yellowshark454

As an Englishman living in England all my cars during my life have been European (including Ford Europe models) apart from my C3 and 2001 C5 (bought new). I would have to say that the C5 has had the "worst" Parking brake I have experienced. "Worst" in terms of parking on a hill. In 2009 I moved to my current house which has a really steep drive to the garage and I ended up putting bricks behind the rear wheels when parked. I took the C5 to my local non Corvette garage and they adjusted the brakes for me (possibly also fitting new shoes, I cannot recall) and since then it has been fine.

K-Spaz

I'm not sure you even need to remove the seat to see what's going on. the stuff you need to look at is up top, so it's fairly easy to get to.

I don't think the boot needs to come off either.

leadfoot4

Maybe not, but I did a search, here, a couple of days ago, and one of the earlier discussions said that removing the seat gave a lot more access...

K-Spaz

It does need to come out if you're going to remove it. But if you just want to see what's going on and diagnose, it can stay in. If the parts I outlined above are working, your problem is elsewhere.

leadfoot4

I know that the mechanism in the rear end is working, because the e-brake, while not 100% to my satisfaction, is working notably better since I re-adjusted the shoes. So, by process of elimination, I have to go after the handle assembly, at the front of the "chain". Pulling the seat isn't all that big of a deal, once I work up the ambition......

any4xx

Did you previously mention using the proper tool for shoe clearance? If so, I'd forget about that adjustment and do it again by feel. Adjust them out so that you can barely get the disc back on. I did this to my '04 and the parking brake went from completely useless to working great. If I remember correctly, I added about forty clicks of the adjuster to each side. Which was WAAAY more than I ever expected to do. And the shoes looked to be in like-new condition.

leadfoot4

Yes, I did. I have the shoes adjusted so there's 0.015" clearance between the inside of the rotor and the OD of the shoes.

any4xx

Yeah.... tighten them up. If you can just barely wiggle the discs back into place over them they'll work great. If you can slide the discs on and off without any effort (like when there's "proper clearance") they're too loose.

jackthelad

When I lived there many years back now, there was a requirement on the MOT to demonstrate actual stopping power with the handbrake. And it had to operate within so many notches - forget the details now. But I do remember having to make sure the handbrakes on the Minis that we owned were properly adjusted before the test. Besides you needed it to work properly for the odd handbrake turn.......

striper

My '03 Z also had typical crappy parking brakes. After adjusting the internal rear brakes it was better but the handle would reach to the sky when pulled up. After taking the seat out, I was able to remove the mechanism. I totally cleaned out every trace of hardened GM lube and cleaned till like new. I relubed it and after installation, it works like its supposed to. It doesn't come up higher than 45 degrees and really tightens the brakes, yet you still can out drive them. However, due to years of not working properly, I still have a habit of also parking in gear. The C5 brake is far from the worst though. I had an '83 Z28 with rear discs that nobody was ever able to get working correctly.

leadfoot4

That's what I'm hoping to achieve, and I'm going to "get after it" this coming week. With respect to the "leaving it in gear", don't feel bad. many of us "old timers" were around back when GM's steering column/shifter interlock was in place, and you HAD to shift the car into reverse (on stick shift cars) in order to get the key out.

leadfoot4

Just an update.....


I removed the seat a little while ago, and removed the p-brake mechanism from the transmission tunnel. Turned out it was working OK, and there was no trace at all, of old, dried up grease. I did, however, give everything a good shot of spray lube, just to be safe.

I really don't feel like pulling the rear wheels/calipers/caliper brackets off again, at this moment. However, in another 3-4 weeks, I'll be storing the car for the winter. When I put it away, I pull the "good" wheels and tires, and put the OE wheels, and worn out OE tires on it, so I'll pull the brakes apart again, at that time, and adjust the shoes one more time.

jadoux

Out of GM Service manuals

Adjust the park brake shoe-to-drum clearance by rotating the adjustment nut on the park brake actuator.
Specification
0.38 mm (0.015 in)

Install the rear brake rotors. Refer to Rear Brake Rotor Replacement .
Install the rear tire and wheel assemblies. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation .
Apply and release the park brake lever 3 times .
Apply the park brake lever. Inspect the rotation of the rear wheels:

• The wheels should not rotate forward.

