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Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50

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Old 03-19-2003, 11:29 AM
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chuckster
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Default Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50

I have decided not to use 5w30 anymore. I really think it is too low for Florida driving. I am tossed between 10w40 and 15w50

Lingenfelter uses 15w50 in all their cars... I live in Florida so cold temps mean nothing..

I am thinking the 15w50 will help eliminate the actual blowby past the rings. I do have oil conumption but it is very low. I just don't want the carbon builup on my pistons...
Old 03-19-2003, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

If anything, use 10w30 or (at most) 10w40. The 15w50 that Lingenfelter uses is meant for the specific tolerances that he uses in the engines he builds, which are different than that of our stock LS1 short block.....
Old 03-19-2003, 12:05 PM
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kp
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

Oops, I meant to vote for 10w40 :)
I have the 15w50 in my car now, I tried it to see if it would quiet the valvetrain but it turned to be my oil pump o-ring. Anyhow, I had the car on the dyno the other day and at 6400 rpm I was pinning the oil pressure guage with a new stock pump with the oil temp at 199 degrees. A bit much and a waste of a few horsepower :D

I do seem to be getting less oil in the catch can though, cold startup pressure is about the same as the 10w40 (~60 degrees in my garage). It may be of some benefit when its 100 here though. I usually use about a quart every 3000 miles so I'll see what happens in another 2600 miles :cheers:
Old 03-19-2003, 12:53 PM
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01C5fan
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

I started using 15w50 at HPDEs and never went back. Cut down on the blow by problem.
Old 03-19-2003, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (OliverM5)

I totally agree with you OlicerM5. We often forget to take into account who the engine was designed by. A stock motor that does not have the high performance internal modifications can not be treated asone that does have these modifications.
Old 03-19-2003, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (OliverM5)

If anything, use 10w30 or (at most) 10w40. The 15w50 that Lingenfelter uses is meant for the specific tolerances that he uses in the engines he builds, which are different than that of our stock LS1 short block.....
No, this is not true. LPE fills every motor that leaves the facility with 15w50. Even if you go in for just a magnusen S/C
Old 03-19-2003, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (Lil Red)

We often forget to take into account who the engine was designed by. A stock motor that does not have the high performance internal modifications can not be treated asone that does have these modifications.
Our motors are not as close tolerance as we'd like to think. If they were we never see half the excessive oil consumption we do. The LS1 and LS6 is a "HIGH PERFORMANCE" motor. I have not yet heard a single bad thing about using 15w50... :confused:
Old 03-19-2003, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

I don't think any of these oils will hurt your engine, and it's likely the heavier oils will reduce consumption somewhat. However, if you're still in warranty, I would suggest only using 5w-30 or 10w-30. Otherwise you risk a warranty denial in the unlikely event of a lubrication-related engine failure. In those cases GM may ask for proof of oil changes, and might use the wrong oil as an excuse to deny coverage.
Old 03-19-2003, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

I have not yet heard a single bad thing about using 15w50... :confused:
You seem to have made up your mind already for this subject. Why bother with the poll? :confused:
Old 03-19-2003, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

I personal like the Mobil 1 0w30. It seems to have really no affect on my oil pressure and I know it's really good for hi temp in the day and cold at night. I know guys who race circle track and use 0w30 when they drive at night. I forgot to add I use it in all my cars and my daily driver is at 120,000 miles and I don't use oil yet. :steering:


[Modified by extremecorvette, 2:07 PM 3/19/2003]
Old 03-19-2003, 03:10 PM
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chuckster
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (extremecorvette)

I personal like the Mobil 1 0w30. It seems to have really no affect on my oil pressure and I know it's really good for hi temp in the day and cold at night. I know guys who race circle track and use 0w30 when they drive at night.

That makes no sense at all to me...

The 1st number (0, 5, 10 whatever) is a cold weight .. That only lasts for what ??? 5 minutes..Then the oil becomes the 2nd weight ...
If you are driving all night then the oil is HOT all night... There would be no difference between 0w-30 or 5w-30 or 10w-30... 30 is 30....
Old 03-19-2003, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (OliverM5)

I'm sorry Oliver. I don't mean to come off like a a jerk here. :)

I am just trying to get the facts separated from conjecture :D

Actually I have not made my mind up. The only thing I have truely decided is that I am NOT using 5w-30 anymore.. I got a "LOW OIL" light when I had 25% on the DIC... My motor was designed to burn gasoline, not oil like a diesel...

