Advanced Induction or As Cast PRC Heads
12-01-2016, 07:53 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Advanced Induction or As Cast PRC Heads
In an attempt to make lemonade from a lemon cam (not determined yet), I'm going to do some heads.
Car gets used for HPDE's.
Pat G will spec the cam.
For heads I'm thinking of either Having AI do their full porting on my stock heads (CNC'd High Compression 219cc). I've read some good things about their work. The other option I'm looking at is some PRC as cast 225's. Maybe its not a fair comparison as the PRC's are about $600 more. I'm interested in lots of mid lift flow as opposed to only high lift peak flow.
What do you think, how much will I be leaving on the table with AI porting on the stockers?
Car gets used for HPDE's.
Pat G will spec the cam.
For heads I'm thinking of either Having AI do their full porting on my stock heads (CNC'd High Compression 219cc). I've read some good things about their work. The other option I'm looking at is some PRC as cast 225's. Maybe its not a fair comparison as the PRC's are about $600 more. I'm interested in lots of mid lift flow as opposed to only high lift peak flow.
What do you think, how much will I be leaving on the table with AI porting on the stockers?
Last edited by Rx7Rob; 12-01-2016 at 08:10 PM.
12-01-2016, 10:23 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
We need your hp goals and budget..... Tony M. is making an awesome set of street heads with major flow but might not be in the budget. Do a quick search.
12-05-2016, 04:28 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
THe Ai head is where I'd go, the smaller port will make power a little lower in the band with the right cam.
Ai's 243 CNC port is no joke, for a track car look at average power and torque when surfing dyno sheets.
Keep in mind that because a port is bigger as cast does not mean it will flow more air than a CNC smaller port.
Ai's 243 CNC port is no joke, for a track car look at average power and torque when surfing dyno sheets.
Keep in mind that because a port is bigger as cast does not mean it will flow more air than a CNC smaller port.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 12-05-2016 at 04:31 PM.
12-06-2016, 07:36 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
Unfortunately my car has 853's. I emailed with AI and I'll be leaving some power on the table with those vs 243's. So add in the cost of used heads, AI porting, valves, springs, .... and I'm getting close to the cost of some aftermarket castings.
For some reason I dislike the TFS website for comparing their various heads but need to look into their offerings. BTR offers them with powder metal guides so I can stay with the stock rockers. I'll contact them tomorrow.
Yup, Mamo seems to make some fantastic stuff but outside my budget. Even the 223's (especially with adding Ti retainers). But not offered with powder metal guides. Now if he'll only provide the secret decoder ring for his list of head flow data (and update it with his new heads and the PRC225's)!
I'm trying to stay UNDER $2k for the heads. TSP PRC225's with hollow intake valves is $1850. Hollow valves probably are not a necessity for me (but wouldn't hurt). My car is a 2000 so that means weaker rod bolts so I won't be revving beyond the factory redline (even though it is pushed up slightly in the tune).
FFBoy, yup, mid lift flow and high velocity are what I want (I need to look through your build thread again). 225's seem too big to me. I'm sure Tony's are on the money but wonder if the 223's have the same throttle response as the 220's.
Car only see's on the order of 1k - 2k miles / year and about 4 days of HPDE. I hope to at least double the number of HPDE's starting next year.
Been reading up on lifters as well .... but I'll save that for another thread.
Do all the aftermarket heads make use of both steam crossover pipes?
For some reason I dislike the TFS website for comparing their various heads but need to look into their offerings. BTR offers them with powder metal guides so I can stay with the stock rockers. I'll contact them tomorrow.
Yup, Mamo seems to make some fantastic stuff but outside my budget. Even the 223's (especially with adding Ti retainers). But not offered with powder metal guides. Now if he'll only provide the secret decoder ring for his list of head flow data (and update it with his new heads and the PRC225's)!
I'm trying to stay UNDER $2k for the heads. TSP PRC225's with hollow intake valves is $1850. Hollow valves probably are not a necessity for me (but wouldn't hurt). My car is a 2000 so that means weaker rod bolts so I won't be revving beyond the factory redline (even though it is pushed up slightly in the tune).
FFBoy, yup, mid lift flow and high velocity are what I want (I need to look through your build thread again). 225's seem too big to me. I'm sure Tony's are on the money but wonder if the 223's have the same throttle response as the 220's.
Car only see's on the order of 1k - 2k miles / year and about 4 days of HPDE. I hope to at least double the number of HPDE's starting next year.
Been reading up on lifters as well .... but I'll save that for another thread.
Do all the aftermarket heads make use of both steam crossover pipes?
12-06-2016, 08:01 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Unfortunately my car has 853's. I emailed with AI and I'll be leaving some power on the table with those vs 243's. So add in the cost of used heads, AI porting, valves, springs, .... and I'm getting close to the cost of some aftermarket castings.
For some reason I dislike the TFS website for comparing their various heads but need to look into their offerings. BTR offers them with powder metal guides so I can stay with the stock rockers. I'll contact them tomorrow.
Yup, Mamo seems to make some fantastic stuff but outside my budget. Even the 223's (especially with adding Ti retainers). But not offered with powder metal guides. Now if he'll only provide the secret decoder ring for his list of head flow data (and update it with his new heads and the PRC225's)!
I'm trying to stay UNDER $2k for the heads. TSP PRC225's with hollow intake valves is $1850. Hollow valves probably are not a necessity for me (but wouldn't hurt). My car is a 2000 so that means weaker rod bolts so I won't be revving beyond the factory redline (even though it is pushed up slightly in the tune).
