally could not tell it was in an accident, save for the mud built up on the floor mats from when it was crashed. Hell, it didn't even need an alignment after hopping up a curb and down 3 feet, it handled just like it did when I bought it.
This was not the prettiest, best fix ever, and it certainly lowered the resale value, but I just don't care. I got some father-son time out of it with my dad, and I have the car I worked my butt off to get back. Now I can go back to working on bolt ons (which was partially taken care of by the destroyed stock airbox; slapped an Airaid filter on there for good measure )
Thank you guys so much for all of your help, and sorry for the severely late update! Was enjoying having it back a little too much.
Hey guys, long time no update. Been busy with work and some other life stuff, but;
Car is back together.
The way I ended up fixing this actually came from my dad, after I thought of using a flat steel bar bolted to the frame to hold everything. We ended up using some steel that was damned near perfect width for the frame rails, held in to by self-drilling screws, with new bolts, nuts, and washers holding the radiator support where the nutserts had been torn out by the tow company (The owner ended up being an incredibly nice guy who lowered my bill quite a bit ). The bolts themselves are a little weird, as they aren't really secured by much other than JB-Weld to the bar. Ideally, I'll go back and properly weld them in, but since they've been on the car for 5 months with no signs of failure, I'm just going to hope my brilliant butt doesn't end up in a ditch again with failing wipers.
That's pretty much the way I fixed my wallowed out nutsert holes, except I put my support plates inside the frame rail, so the radiator support hangs at the normal height. Basically, four square 3/8" plates with five holes each drilled and tapped in an x pattern, drilled mounting holes in the frame for the four outer holes and just bolted everything in.
07-13-2016, 01:49 AM
Rebuilding My C5 (Skid Plate Troubles)
. This leaves me with the issue of trying to remount the skid plate in order to replace the radiator, AIR pump, and every other accessory that mounts to the plate.
WOW!
Welding, however, might be an option to take. I'm not much of a welder myself, but I do have a buddy at work who I'm sure could work some magic with a little bit of gas money 
.
.
On my father's Z06, the previous owner had also installed the rollers you had mentioned, and it's one of those mods I wish I'd known about before. Regarding the Rivnuts, I was actually considering those, but I might have found another solution that might work as well 
)