I am sure there are real benefits to both the 10w40 and the 15w50...
But if it turns out that that there is a gas mileage penalty in exchange for better protection and consumption...Screw the mileage.. :smash:
My car is not a daily driver so who cares....
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Old 03-19-2003, 06:20 PM
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WhiteC5Vette
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

If an oil is designated as multiviscosity, it is tested at hot and cold temperatures. A multiviscosity oil contains a viscosity index improver or polymers to change the viscosity of the oil as the temperature changes.
The first number indicates how the oil functions at low temperatures, while the second number indicates how the oil functions at high temperatures.

(The "W" indicates the oil thickness was measured at a very low temperature of about -35 degrees Fahrenheit. Without the "W" the oil thickness was measured when the oil temp was at 210 degrees Fahrenheit.)

There have been an inordinate amount of expensive testing done by all the major car manufacturers (yes, even GM which has one of the largest Oil/Fuel Labs in the world), oil companies, research firms, US Government for military applications and NASA to name a few, have found that there is no difference between a 0W/5W/10W-30 oil at normal operating temperatures; however, at low temperatures there is a big difference.

From these studies it has been concluded that if you live in the desert year round, or in Minnesota, 5W-30 is as good as 10W-30 for normal engine operating conditions. The 5W does allow, even in warm climates, for your oil to reach the top end of the engine faster during startup, which does decrease engine wear.

A 50W oil will not seep between the rings as easy as a 30W oil, thus it will not be burned off as fast. However, as it will not seep as easily by the rings, it will not flow through the bearings as well.

GM recommends 5W-30 for the Vette, and states you can use 10W-30, if temperatures are above a certain range; however, they still recommend 5W-30.

From the owner's manual:

Notice
If you use oils that don't have the GM4718M Standard designation, you can cause engine damage not covered by your warranty. (I believe only 5W and 10W oils have this designation.)

SAE 5W-30 As shown in the viscosity chart, SAE 5W-30 is best for your vehicle. However, you can use SAE 10W-30 if it's going to be 0°F (-18°C) or above. These numbers on an oil container show its viscosity, or thickness. Do not use other viscosity oils such as SAE 20W-50.

Use of oil that does not meet GM specs WILL allow GM to void your warranty on parts that fail due to improper lubrication, and it takes them only one-day to have your oil analyzed (FedEx overnight to Milford, MI or to GM Tech Center). Once the oil is proved to be the culprit, an independent lab will analyze the oil for further documentation.

If the engine has been modified by Lingenfelter, you don't have to worry about a GM factory warranty any longer.


[Modified by WhiteC5Vette, 5:21 PM 3/19/2003]
Old 03-19-2003, 07:12 PM
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rgregory
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

I use 10w30 mobil 1 in mine but think I will go thicker for the track next time. The last track day I ran I saw oil temp of 270+ degrees and the oil pressure dropped quite a bit. I think the max pressure dropped to almost 30 at higher rpm and this was on a fresh oil change.

The number one reason GM uses thin oil is fuel economy. People may arque that a 0 or 5w30 oil will flow to the engine components faster and thus better. From my experience using 20w50 in my big block Camaro and other cars on teardown that oil is thick enough that it is all over the bearings and every other engine part....protecting it at startup. Which is better???? I sure don't know but I do like having oil all over the surfaces at startup.

Also the actual rating numbers don't mean a whole lot. The two numbers are just the slope of the oils viscosity curve at two points. It tells you nothing about how it reacts at temperatures in between, below and above and it is not a linear curve. I have a book here somewhere that shows some oil viscosity charts, need to find it.
Old 03-19-2003, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (rgregory)

a all aluminum engine block has very tight clearance on the mains because the clearance increases as the temp comes up. using lighter oil will help the oil flow better when it is cold. all aluminum race engines such as the C5R use engine heaters to warm up the engines before starting. the first ZR-1 engines has cam bearing trouble on start up in cold weather till GM change the oil weight because the thicker oil took too long to get to the camshaft bearings. :chevy
Old 03-19-2003, 08:40 PM
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CJS
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (clem zahrobsky)

Good thread! I had a 1000 per Qt 2001 vette oil burner. I used 5/30, 10/30 and 15/50 to try to stop the burning. It did not help one little bit. They all burned the same amount!
If 10 weight is ok at 0 degrees, then I would think 15 weight would be ok for 40 degrees and above, like it is where I live. I drive hard for long periods of time and the heavier oil will protect a little better I think. There is a slight disadvantage to the 15 weight on initial start up, but that is very little in a warm climate. And restarts after the engine is warm is also no problem.
GM just wants the 5 weight for fuel economy reasons.
Old 03-19-2003, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

For what it's worth, a well known driving school in Nevada teaches in stock Corvettes and they use Mobil 1 15w50.