FFBoy, yup, mid lift flow and high velocity are what I want (I need to look through your build thread again). 225's seem too big to me. I'm sure Tony's are on the money but wonder if the 223's have the same throttle response as the 220's.
Car only see's on the order of 1k - 2k miles / year and about 4 days of HPDE. I hope to at least double the number of HPDE's starting next year.
Been reading up on lifters as well .... but I'll save that for another thread.
Do all the aftermarket heads make use of both steam crossover pipes?
For some reason I dislike the TFS website for comparing their various heads but need to look into their offerings. BTR offers them with powder metal guides so I can stay with the stock rockers. I'll contact them tomorrow.
Yup, Mamo seems to make some fantastic stuff but outside my budget. Even the 223's (especially with adding Ti retainers). But not offered with powder metal guides. Now if he'll only provide the secret decoder ring for his list of head flow data (and update it with his new heads and the PRC225's)!
I'm trying to stay UNDER $2k for the heads. TSP PRC225's with hollow intake valves is $1850. Hollow valves probably are not a necessity for me (but wouldn't hurt). My car is a 2000 so that means weaker rod bolts so I won't be revving beyond the factory redline (even though it is pushed up slightly in the tune).
FFBoy, yup, mid lift flow and high velocity are what I want (I need to look through your build thread again). 225's seem too big to me. I'm sure Tony's are on the money but wonder if the 223's have the same throttle response as the 220's.
Car only see's on the order of 1k - 2k miles / year and about 4 days of HPDE. I hope to at least double the number of HPDE's starting next year.
Been reading up on lifters as well .... but I'll save that for another thread.
Do all the aftermarket heads make use of both steam crossover pipes?
Yes on the steam crossover
I want to keep my power band and revs down although I did put Eagle I beam rods in my engine, for a little over $300 it was a no brainer.
Please call Bret Bauer at Bauer race engines for a cam, he spec'd one for me for stock heads to shift at 6K rpms. He says it should make 420whp no problem with stock heads and intake.
My buddy and I built a 346 engine for his Fbody track car, had TFS 215 as cast with a little hand clean up, FAST 90/92, Z06 MAF and I ported the FAST. Cam was a 236/242 kinda deal on a 112.
It made 462/430 or close to that, ran like a bat outta hell in a 3200lb Fbody.
You can search this site for used 243-799 heads on used trucks for cheap if you know what years they come on.
http://car-part.com/
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 12-06-2016 at 08:04 PM.
12-07-2016, 07:23 AM
#7
Team Owner
My 2009 Silverado had 243's, which I believe were the first or second year. I would look for a used set. Have a friend who bought a used set of Z06 243's many years ago with very low miles, can't get him to part with them though.
12-08-2016, 06:14 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
Stock lifters have 30kmi. I guess it depends on what I find when I get it apart. If a lifter is toast, I'll have to replace them all. I don't think that model lifter is still available (isn't the LS7 sold as the stock replacement). I've read there are problems with the LS7 lifter when used with high pressure springs. If I find a lifter had rotated that will lead me to consider a link-bar lifter.
Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.
Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.
How many miles on your stock lifters? If not many and they are in good shape, use them.
Yes on the steam crossover
I want to keep my power band and revs down although I did put Eagle I beam rods in my engine, for a little over $300 it was a no brainer.
Please call Bret Bauer at Bauer race engines for a cam, he spec'd one for me for stock heads to shift at 6K rpms. He says it should make 420whp no problem with stock heads and intake.
My buddy and I built a 346 engine for his Fbody track car, had TFS 215 as cast with a little hand clean up, FAST 90/92, Z06 MAF and I ported the FAST. Cam was a 236/242 kinda deal on a 112.
It made 462/430 or close to that, ran like a bat outta hell in a 3200lb Fbody.
You can search this site for used 243-799 heads on used trucks for cheap if you know what years they come on.
http://car-part.com/
Yes on the steam crossover
I want to keep my power band and revs down although I did put Eagle I beam rods in my engine, for a little over $300 it was a no brainer.
Please call Bret Bauer at Bauer race engines for a cam, he spec'd one for me for stock heads to shift at 6K rpms. He says it should make 420whp no problem with stock heads and intake.
My buddy and I built a 346 engine for his Fbody track car, had TFS 215 as cast with a little hand clean up, FAST 90/92, Z06 MAF and I ported the FAST. Cam was a 236/242 kinda deal on a 112.
It made 462/430 or close to that, ran like a bat outta hell in a 3200lb Fbody.
You can search this site for used 243-799 heads on used trucks for cheap if you know what years they come on.
http://car-part.com/
12-10-2016, 06:12 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Probably won't get a chance to actually start taking the motor apart to see what happened until Jan.
Hey Bob, what did your analysis show for 3/8" pushrods (hopefully that will fit in the TFS). Is .080 good enough or should I go up to something like a .120 wall?
12-10-2016, 06:57 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
Yeah, its looking more likely to be TFS. Hopefully I'll get in touch with BTR on Monday to talk about it.
Probably won't get a chance to actually start taking the motor apart to see what happened until Jan.
Hey Bob, what did your analysis show for 3/8" pushrods (hopefully that will fit in the TFS). Is .080 good enough or should I go up to something like a .120 wall?
Probably won't get a chance to actually start taking the motor apart to see what happened until Jan.
Hey Bob, what did your analysis show for 3/8" pushrods (hopefully that will fit in the TFS). Is .080 good enough or should I go up to something like a .120 wall?
12-12-2016, 04:39 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
It looks like they had problems with the original "twisted wedge" heads. Then there were issues with people using stock rockers with the bronze guides.