• The wheels should drag or not rotate rearward.

If the rear tire and wheel assemblies rotate forward or do not exhibit drag rearward, repeat the adjustment procedure.
Release the parking lever. Verify that the wheels rotate freely
Lower the vehicle

Notice that they advised to test and repeat, it means it might not be the correct adjustment from the first time

K-Spaz

The new handle I got never had any grease on it either. I can't say if GM put the sticky stuff on the original or not. I just know someone did and it was an awful mess. Given that someone else above had the same thing I want to believe GM put it on early cars and then decided it wasn't such a great idea on later model years.

Does your handle pull up till it stops with little or no effort? If so, you've either got a broken cable, issue with that ratchet finger I pointed out above, or the shoes are not adjusted up properly.

leadfoot4

It, the handle, ratchets properly, and the shoes are set to a 0.015" gap. As has been discussed here, there seems to be a difference in opinion as to what this "brake" is supposed to do. Some say "parking brake", as in a device to keep the car from rolling away, if the car is "parked" but the transmission is left in neutral, in a stick shift car. No more, no less.

Then there are us "old farts", who remember when this device was known as an "emergency brake", a mechanical device that would help slow the car if the hydraulic brakes failed. Not to be used continually, but something that could stop the car once, in an emergency situation.

My car currently falls into the "former" mode, as I adjusted the p'brake shoes to spec, and the car won't roll away. But if I give the car a little gas, and ease out the clutch, the car will move, somewhat. What I'm used to, is a p'brake that may not stop the car from a roll over 6-8 MPH, but will hold the car if the car is stopped, the brake engaged, and then moving the car with the throttle is attempted.

K-Spaz

Ratcheting has nothing to do with it. The parts I showed in the pictures above DO NOT ratchet. They are a pawl that auto-adjusts by being disengaged when the handle is down. The only time it will ratchet (under normal conditions) is when the brake shoes wear to a point it needs ONE more tooth on that cam shown. Otherwise, the cam is picked up by that pawl when you first pull the handle, then that pawl pulls the cable by turning that cam. The ratcheting is what holds the handle in place and has zero to do with the brake working or not. That will always make that noise.

Please re-read what I said in the posts with the picture above. If I didn't write that clearly enough and it doesn't make sense, pm me and I'll be happy to give you a number to call and talk you through what I'm saying when you have it open. You'd need the console out to test what I'm saying, but that's all.
That pawl A as shown is in the UP (disengaged) position. The stop B is holding it up. B and D are the only parts labeled that don't ever move. If you look at A and think about pulling the handle to rotate it, it is supposed to immediately fall into C and pick up one of those 11 adjusting notches. That depends upon where C was left from the last time. That never makes a sound pulling or releasing. When you release, the springs on the rear cables retract that cam C to a point where the brake self adjusts at the handle. This doesn't make up for adjusting at the drum, but it takes up wear on the pads over time. As the pads wear more and more of those teeth on that cam will be left under the stop/release B so they can't be picked up. That makes the cable tighter on the pads/drums giving it sort of a head start.

HTH

leadfoot4

Just an update.......


As previously mentioned, I set the p'brake shoes, and later removed and lubricated the p'brake handle assembly inside the car. By some miracle, the brake now holds even if I try to give the car a little "gas" when the brake is engaged.

Horray!!

K-Spaz

leadfoot4

K-Spaz

Mine also won't move. I was just in Tuco's car a little bit ago and his works the same. No way is that car moving with the parking brake on.

I have a theory on yours. I would bet that part A above was sticking "somewhat" and though it was eventually falling into the cam, it had already missed several teeth because it was falling slow. So as you pull the handle quickly, it falls in slow but you're halfway to the stop before it starts pulling the cable. Now with the lube on there it falls right as soon as it moves away from the lifting stop B so you get 100% of the cable tension.

That's why it now works 'by some miracle"

Mine was in my A4 car and for 2 years I had no idea why it wasn't working. I also thought, 'well, it ratchets, that must be right". I could also see the cable move if someone else pulled the handle and I was under the car. So I thought the cable was ok. Well yea it was. But not until it got to the very last part of that cam where you see there's a big stop on the end of that. Well, that's gonna pull about 1/4" of cable which does nothing, as you and I and 100 other people have found out.