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Old 03-19-2003, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (01C5fan)

Do they still make 90 weight STP...sounds like the cure to me. :smash:
Old 03-19-2003, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (chuckster)

FWIW, found this somewhere...

The opinion of a book author on engine oil.

....Two things are at work here. The temperature issue impacts both the engine AND the oil. Getting an engine up to those kinds of temperatures can, over time, affect engine components themselves, independent of what the oil is doing. Just the temperature alone is more than most engines can handle on a regular basis.

Normal engine operating temperature for most engines is between 210 and 250 degrees. Granted, corvettes are designed to be driven fast and hard, to a certain extent, but pumping the temps up to such extremes will be rough on a Corvette engine too. Again, an engine can fail even if the oil is still "doing its thing", if components get too hot too frequently.

But, the temperature, as we both know, also affects the oil. The higher the temperature, the more quickly the oil will break down/sheer back/burn-off/etc. Viscosity retention is an issue that is affected in two ways by temperature increases. First, high temperature alone can cause temporary viscosity decreases in an oil if the viscosity index of the oil is not very high. Any temporary drop in viscosity has the potential for allowing metal to metal contact within an engine.

In addition, over time, high temperature and stress can cause the oil to have a permanent viscosity loss due to sheering. So, a 20w50 might shear back to more like a 20w40 or 20w30. The same could happen to other grades. The lower the viscosity, the lower the film strength (in a general sense) and the more chance for metal to metal contact.

An oil cooler is not a bad idea at all, as it will serve not only to prolong the life of the oil, but will also prolong the life of
engine components by keeping them cool, not to mention helping to maintain the film strength of the oil which prevents engine wear.

Secondarily, it might seem that it would also be a good idea to stick to as heavy a weight oil as you can, and hope it maintains that viscosity, but that's not necessarily right. There is a certain point at which, going heavier will only increase engine temperatures more by increasing INTERNAL friction within the oil itself. That is definitely NOT a benefit.

GM recommends 5w30 and 10w30 oils in basically ALL it's engines dating back to 92, including corvettes. Now, I know that many of these engines may be modified in certain ways, but oil galleries are likely to be the same or similar to the factory specs. As such, these galleries are designed for a specific weight of oil, or at least a specific range.

So, I wouldn't go over 10w40 in these Corvettes, no matter how much you feel like the 20w50 is going to "protect better". It's not a good idea. If you want more protection, look for a better oil, not a higher grade.

As an example, I know guys that have used just about any viscosity of any oil out there and were seeing failures. They
switched to AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30 and failures stopped and performance increased. These are guys racing in southern Texas, California, Arizona, etc. So, the weight of the oil is not necessarily the determining factor in how well the oil will protect. I've seen engine temperatures drop by 20 to 50 degrees F, using this oil. That is a HUGE drop. As much or more than an oil cooler might give.

Look for good specs in a weight close to what is recommended by the manufacturer. Pay special attention to HT/HS scores, NOACK, Flashpoint, VI and Four Ball, if available.

You want the HT/HS, Flash and VI to be as high as possible. NOACK and Four Ball as low as possible. Find an oil that fits that bill, and you've got an excellent oil. But, don't discount an oil just because one or two of those numbers aren't as "good" as you want. You want a whole package.

For instance, a good VI is important, but remember that this is not a spec that gives you a full picture. Some oils may start with a high VI, but this VI quickly decreases with use. Other oils start with a slightly lower VI, but maintain that VI for a very long time. That is because some oil manufacturers (petroleum and synthetic) PROP UP their VI numbers with viscosity modifiers. Other manufacturers use better quality basestocks so they don't have to. Those that are propped, quickly become UNpropped. That's a bad thing.

So, just be aware of what you're looking for in an oil and do whatever you can to keep engine temperatures as close to 250 as you can. You may not get there, but the lower you can go, the better off you'll be.

Best regards,
Michael Kaufman
Motor Oil Bible Author
Old 03-19-2003, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Changing the Oil Mobile 1 10w40 or 15w50 (TooManyIDs)

What is it you are trying to fix? Only the 01's with the different rings burned oil. I'd stick with the factory recommended oil. Say what you want, but those guys are still smarter than we are.


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